Proposal: Luca Sbisa to Ottawa

[Ducksforcup]

Probably a second or third round pick would get it done.

Ducks have a huge logjam on defense...some people need to be moved.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

I've said it before but it bears repeating...with Souray likely done for good and with Allen being older and having only one year left, Sbisa is the kind of young, physical D we would want if we didn't already have him. Yes, he could stand to improve his game but you don't just give away players like him.

The irrational hate on Sbisa is mainly directed by those who want to open up a job for Sami. A job that Sami has yet to earn with his play.

 

[TheJoeMan]

I've said it before but it bears repeating...with Souray likely done for good and with Allen being older and having only one year left, Sbisa is the kind of young, physical D we would want if we didn't already have him. Yes, he could stand to improve his game but you don't just give away players like him.

The irrational hate on Sbisa is mainly directed by those who want to open up a job for Sami. A job that Sami has yet to earn with his play.

The hate for Sbisa is absolutely rational. I would love for Sbisa to be the player we all thought he could be. I just don't think he will. And Vatanen has nothing to do with this. They're completely different kinds of d-men. I do want the physical d-man that we want Sbisa to be as well. I would rather find him elsewhere because Sbisa just does not have the mental fortitude to do the job. In my opinion Fistric makes Sbisa redundant.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Cowen-Karlsson
Methot-Ceci
Wiercioch-Phillips
Borowiecki-Gryba

I don't think Ottawa is any better of a fit for Sbisa than Anaheim. If anything Ottawa needs another veteran top 4 guy.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

The hate for Sbisa is absolutely rational. I would love for Sbisa to be the player we all thought he could be. I just don't think he will. And Vatanen has nothing to do with this. They're completely different kinds of d-men. I do want the physical d-man that we want Sbisa to be as well. I would rather find him elsewhere because Sbisa just does not have the mental fortitude to do the job. In my opinion Fistric makes Sbisa redundant.

Well, you weren't exactly who I was referring to. But if Sbisa can cut down on his mistakes he is head and shoulders above Fistric in having more tools.

 

[TheJoeMan]

Well, you weren't exactly who I was referring to. But if Sbisa can cut down on his mistakes he is head and shoulders above Fistric in having more tools.

What tools though? That term gets thrown around a lot with Sbisa. He's decent skater but his hands are terrible. His shot is whatever. He hits well, sure. His passing leaves a lot to be desired. I don't really see the "tools" like you see with Fowler and Lindholm. Those two have the tools. Sbisa strikes me as pretty average honestly. I'm telling you, Vishnevsky 2.0.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

What tools though? That term gets thrown around a lot with Sbisa. He's decent skater but his hands are terrible. His shot is whatever. He hits well, sure. His passing leaves a lot to be desired. I don't really see the "tools" like you see with Fowler and Lindholm. Those two have the tools. Sbisa strikes me as pretty average honestly. I'm telling you, Vishnevsky 2.0.

Well, he is in no way on a par with Lindholm of Fowler. And to be fair I don't think anybody ever said he was or would be. I certainly didn't. But when he isn't making mistakes, he can pass quite well including breaking out of the D zone, he does have a pretty good shot when he gets it through (actually better than Cam), and he does skate quite well. All of those tools put him way ahead of Fistric if he can cut down on the boneheaded plays. He can already hit and fight as well as Fistric. He could potentially be a Beauch type player.

 

[mightyquack]

I would say Sbisa's play in the 2nd half of the season was a pretty big step forward for him. Playing simple hockey and seemed to cut down on his mistakes, first time he showed he could play a more defensive role on the team. Plus if he actually becomes a solid defensive defenceman, he could be a damn good one with his skating ability and size.

Why not see if he can keep adapting and improving in his new role next season?

 

[Lord Flashheart]

The hate for Sbisa is absolutely rational. I would love for Sbisa to be the player we all thought he could be. I just don't think he will. And Vatanen has nothing to do with this. They're completely different kinds of d-men. I do want the physical d-man that we want Sbisa to be as well. I would rather find him elsewhere because Sbisa just does not have the mental fortitude to do the job. In my opinion Fistric makes Sbisa redundant.

This is in line with saying Ducks should just dump Perreault. Fistric can't carry the puck at all, he handles it like a grenade. Sbisa had an injury riddled season, but he really improved after finally getting some games in. He can still become that solid 2nd pairing guy, that plays simple game and has some nastiness.

Souray 36, 1y left on the contract, may never play again
Beauch 33, 1y left on the contract
Allen 33, 1y left on the contract, will likely not be re-signed
Robidas 37, UFA, who knows whether he has another season in him

Dumping 24 y o controllable asset signed on good contract is a bad asset management.

