Maatta/Niskannen Best 3rd Pair In the League?

billybudd

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Feb 1, 2012
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And now it's another referendum/hatefest on Letang....

What about the thing that's actually working folks - you know - the two that right now are maybe the best 3rd pair in the NHL!

I'm not familiar enough with all 60-ish of the 5/6 D for every team and how they play together to really comment on that.

I will say our third pairing is complete overkill for a third pairing (and I mean that in a good way).
 

IcedCapp

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Aug 7, 2009
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And that's how a lot of young players get their confidence crushed, end up regressing and having a lot longer development cureve as a result. Think guys like Niskannen, and Jones right now in Nashville.

Have we forgot the slump Maatta went into after having to play first pairing minutes while the top 4 was down?

Thankfully, guys started coming back right when he fell off so the dip was short for him.

You mean he went into a slump, got demoted, and came back even better?

OH NO, sounds like putting too much on his plate really crushed him!

Niskanen wasn't ruined in Dallas because he was given too much. He was ruined in Dallas because he wasn't handled properly after he failed to handle what he was given.
 

radapex

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Sep 21, 2012
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Pens at Kings: Breakout season for Niskanen

"It's a good situation to be in, really," said Niskanen of his pending UFA status. "I'll let my agent take care of that stuff. But for now, I'm just focusing on the season. Certainly, I like it here a lot, I think I fit well here. I'd like to stay as long as I can. But there's more to it than that, I understand that. Pittsburgh has several good young defensemen prospects, so who would argue if they want to go that route. It's a matter of what they want to do. I'll just play as best I can, I'll be thrilled to stay on but if not, we'll see what happens."

It's nice to see Niskanen taking a realistic approach to the season. He'd like to stay but realizes that the organization is loaded with good defensive prospects, so all he can do is play his game and let the chips fall where they may.
 

IcedCapp

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I also find it a bit discouraging that one of the Penguins coaches (can't remember, think it was Reirden, but wouldn't bet on it) was quoted as saying if they play well enough, Maatta/Niskanen would be given more time.

Yet Green Eggs and Ham get 23+ minutes a night.
 

Shady Machine

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Aug 6, 2010
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Awesome article. Niskanen seems like a really good dude. I am definitely open to keeping him around next year. The issue though is will he want to play a 3rd pairing role and will the Pens want to pay 4+ mil for a 3rd pairing dman?

I still think the best long term situation for the Penguins is to move Letang for the dynamic right winger for Sid, sign Nisky and roll with:

Maatta-Martin
Scuderi-Niskanen
Despres-Bortuzzo
 

mpp9

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Dec 5, 2010
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I also find it a bit discouraging that one of the Penguins coaches (can't remember, think it was Reirden, but wouldn't bet on it) was quoted as saying if they play well enough, Maatta/Niskanen would be given more time.

Yet Green Eggs and Ham get 23+ minutes a night.

Why would that be discouraging? Most teams rely on their top 4 for a lion's share of the minutes. A coach saying that is a step in the right direction. Especially if Orpik's here to stay. If you're not going to trade him, then at least create a scenario where you're willing to limit his minutes by giving them to better players.
 

IcedCapp

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Why would that be discouraging? Most teams rely on their top 4 for a lion's share of the minutes. A coach saying that is a step in the right direction. Especially if Orpik's here to stay. If you're not going to trade him, then at least create a scenario where you're willing to limit his minutes by giving them to better players.

because since saying that, Maatta/Niskanen has been the best, most-consistent pair, and they've gotten less time?

I dunno?

Words are easy, actions are hard.
 

mpp9

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Dec 5, 2010
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because since saying that, Maatta/Niskanen has been the best, most-consistent pair, and they've gotten less time?

I dunno?

Words are easy, actions are hard.

I don't think their minutes have been that far off from Brooks'. Especially in games where we're not shorthanded alot.

I think Nisky played more in the Dallas game. And Maatta about the same.

