Maatta/Niskannen Best 3rd Pair In the League?

[Gallatin]

Let's talk about something positive, something about the team that works, for once.

Ran into a thread on the main board today and it quickly became apparent that Maatta/Niskannen is likely the best 3rd pair in the League. We have not really discussed this as far as I can remember.

Boston's Krug/McQuade is in the discussion, but that seems about it.

Thoughts other than they shouldn't be the 3rd pair?

Click to read more...

 

[Fordy]

Uh I don't like those two as a pairing at all

 

[SEALBound]

Yes. But that's not saying much. Both of them are Top 4 capable.

 

[Gallatin]

Certainly it's not a physical pair, many of us would prefer Bortuzzo play with Olli no doubt. but it is an excellent puck moving duo none the less, and I can't really think of another 3 rd pairing the League that is better.

Niskannen has gotten to the point where he is a proven top 4 D, and Maatta is headed there himself rather quickly.

It's something to be excited about!

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Someone said Scuds has sucked and that he was good when he had a different partner, wasn't that "different partner" Matt Niskanen?

Nisky, me thinks, is severely underrated here. I would rather keep him over Letang and Orpik, call me crazy if you must.

I'd rather see this as the 2nd and 3rd pairing to be honest...


Scuderi, Niskanen
Maatta, Bortuzzo

To me, those work and they've shown to work.

 

[cygnus47]

I'd like to commit Scuds and Martin to shutdown work.

Orpik (wish it was Despres) - Niskanen
Maatta - Letang
Scuderi - Martin


As for whether they're the best third pair. Maybe? But our second pair (Orpik - Martin) is only playing like a 3rd.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'd like to commit Scuds and Martin to shutdown work.

Orpik (wish it was Despres) - Niskanen
Maatta - Letang
Scuderi - Martin


As for whether they're the best third pair. Maybe? But our second pair (Orpik - Martin) is only playing like a 3rd.

That's a misuse of Martin, if you want a shut down pair, a Scuderi-Bortuzzo pair would be a better idea than a Martin-Scuderi one.

I like a Despres, Martin pairing better as a top pair. As you can see, Letang and Orpik are not in the picture in my ideal defensive pairings.


Despres, Martin
Scuderi, Niskanen
Maatta, Bortuzzo

*aaaawwwwwww yeeeeaaahhh*

 

[Gallatin]

And of course - we can't be happy with something good. It's all about what could be better in our own opinions...

And my love/hate relationship with all of you continues. Why am I so addicted to this board?

 

[Waffle Fries]

That's a misuse of Martin, if you want a shut down pair, a Scuderi-Bortuzzo pair would be a better idea than a Martin-Scuderi one.

I like a Despres, Martin pairing better as a top pair. As you can see, Letang and Orpik are not in the picture in my ideal defensive pairings.


Despres, Martin
Scuderi, Niskanen
Maatta, Bortuzzo

*aaaawwwwwww yeeeeaaahhh*

I don't see how you could feel comfortable with that defense in the playoffs, but to each their own I guess.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I don't see how you could feel comfortable with that defense in the playoffs, but to each their own I guess.

Yeah, not enough turnovers would be made.

Definitely needs more Letang and Orpik, sometimes I forget, I'm sorry.

 

[Waffle Fries]

The Letang hate is incredibly frustrating sometimes. He hasn't played well this year, but it's borderline ridiculous when it gets to the point of preferring 2 guys who are essentially rookies (including one who has never experienced playoff hockey), a third pairing guy, and an inconsistent defensemen who is playing his first good season since his rookie year over a someone who at his best is a Norris candidate and a top 10 defensemen in the league.

I absolutely love Despres, Maatta and Bortuzzo. But I can't fathom putting any of them before Letang.

 

[tinkezione]

The Letang hate is incredibly frustrating sometimes. He hasn't played well this year, but it's borderline ridiculous when it gets to the point of preferring 2 guys who are essentially rookies (including one who has never experienced playoff hockey), a third pairing guy, and an inconsistent defensemen who is playing his first good season since his rookie year over a someone who at his best is a Norris candidate and a top 10 defensemen in the league.