 

[TheJoeMan]

This is in line with saying Ducks should just dump Perreault. Fistric can't carry the puck at all, he handles it like a grenade. Sbisa had an injury riddled season, but he really improved after finally getting some games in. He can still become that solid 2nd pairing guy, that plays simple game and has some nastiness.

Souray 36, 1y left on the contract, may never play again
Beauch 33, 1y left on the contract
Allen 33, 1y left on the contract, will likely not be re-signed
Robidas 37, UFA, who knows whether he has another season in him

Dumping 24 y o controllable asset signed on good contract is a bad asset management.

But you're judging him as a 24 year old d-man, not as Luca Sbisa. Was Burke in the wrong trading away Stan Chistov 7 years ago? Sometimes you realize the player you have just isn't going to be the player you want him to be. Getting a 2nd or 3rd round pick for Sbisa isn't bad asset management if he continues to be injury and turnover prone. We can easily get another d-man to fill his role which is a 6/7. He's not irreplaceable. Did we at any point this season miss having Sbisa in the lineup? Did we miss him last night in the biggest game of the year? Isn't a 3rd rounder worth not having to deal with his bad decisions?

 

[mightyquack]

Interestingly out of our defencemen, Sbisa has the 3rd lowest giveaways per 60 minutes at 1.09 (Robias and Fistric are both 0.92) and actually has the best turnover +/- and is only a -2 for turnovers.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

When Sbisa first got here I think most people saw him as more of a potential two way guy who would be relied upon to carry some offense. And that approach may be part of what he has been struggling with. If he is told only to focus on defense and not worry about offense it could well be what he needs to take his game to the next level.

With all the current tougher D men getting old Sbisa really has a golden opportunity to step up and be that guy for the Ducks. I don't think that possibility is lost on management. If he can be used in a trade to bring in that kind of guy, fine. But throwing him overboard for next to nothing when we are running out of that kind of D man is not good management.

 

[Duck Off]

What tools though? That term gets thrown around a lot with Sbisa. He's decent skater but his hands are terrible. His shot is whatever. He hits well, sure. His passing leaves a lot to be desired. I don't really see the "tools" like you see with Fowler and Lindholm. Those two have the tools. Sbisa strikes me as pretty average honestly. I'm telling you, Vishnevsky 2.0.

I literally said this years ago during his first year with us.

 

[TheJoeMan]

I literally said this years ago during his first year with us.

They even have the same upright skating style and effing number!

 

[Duck Off]

When Sbisa first got here I think most people saw him as more of a potential two way guy who would be relied upon to carry some offense. And that approach may be part of what he has been struggling with. If he is told only to focus on defense and not worry about offense it could well be what he needs to take his game to the next level.

With all the current tougher D men getting old Sbisa really has a golden opportunity to step up and be that guy for the Ducks. I don't think that possibility is lost on management. If he can be used in a trade to bring in that kind of guy, fine. But throwing him overboard for next to nothing when we are running out of that kind of D man is not good management.

a package like Holland got isn't next to nothing though, which is what I think Sbisa would fetch.

There's really no right or wrong answer.

I pretty much agree with most of what Joe is saying, but I do think the decision whether to trade him or not depends a lot on Vatanen. If we sign Vatanen to a 1 way deal, then I say trade Sbisa. Either him or Allen would have to go, and I would rather keep Allen. If he leaves after next season, bottom pairing defenseman aren't too hard to find anyway (by trade or FA). Plus we have Fistric who isn't much of a step down from Allen anyway.

When Vatanen stepped up his play, it showed that Sbisa's days could be numbered. When Fistric was extended, I figured that all but sealed Sbisa's fate.

Really too many unknowns right now though to determine if it's smart to trade Sbisa. How long will Fistric's injury keep him out? What happens with Vatanen?

 

[DaGeneral]

But you're judging him as a 24 year old d-man, not as Luca Sbisa. Was Burke in the wrong trading away Stan Chistov 7 years ago? Sometimes you realize the player you have just isn't going to be the player you want him to be. Getting a 2nd or 3rd round pick for Sbisa isn't bad asset management if he continues to be injury and turnover prone. We can easily get another d-man to fill his role which is a 6/7. He's not irreplaceable. Did we at any point this season miss having Sbisa in the lineup? Did we miss him last night in the biggest game of the year? Isn't a 3rd rounder worth not having to deal with his bad decisions?

No, dude.