Coaching staff likes Nisky. And they obviously have shown to be willing to throw Maatta out there even if he's not playing his best.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Apr 13, 2010
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If Letang was to move to wing, making 7.25 mil a year then he'd better score 35-40 goals a year. Not happening. He won't be traded and he will not be moving to wing.
 

billybudd

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Feb 1, 2012
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Pens at Kings: Breakout season for Niskanen



It's nice to see Niskanen taking a realistic approach to the season. He'd like to stay but realizes that the organization is loaded with good defensive prospects, so all he can do is play his game and let the chips fall where they may.

Ugh.

Great to see Niskanen getting credit, but when national media starts writing articles like this about a pending UFA, their pricetag skyrockets, which doesn't bode well for keeping the guy.

MacTavish is gonna offer this guy 6.5 million per year over 7, you watch.
 

Hagged

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Jul 6, 2009
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because since saying that, Maatta/Niskanen has been the best, most-consistent pair, and they've gotten less time?

I dunno?

Words are easy, actions are hard.

The problem with Maatta is he can't take the minutes and keep up his play. It was obvious in December when Maatta-Niskanen had over 28 minutes of TOI. I think Maatta is kind of holding down Niskanen's minutes, but that makes them even better "3rd pairing". They play 3rd pairing minutes and really play through them without coasting a single shift. I'd venture a guess that has helped Niskanen in the +/- category.

Maatta is still young. There are only a couple of younger D who get more minutes than him. And those who do, don't do any better on the ice on those extra minutes than Maatta.
 

IcedCapp

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Aug 7, 2009
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The problem with Maatta is he can't take the minutes and keep up his play. It was obvious in December when Maatta-Niskanen had over 28 minutes of TOI. I think Maatta is kind of holding down Niskanen's minutes, but that makes them even better "3rd pairing". They play 3rd pairing minutes and really play through them without coasting a single shift. I'd venture a guess that has helped Niskanen in the +/- category.

Maatta is still young. There are only a couple of younger D who get more minutes than him. And those who do, don't do any better on the ice on those extra minutes than Maatta.

I disagree. Maatta was fine taking the minutes UNTIL people actually came back. He never looked out of place (he made mistakes and was getting walked, but neither were, imo, a product of TOI). He fell off a cliff against the Devils? Or the game before the Devils. And was a healthy scratch. But that was AFTER his minutes were reduced.

I'm sure he gets fatigued, and I'm not suggesting he plays 25-30 minutes a night, but Niskanen and Maatta should be playing more than Free Turnovers and Eggs Malone.
 

Honour Over Glory

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Jan 30, 2012
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Pens at Kings: Breakout season for Niskanen



It's nice to see Niskanen taking a realistic approach to the season. He'd like to stay but realizes that the organization is loaded with good defensive prospects, so all he can do is play his game and let the chips fall where they may.

He's such a grounded guy and he took on the leadership role with the rookies like it was no big deal, he's a better leader than Orpik, hate me for saying that all anyone wants.
 

Sidney the Kidney

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Jun 29, 2009
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Keep that man here Ray.

Is it possible Nisky would price himself out of town? When you look at the season he's having, is it impossible to think he could very well get a Matt Carle-type contract on the open market from a team desperate for defensemen? Carle had more of a track record in terms of production, but he also played with Pronger. Niskanen's largely producing at a 40+ point pace without that kind of support.

Honestly, I'd love to keep Nisky around. I'm leaning more and more toward using Letang as a trade chip to land a top six winger and having Niskanen retained in his spot (for less money). But I've yet to see a single indication that the club feels similarly.
 

jmelm

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Pens at Kings: Breakout season for Niskanen

It's nice to see Niskanen taking a realistic approach to the season. He'd like to stay but realizes that the organization is loaded with good defensive prospects, so all he can do is play his game and let the chips fall where they may.

Agreed. And the fact that he wants to stay should indicate that he would be willing to take a hometown discount. And as long as we give him only a partial NTC, I think it would be smart as hell to re-sign him; particularly with all the other assets we have pissed away. The way he's going, he's only going to get better and better over the next 2-4 seasons, which is exactly the time when Pouiot will really be knocking on the door, and possibly when Martin may start to slow down (if it was those 2 we kept and not Letang). Signing him is a no-brainer.


Awesome article. Niskanen seems like a really good dude. I am definitely open to keeping him around next year. The issue though is will he want to play a 3rd pairing role and will the Pens want to pay 4+ mil for a 3rd pairing dman?