I absolutely love Despres, Maatta and Bortuzzo. But I can't fathom putting any of them before Letang.

I'd classify that as Letang frustration instead of plain Letang hate. Everyone and their sisters know that Letang has all the talent in the world to be The Norris Guy, but he's making way too much stupid plays and arrogant mistakes he trusts he can correct with his athleticism. He'd need someone to really tell him how things are and what is expected of him when his 7.2 mil contract kicks in.

Currently, Letang has no business as a reliable top 4, let alone top pair.

EDIT: Not to be completely off-topic, I just concur with the assessment presented in the subject: we do have one of the best, if not the best 3rd pair in the league. Niskanen has frogleaped this season, Määttä is playing well above his expectations and both are top 4 caliber for sure.

 

[sf expat71]

Agree that niskanen is somewhat underrated here. But most of the hate stems from his decision making during the more physical playoffs. I would like to see him perform in an intense, physical series first before judging how improved he is. Thus far though, I think he has had a tremendous year, even holding his own playing top pairing minutes when we had all the injuries.

 

[Gallatin]

And now it's another referendum/hatefest on Letang....

What about the thing that's actually working folks - you know - the two that right now are maybe the best 3rd pair in the NHL!

 

[Speaking Moistly]

It's a really good 3rd pairing. I'm not a huge fan of the pairing, and who know what it will do in the playoffs, but it's come up big. It's a really talented 3rd pairing and I think that's carried it.

The Letang hate is incredibly frustrating sometimes. He hasn't played well this year, but it's borderline ridiculous when it gets to the point of preferring 2 guys who are essentially rookies (including one who has never experienced playoff hockey), a third pairing guy, and an inconsistent defensemen who is playing his first good season since his rookie year over a someone who at his best is a Norris candidate and a top 10 defensemen in the league.

I absolutely love Despres, Maatta and Bortuzzo. But I can't fathom putting any of them before Letang.

It's ridiculous that two rookies, a third pairing guy and an inconsistent defenseman consistently make better decisions than Letang. Letang is all body, his brain is regrettable and he's gotten that contract on playing questionable defense to begin with. Not to mention what the Norris trophy is based off of now. All of that recognition for the game he plays is dangerous, it's reinforcing a lot of bad habits.

The forward help Letang could bring with

Scuderi - Niskanen
Despres - Martin
Maatta - Bortuzzo

as the defense. ****, yeah, I would be so comfortable with that. It's not hate from me (frustration and being at the end of tolerating this situation), it's the belief that this team would be better without him. Letang is a great physical talent, but he'll never be smart and he most likely will never be consistent. I don't think he's needed, but a defense committed to defense is needed, an elite winger for Crosby is needed, better forward depth is needed. He's frustrating, but I don't hate him, he does good things, he has upside, he could improve; that doesn't mean he's what's best for this team. It's also a lot of money on a guy with a limited role, on a team with ridiculous defensive depth and better game breakers than him. He doesn't even act as their #1 defenseman and he shouldn't.

How often would you even expect Letang to be at his best? He will have bad stretches, he'll probably have more bad seasons like this one. He's getting consistency money and #1 defenseman money, he's neither of those things, not on this team. It's putting Crosby before Letang, too, Crosby having an elite top 6 winger is more important than Letang. Letang is great in a lot of ways, it's what makes him valuable.

 

[IcedCapp]

That's a misuse of Martin, if you want a shut down pair, a Scuderi-Bortuzzo pair would be a better idea than a Martin-Scuderi one.

I like a Despres, Martin pairing better as a top pair. As you can see, Letang and Orpik are not in the picture in my ideal defensive pairings.


Despres, Martin
Scuderi, Niskanen
Maatta, Bortuzzo

*aaaawwwwwww yeeeeaaahhh*

Martin is already on the shutdown pairing, so I guess you believe the coach is misusing him?