You give up on players way too easily. You wanted to dump Perrault for a 5th rounder a few weeks ago. I think you misunderstand the value that some players provide. A 3rd rounder will take years to develop, and then potentially end up where Sbisa is now. Bad logic to say we didn't miss him because we still won the game last night. A player (lets say Sbisa) generally holds more value than any draft pick outside of the 1st round/2nd. Especially one like Sbisa who has nice potential, solid contract, and shows glimpses of being great.

Sbisa and Fowler have played almost the identical number of games, sometimes it takes players(especially defenseman) a longer time to master the position. Fowler and Lindholm are the exception, but some of us expect them to be the norm. Sbisa isn't being asked to carry the defense, his role will be defined into a bottom pairing guy who has potential to be more. I don't see why we would want a 3rd round pick versus a serviceable defenseman who can play 15 minutes a night.

 

[TheJoeMan]

No, dude.

You give up on players way too easily. You wanted to dump Perrault for a 5th rounder a few weeks ago. I think you misunderstand the value that some players provide. A 3rd rounder will take years to develop, and then potentially end up where Sbisa is now. Bad logic to say we didn't miss him because we still won the game last night. A player (lets say Sbisa) generally holds more value than any draft pick outside of the 1st round/2nd. Especially one like Sbisa who has nice potential, solid contract, and shows glimpses of being great.

Sbisa and Fowler have played almost the identical number of games, sometimes it takes players(especially defenseman) a longer time to master the position. Fowler and Lindholm are the exception, but some of us expect them to be the norm. Sbisa isn't being asked to carry the defense, his role will be defined into a bottom pairing guy who has potential to be more. I don't see why we would want a 3rd round pick versus a serviceable defenseman who can play 15 minutes a night.

Again, you are judging him by what you want him to be not what he is. He's 24. It's like he suddenly going to finally figure out that he makes dumb decisions with the puck and be this awesome player. He's just not very good. The good thing is we don't and never will rely on him. But he takes up a roster spot. We had this same debate with Sbisa last year too. He's not going to get better, at least not with us. Getting a third round pick for Sbisa is totally acceptable. Maybe there's a team that values his potential and might give up a second but I doubt it. I really don't know what so many people see in Sbisa. I see overthinking when he has the puck. I see bad passes up the middle of the ice. I see bad penalties when getting caught out of position. I see a total lack of offensive ability. Stop me when I'm wrong. Did this team not win many, many games without him in the lineup? Okay so you don't want to sell cheap on him than throw him into a deal to get a center or a better, veteran d-man.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

a package like Holland got isn't next to nothing though, which is what I think Sbisa would fetch.

There's really no right or wrong answer.

I pretty much agree with most of what Joe is saying, but I do think the decision whether to trade him or not depends a lot on Vatanen. If we sign Vatanen to a 1 way deal, then I say trade Sbisa. Either him or Allen would have to go, and I would rather keep Allen. If he leaves after next season, bottom pairing defenseman aren't too hard to find anyway (by trade or FA). Plus we have Fistric who isn't much of a step down from Allen anyway.

When Vatanen stepped up his play, it showed that Sbisa's days could be numbered. When Fistric was extended, I figured that all but sealed Sbisa's fate.

Really too many unknowns right now though to determine if it's smart to trade Sbisa. How long will Fistric's injury keep him out? What happens with Vatanen?

Sami will get signed to a one way deal because he holds too much value not to. The fallacy that he stepped up his play this year is just that. A certain few posters always pointing out a good play doesn't establish anything. He continues to make all the same mistakes late in the season as he did earlier in the season. He has a good shot, but his offensive zone activity always looks like the last minute of a 3-2 game we are losing. He is scrambling everywhere with no real plan. That's not the play you expect from a guy everybody said would QB a PP. His defense is no better as he seems to get lost in neutral zone a lot and then runs for his life in the D zone when chased by others. Relative to the game he plays, his season has been not unlike DSPs first year. Everybody is still waiting to see the NHL play match the expectations coming in. Do you think it's just coincidence he keeps getting scratched including some of the most important games of the season? Hampus plays all the time as a rookie. There's a reason one rookie plays all the games and one doesn't.

Sami might still develop into something, but at this point in time he has not developed into anything that says he has earned a permanent job next year or that he has displaced anybody.

 

[AngelDuck]

Wow. You really have it in for Sami Vatanen Eddie Shack.

I think I may be adding someone to my ignore list for the 1st time.