Well, I would rather roll the dice and keep Nisky at $4-4.5 million per year as long as it's not a full NTC, because we could always trade him in 2-4 years. But keeping him would virtually be essential if we either traded Letang, or lost Martin to UFA.

If we signed Nisky to that money, and extended Sutter for a long term deal in the same range, we would have about $2 million to play with. This is not enough money to get a Vanek/Cammalleri/etc., though if we somehow signed Vanek, we could then trade one of Nisky/Letang/Martin/Scuderi to make up space. If it was Letang, the package of young players and futures we would get would be insane.

But that is enough money to give a guy like Setoguchi or Kulemin a whirl: two guys who would probably want a short-term, inexpensive deal to re-gain their best performance and prove they deserve more. No better way to do that than on this team with the centres we have.

AND...if we were to pull off the type of trade I would like to pull off for a top-end young winger (Coyle/Niedereiter/Silfverberg/Brock Nelson/etc.), it's possible we could fill that RW need for a (future) star-caliber winger without breaking the bank and fitting within that sub $2 to $2.5 million cap space.

So while it's not a guarantee it would be the best move, it's worth the risk, and there's nothing that says we could't trade another player to give us that cap room if we really need it. I think the risk is WELL worth taking.


He's such a grounded guy and he took on the leadership role with the rookies like it was no big deal, he's a better leader than Orpik, hate me for saying that all anyone wants.

You took the words out of my mouth with the bolded. Orpik is a great leader, but for different reasons, and his leadership alone is not enough to keep him on this team (though it definitely helps his value if we trade him before the deadline, or even to trade his rights for whatever at the draft). But Nisky is a great guy who has good insights and no just the cookie-cutter talk. And we love to have guys who love being here. He is loved by his teammates and fits in well into the locker room, which just further justifies the idea to extend him.
 

ObsessedCreative*

Registered User
I wouldn't mind pairing Olli with Letang and Scuds with Nisky.

Scuds and Nisky can keep it simple. And having Maatta with him forces Letang to play smart while giving Maatta a look at his potential longterm partner.

I'd definitely do it if Scuds/Letang continue to look like ass.

As for the OP, yeah, that's a hell of a luxury to have on your third pairing. A top rookie D-man and a guy who's leading the league in plus/minus.

Everyone looks like ass with Letang, plain and simple. Perhaps if we had a coach who didn't give him free reign to be a 4th forward / Harlem globetrotter 24/7 he would at least be half the D-man we all know he is capable of.

There is no accountability on this team with the good ole we are family vets...
 

#66

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Dec 30, 2003
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The Letang hate is incredibly frustrating sometimes. He hasn't played well this year, but it's borderline ridiculous when it gets to the point of preferring 2 guys who are essentially rookies (including one who has never experienced playoff hockey), a third pairing guy, and an inconsistent defensemen who is playing his first good season since his rookie year over a someone who at his best is a Norris candidate and a top 10 defensemen in the league.

I absolutely love Despres, Maatta and Bortuzzo. But I can't fathom putting any of them before Letang.
I can. Mostly because the kids are going to get coached rather than be given some kind of creative freedom to the degree that they hurt the team.

Letang and Orpik don't have the sense to be given such freedom. IMO Letang played his best hockey in the first half of '11. He played with in himself and did the things a Norris winner would do. He was part of an offensive team rather than forcing plays and displaying bad habits. Then Crosby and Malkin get hurt and he does a complete 180. He's never played like that first half a season again.

The strange thing about Letang is that any time you see him cheat he gets very little from it. He doesn't need to cheat offensively... yet he does and its becoming hard to watch.
 

Get To Our Game

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May 31, 2008
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I remember an interview when we had all the injuries and Niskanen was our #1 and he was saying the same type of thing, that he wanted to play his best and just focus on his game. He was asked about all the young defense in the system, and his answer was something like, 'Yeah, they're going to be here a lot longer than I am, and they're some special players', etc. etc. Made me almost feel bad for him because he really does seem to like it here and he's realistic about the potential lack of space for him. But if he keeps playing like this, he's going to have his options on where he wants to play and for how much.
 

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