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

If people dont want Letang because of what he could bring back in a trade i get that, i dont agree with it but i get it. people who think he isnt good enough or smart enough etc are ridiculous. He is a top 10 defenseman in this league even with the turnovers.

In my pairings...

w/Orpik

Martin - Letang
Maata - Niskanen
Orpik - Scuderi

Orpik traded

Scuderi - Letang
Despres - Martin
Maata - Niskanen

 

[IcedCapp]

Niskanen/Maatta is probably the best 3rd pairing in the NHL, but I'm not sure that's necessarily a good thing.

I would make this imperfect analogy:

calling Maatta/Niskaken the best 3rd pairing in the NHL is like putting Sidney Crosby on the 3rd line and calling him the best 3rd-line center.

While neither Niskanen or Maatta are on, or near, the level of Sid, neither are they are 5th and 6th best defensemen. In fact, while I wouldn't play them together if I were the coach, if you look at the entire season, they are probably our two-best defensemen this year.

 

[Shady Machine]

Wow it took 5 posts for this thread to turn into "I'll ignore the OP's question and tell you what pairings I prefer". Yes the Maatta-Niskanen pairing is the best 3rd pairing in the NHL. They have both had great seasons.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Stuart - Braun is pretty tough to beat, and I haven't seen them play lately but Morris - Runblad ain't too shabby. But Maatta doesn't belong near the 3rd pair, as already mentioned. However to stay positive I will say that we are most fortunate to have a two-way rookie defenseman who does not play like a rookie defenseman most nights.

I'm going to start invoking his name more.

"That play was straight up Olli."

"Between Olli and nothing... I choose Olli."

 

[Gallatin]

Guess I am in the minority feeling Maatta the rookie is best served playing on the 3rd pair this season. If he does not regress next season, which most 2nd year players do, then move him up.

Unless we trade a vet (unlikely) I am comfortable with those two playing together. If round 1 comes, and Orpik/Letang are still playing poorly, then I want to see a move. Our two whipping boys both have a history of stepping it up in the playoffs. Lot of folks seem to forget that.

 

[IcedCapp]

Guess I am in the minority feeling Maatta the rookie is best served playing on the 3rd pair this season. If he does not regress next season, which most 2nd year players do, then move him up.

Unless we trade a vet (unlikely) I am comfortable with those two playing together. If round 1 comes, and Orpik/Letang are still playing poorly, then I want to see a move. Our two whipping boys both have a history of stepping it up in the playoffs. Lot of folks seem to forget that.

I'm not a fan of creating artificial ceilings for people (in all walks of life). Give him all he can handle until he proves he can't handle it. Clearly, he can handle his current role. If he can do more, why not let him?

 

[Gallatin]

Stuart - Braun is pretty tough to beat, and I haven't seen them play lately but Morris - Runblad ain't too shabby. But Maatta doesn't belong near the 3rd pair, as already mentioned. However to stay positive I will say that we are most fortunate to have a two-way rookie defenseman who does not play like a rookie defenseman most nights.

I'm going to start invoking his name more.

"That play was straight up Olli."

"Between Olli and nothing... I choose Olli."

Nice GIF Darth. Thanx for the POSITIVITY.

 

[mpp9]

I wouldn't mind pairing Olli with Letang and Scuds with Nisky.

Scuds and Nisky can keep it simple. And having Maatta with him forces Letang to play smart while giving Maatta a look at his potential longterm partner.

I'd definitely do it if Scuds/Letang continue to look like ass.

As for the OP, yeah, that's a hell of a luxury to have on your third pairing. A top rookie D-man and a guy who's leading the league in plus/minus.

 

[Gallatin]

I'm not a fan of creating artificial ceilings for people (in all walks of life). Give him all he can handle until he proves he can't handle it. Clearly, he can handle his current role. If he can do more, why not let him?

And that's how a lot of young players get their confidence crushed, end up regressing and having a lot longer development curve as a result. Think guys like Niskannen, and Jones right now in Nashville.

Have we forgot the slump Maatta went into after having to play first pairing minutes while the top 4 was down?

Thankfully, guys started coming back right when he fell off so the dip was short for him.