Loose-Leafs #8 "How Do You Solve A Problem Like Our Defense?"

Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
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Loose-Leafs


Toronto Maple Leafs At A Glance
14-8-1 - Tied 2nd for the Atlantic, Tied 3rd for the Conference
(we are exactly tied with Tampa in every way. 14 wins, 8 losses, 1 OT loss, 11 wins in regulation, etc, they beat us by 1 goal for, but we've got less goals against - so I think because of that one goal they'd win the tie breaker?)

Abbreviated Stats
Goals per Game: 2.7 (11th)
Goals Against: 2.3 (10th)
Powerplay: 24.7% (2nd!)
Penalty Kill: 83.0% (14th) :(



Our Defense In a Nutshell:

Is not scoring. There are more defensemen out there that have more goals than our entire back end. (as of today's loose-leaf - the Leafs have 3 goals. I think 2 are from Dion Phaneuf). What gives? Randy said in his presser last night that the coaching staff has been pleading with the defensemen to take more shots, and not just the huge howitzers from the point - just take two more seconds, avoid the clogged shooting lane and find another one. Or just wrist it. (But they've got thick heads, :laugh: - quote/unquote, Randy Carlyle).

During the morning skate yesterday, David Clarkson & Jake Gardiner were practicing wristers and tap ins from the point. Last night it directly led to the only Leafs regulation goal (which was an awesome goal).

You can tell that Dion is working on his big slapper, by not 'doing it' as much , (he's getting closer to the net, guys!) Franson, mostly gets his to the net - and Rielly mostly just rushes towards the net!) but the boys need to stop being cute, and start getting more pucks to the net. Not just for shooting sake - but for simply getting the second/third/fourth chance for the forwards who live at the net (Lupul, Clarkson, Raymond, JVR).


I really hope this gets better as the season goes on.


We also aren't physical enough. If you were in the corner trying to dig out the puck and you knew that Phaneuf was on the bench - who is the next defenseman who is going to make your life miserable? Or if you were parked at the front of the net, trying to sit on James Reimer's head (M.O. for most teams :laugh:) - who is trying to shove you out of the way?

Take a minute...
I'll wait.


[hums Jeopardy theme song].

Most likely Franson. Fraser if he's in the lineup. Possibly Gunnarson?

No, buneo! Especially because Franson - who is picking up his physical play :thumbu: has seem to leave his defensive play behind (most times). :thumbd: I'm sure that this is all a new learning curve and it will work together sooner than later (because to have a guy like Franny be physical as well will speak volumes). But it is hard to argue that we have a lot of the same type of defense on the back end:

Offensive and mostly puck moving. (where were you guys 6 years ago... oh right, some of you were still teenagers :laugh:)

I've been arguing that it's not that big of a deal that we have a Rielly, a Gardiner and a Franson, this would be actually a very big boon for our club. (because, ideally, you could play Rielly - who after one game really seems that he can play the right side - a hell of a lot better than Gardiner that's for sure).

Which means - I honestly feel that the new secret deal/trade that Nonis is working on is getting a smacker defenseman. I honestly think with the centres we have, we'll be okay because our winger strength is very strong - if one comes up, then of course we'll go for it - but I am very happy with a

Tyler Bozak
Dave Bolland
Peter Holland
Nazem (Nathan) Kadri
Jerred Smithson
Jay McClement

centre core because the strength of our wingers is that good. We've got centres by committee (win some faceoffs, and just get the puck to the wingers. so it might not be the most 'ideal' situations if you simply go by 'history' or whatever, but - it works for us).

(It also wouldn't shock me too much - if NOTHING happens - and we wait say another year? to see what our glut of defensemen prospects can do).


Coloured me shocked when Rielly got to play yesterday and Ranger did not. you could have knocked me over with a feather. And Rielly really turned the jets on yesterday. I honestly don't have a problem with him sitting out (Kaberle in his rookie year sat out 15, in 5 block stretches. I don't know the stats for Schenn). I also don't even think burning a year off Rielly's UFA eligibility is flitting through Management's mind (because I honestly think their thought process is - he's our franchise defenseman - we'll sign him up regardless).

If we keep playing Fraser - I honestly think we're going to either be
A: playing with seven defensemen (which we did against Buffalo, and it didn't look horrid)
B: do a cycle of Ranger, Rielly, Franson(?) sitting out (Fraser, despite his slow foot speed, does do a number of cleaning out players from our crease).
C: ???