 

[Duck Off]

Sami will get signed to a one way deal because he holds too much value not to. The fallacy that he stepped up his play this year is just that. A certain few posters always pointing out a good play doesn't establish anything. He continues to make all the same mistakes late in the season as he did earlier in the season. He has a good shot, but his offensive zone activity always looks like the last minute of a 3-2 game we are losing. He is scrambling everywhere with no real plan. That's not the play you expect from a guy everybody said would QB a PP. His defense is no better as he seems to get lost in neutral zone a lot and then runs for his life in the D zone when chased by others. Relative to the game he plays, his season has been not unlike DSPs first year. Everybody is still waiting to see the NHL play match the expectations coming in. Do you think it's just coincidence he keeps getting scratched including some of the most important games of the season? Hampus plays all the time as a rookie. There's a reason one rookie plays all the games and one doesn't.

Sami might still develop into something, but at this point in time he has not developed into anything that says he has earned a permanent job next year or that he has displaced anybody.

As I said in the other thread, he hasn't earned a permanent job, but IMO, he's passed Sbisa on the depth chart. He's also going to be signed for half the money. I don't see both players on the roster next year (unless Murray is planning on moving Allen), and to me it's obvious which one we should keep.

 

[Duck Off]

Wow. You really have it in for Sami Vatanen Eddie Shack.

I think I may be adding someone to my ignore list for the 1st time.

in fairness to him, he's actually adding evidence to his arguments so I have no issue with anything he's said. It's the posters who praise or just ***** about certain players over and over with no justification that's more annoying IMO.

 

[AngelDuck]

in fairness to him, he's actually adding evidence to his arguments so I have no issue with anything he's said. It's the posters who praise or just ***** about certain players over and over with no justification that's more annoying IMO.

That's fine, but he never acknowledges the good Sami does out there. Only his deficiencies. He clearly has a personal vendetta against this player if you read his post history. I've been hard on Sbisa in the past but even I acknowledged that he's young, physical, and pretty cheap. Sami clearly has weaknesses, he also has strengths that are deserving of recognition. I think he's done a good job when given an opportunity this year. Better than Sbisa IMO

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

in fairness to him, he's actually adding evidence to his arguments so I have no issue with anything he's said. It's the posters who praise or just ***** about certain players over and over with no justification that's more annoying IMO.

And AD is exactly one of those who's irrational love of Sami has manifested itself into the constant Sbisa hate he spews. I've already had him on ignore for a long time now. He has previously stated how he would guarantee Sami will be a superstar in the NHL. This before Sami ever saw the inside of an NHL arena. He then follows it up with constant bashing and whining of Sbisa, multiple times in every GDT as well as elsewhere on the board. He's exactly the kind of person who can't put up a logical argument to support himself. The fact that a logical argument (whether you agree with it or not) somehow constitutes having it in for somebody shows how one sided he thinks. You either think like him or you get the Sbisa treatment.

 

[TheJoeMan]

That's fine, but he never acknowledges the good Sami does out there. Only his deficiencies. He clearly has a personal vendetta against this player if you read his post history. I've been hard on Sbisa in the past but even I acknowledged that he's young, physical, and pretty cheap. Sami clearly has weaknesses, he also has strengths that are deserving of recognition. I think he's done a good job when given an opportunity this year. Better than Sbisa IMO

I find it fascinating how many people bash Sami yet want to give Sbisa a reprise. And vice versa too. I'm with that Vatanen isn't perfect but some people make it seem like he needs to be. Sami has been real good for most of the season. The first five games back from his injury he was great. The last couple he made a lot of mistakes and hasn't gotten back into the lineup. Ironically I think he and Sbisa both suffer from thinking too much. When Sami is just playing his game and only focusing on what he needs to do he's very effective. I love the way he moves the puck. But I also hate it when he makes a mistake because his mistakes seem to be more noticeable. The difference between him and Sbisa though is he brings a lot more to the table. His ability to move the puck and put up points dwarfs Sbisa ability to be physical down low. But for whatever reason a lot people seem to focus on the negative with Vatanen and ignore it with Sbisa.

 

[AngelDuck]

And AD is exactly one of those who's irrational love of Sami has manifested itself into the constant Sbisa hate he spews. I've already had him on ignore for a long time now. He has previously stated how he would guarantee Sami will be a superstar in the NHL. This before Sami ever saw the inside of an NHL arena. He then follows it up with constant bashing and whining of Sbisa, multiple times in every GDT as well as elsewhere on the board. He's exactly the kind of person who can't put up a logical argument to support himself. The fact that a logical argument (whether you agree with it or not) somehow constitutes having it in for somebody shows how one sided he thinks. You either think like him or you get the Sbisa treatment.

I never said Sami would be a superstar
I think he'll be a good NHL player