And - Ric Nattress brought this up and I agree: last year - we were very, very good at the tic-tac-toe passing. This year - not so much - but he said as players you get in your head that it worked last year - so if you keep doing it, it will eventually get back to where it is, which is why they aren't really making some adjustments. (stubborn gits). I don't really care about that pass - my massive irritation is the stupid no look drop pass. (GHURRR stop doing it!)

Team > Line > Player

As I said in my season preview -

thi-dating-dysfunctional-relationship_large.jpg

Most of you guys are awesome - even if we all don't agree on the same things at times. But what really is interesting is that most times people do this:

Player > Line > Team


which shouldn't be the case. it should always, always be:

Team > Line > Player

For weeks Clarkson has been getting dumped on because of his contract. Let's just all admit it right now: Guy is never, ever, ever going to live up to it if you think he's going to be scoring 30 goals, get 15++ assists and is a + whatever will make you happy. That is gravy. You can say (scream, shout, wave hands) that this makes it poor cap management - but!

If we go back to say the New Jersey Devil (HoFG) Game - Clarkson was flying. and I think ever since he started getting powerplay time, he really has started getting a little bit more geared up offensively. Then came his first goal, and his 2nd last night. But what I'm noticing is his work ethic: he can get the puck into the zone. He can really keep the puck IN the zone.

and can channel Darcy Tucker better than anyone else I've ever seen. Right down to the crazyeyes. But he's also got a lot of Gary Roberts in him (in terms of leadership, and his on ice play). And I've said in his player thread: if he can do what Roberts did - be very good in regular season - but turn into a BEAST in the playoffs: that will be money very well spent). I think we have to start thinking for some players - we're paying them for what they'll do in the playoffs - not necessarily what they do in the regular season. [and seriously - just watch the Lupul/Kadri/Clarkson line they were magic last night].


Also - I like how if a player (using Kadri for an example) is used in a trade, all of a sudden it's :facepalm: why can't we have nice things! or Why isn't Kadri on the first line! BOZAK SUCKS!!!


Again: look at the Lupul/Kadri/Clarkson line: that is why. having Kadri on the 'second' line makes it very hard to shut down our offense. Also - no one ever said that that 'second' line has to BE the 'second line'. if it simply boils down to minutes, and the LKC plays more than the JVR/B/K line - doesn't that make the LKC line our #1 line?

wait for it... wait for it....

mindblown.jpg

Also - the mind set that I have is that the :leafs will always trump the player - so if Moving Kadri (Bernier, whomever) = getting THE PIECE that puts us over the top - then don't you make that move? And I say this as a girl who gets very attached to whomever dons the :leafs. (I miss Cory Cross... I may or may not be joking ;))


Player of the Week
clarkson-130922-620-thumb-620xauto-331575.jpg

I said it two weeks ago - Clarkson needs to step up and channel his inner Gary Roberts. You can totally tell the guy is getting more and more comfortable in the role he is put in (he's finally up to speed with the team mentally and whatever else there is to be). He scored his first goal as a Leaf on Tuesday and smacked the body around and he was a pesky little firecracker Saturday night and scored again. (and almost scored a shootout goal, if not for the post).

But a huge. massive. honourable mention also has to go to:

reimer_reax.gif

ohhh yeahh baby!​

I still don't see where Washington got 50 shots (because if you ask me - shots allowed or whatever) - i'd say that last night was our first complete game. Yes we were hemmed in the zone a bit in the third - but that's to be expected in a 1-0 game, and you have firepower like washington. and it would have ended in regulation if not for the Luck of the Ovie. Phaneuf also gets an honour mention: shutting down Taveres and Ovie except for 15 seconds - but 9x10 no one makes that shot but Ovechkin).

But Reimer - 6-2. (and one of those games, we totally forgot to show up (Vancouver), and we were in there against Boston). and a sv% of .947. Reimer = awesome. (Bernier = awesome too, I totally hear that deep breath of whatever is coming my way).


Leafs At A Glance

Busy busy busy! We have 4 games this week, including a divisional back to back (the Loose-Leaflet for December will come out the minute after the Montreal game). December also gives us a crapload of play against some really tough teams, so if we can somehow get a sweep this week - that would be amazing, but I'd rather just ensure that we get a point in every game) - beating Montreal outright.


November 25th 2013
:cbj @ :leafs - 7:00 start, Sportsnet-O/Fan 590 (GDT AVAILABLE, find a stream!).

November 27th 2013
:leafs @ :pens - 7:30 start, TSN/Fan 590 (GDT AVAILABLE)

November 29th, 2013
:leafs @ :sabres - 7:30 start, LeafsTV/TSN1050 (yes we know LTV sucks, GDT AVAILABLE)

November 30th, 2013
:leafs @ :habs - 7:00 start, HNIC/TSN1050 (gdt by of MiceandKadri).

As always - Believe in our Boys & See you next week!
 

The Winter Soldier

Registered User
Apr 4, 2011
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One thing, Rielly with Dion

Gunnar with Gardiner

Franson back with Fraser.

That's how I would fix our defence. Rielly looks ready for a bigger role, had a magnificent game last night, his best IMO.
 

Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
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One thing, Rielly with Dion

Gunnar with Gardiner

Franson back with Fraser.

That's how I would fix our defence. Rielly looks ready for a bigger role, had a magnificent game last night, his best IMO.


we - per usual - are on the same wavelength - I was going to actually post that, but then I thought it might be too far out.

but this gives every single "offensive" minded defenseman the green light to go - and then you've got the 'stay at home' guy ready to clean up the mess. :)
 

Pyromaniac3

Registered User
Dec 19, 2011
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One thing, Rielly with Dion

Gunnar with Gardiner

Franson back with Fraser.

That's how I would fix our defence. Rielly looks ready for a bigger role, had a magnificent game last night, his best IMO.

Let's not get carried away from 1 game here. This will lead to another Kostka and Holzer situation.

Let him dominate on 3rd pairing and slowly bring him up.
 

NarcoPolo

Registered User
Jul 16, 2012
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Our d will be an area of strength for us in the not to distant future.. Rielly likely getting an increasing role, Percy coming through the pipes, If Finn makes a smooth transition to the ahl, and macwilliam looking like he can be a staple on the bottom pairing.. We're gonna have an incredibly smart dcore for the future.
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
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One thing, Rielly with Dion

Gunnar with Gardiner

Franson back with Fraser.

That's how I would fix our defence. Rielly looks ready for a bigger role, had a magnificent game last night, his best IMO.

Although I fully agree with your premise, that won't happen for awhile yet.
 

The Winter Soldier

Registered User
Apr 4, 2011
70,878
21,165
Although I fully agree with your premise, that won't happen for awhile yet.

Let's not get carried away from 1 game here. This will lead to another Kostka and Holzer situation.

Let him dominate on 3rd pairing and slowly bring him up.

It's a long season, but when Rielly is ready to take on more significant mins. The better he will be when the playoffs are here.

I still think we need a steady D man to take some tough mins, this is still the weakest part of our team. Orpik like would be perfect.
 

ULF_55

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Feb 27, 2002
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Let's not get carried away from 1 game here. This will lead to another Kostka and Holzer situation.

Let him dominate on 3rd pairing and slowly bring him up.

Kostka was a 27 year old rookie.
Holzer was 24/25 year old rookie.

Rielly is a top 5 pick, projected to be one of the best Leafs selected in many, many years.

Jones 23:41
C.Murphy 22:32
Lindholm 19:26
Murray 19:18
R.Murphy 19:11
Rielly 17:16
 
Last edited:

highslot

Registered User
Jul 10, 2012
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have any of the mobile d been playing more than a few years at the nhl level for a full season?

i think the answer is that they are all still newbies. it's unrealistic to expect d who don't have the defensive part down yet to work on executing offensive plays at the highest level at the same time. they only need time. if you look at the pp, gardiner and reilly look fine.

also, dion only actually goes into the corner when he's not tired. otherwise he waits and lets forwards go around him.

reilly might work in the future but seems to be doing well with fraser, i'd keep him there. remember, he hasn't played a full nhl season yet, let alone ahl. his defense has years to go.

if you were going to move anyone, gardiner would make more sense to give a try on first line because of his experience and dion would sit back more.
 

ULF_55

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Feb 27, 2002
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Our d will be an area of strength for us in the not to distant future.. Rielly likely getting an increasing role, Percy coming through the pipes, If Finn makes a smooth transition to the ahl, and macwilliam looking like he can be a staple on the bottom pairing.. We're gonna have an incredibly smart dcore for the future.

From what I've heard Percy and Granberg are the prospects who are playing well.
 

darrylsittler27

Registered User
Oct 21, 2002
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What problem?

One thing Burke did do was rebuild our D. Sure we need a vet number 2 guy to help Phaneuff but who has $5M in cap nowadays? Right now I think the Leafs are going to explore the "Reilly effect" until deadline when $$ becomes less an issue.

Phaneuff Reilly

Gardiner Gunner

Franson Fraser

Ranger -7th

Until Liles gets moved.

Finn and Percy both look like future players.
 

Ari91

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Nov 24, 2010
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Since Toronto and Tampa are tied in points and games played and regulation/OT wins, the next tiebreaker is head to head match ups between them (which there hasn't been any). The final tiebreaker is goal differential. Toronto wins the tiebreaker being a +12 to Tampa's +6.

Really want to see the tighten up the PK.

The lack of production from the backend has been worrisome. Aside from last night, it seems Gardiner is shooting wide at an alarming rate. He carries the puck into the zone well but it doesn't seem like he's getting much net or rebounds from it. Would like to see him continue to work on that. Worked for him last night...keep motivated to do it more often. Rielly's speed with the puck on his stick is explosive...I'm anxiously waiting for the kid to pot one in. I think it could do a world of good for his offensive game to that that first goal out of the way.

Great call on the honourable mention and player of the week. Clarkson deserves it. It seems he's finding his stride. I'm loving how strong he is on the puck and I think Lupul and Kadri could really benefit from having a guy like that that can play in the dirty areas and still come out with the puck. He's obviously not as offensively gifted as the other two but I do think they are our most complete offensive line.
 

Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
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Since Toronto and Tampa are tied in points and games played and regulation/OT wins, the next tiebreaker is head to head match ups between them (which there hasn't been any). The final tiebreaker is goal differential. Toronto wins the tiebreaker being a +12 to Tampa's +6.

Really want to see the tighten up the PK.

The lack of production from the backend has been worrisome. Aside from last night, it seems Gardiner is shooting wide at an alarming rate. He carries the puck into the zone well but it doesn't seem like he's getting much net or rebounds from it. Would like to see him continue to work on that. Worked for him last night...keep motivated to do it more often. Rielly's speed with the puck on his stick is explosive...I'm anxiously waiting for the kid to pot one in. I think it could do a world of good for his offensive game to that that first goal out of the way.

Great call on the honourable mention and player of the week. Clarkson deserves it. It seems he's finding his stride. I'm loving how strong he is on the puck and I think Lupul and Kadri could really benefit from having a guy like that that can play in the dirty areas and still come out with the puck. He's obviously not as offensively gifted as the other two but I do think they are our most complete offensive line.

his first goal is going to come at the best time ever (like - we eliminate a team from playoff contention - or we clinch the playoffs with his goal. something MEGA memorable) :D

I honestly think re: the PK - it will be stablized when Bozak comes back (to a certain extent) and everyone is finally clicking. we moved from 16 to 14th in one game - so we just need a good stretch of NO goals allowed and we'll be good.
 

Ari91

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Nov 24, 2010
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his first goal is going to come at the best time ever (like - we eliminate a team from playoff contention - or we clinch the playoffs with his goal. something MEGA memorable) :D

I honestly think re: the PK - it will be stablized when Bozak comes back (to a certain extent) and everyone is finally clicking. we moved from 16 to 14th in one game - so we just need a good stretch of NO goals allowed and we'll be good.

Yeah, I think a good stretch of PKing will alleviate the matter however it didn't help much missing Bozak and Bolland all the while going on a stretch of games where they were taking a ridiculous amount of penalties.
 

Peasy

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May 25, 2012
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Does percy shoot right? The ahl site, eliteprospects and hockeydb says left, but hockeysfuture says right.
Hes left handed.

I really cant believe our D only has 3 goals this far into the season...Gardiner just seems to carry the puck in, circle the net, and then passes it off, he needs to start driving the net or shooting it instead of circling around like always. Cant wait to get Bozak back so we can finally have our top 6 intact (knock on wood).
 

King85Kong

Playoffs?
Nov 24, 2013
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Toronto
I actually like our Defense; they're young and improving, with lots of potential.

Prefer;

Dion-Reilly
Gards-Gunner
Fransen-Fraser


IMO our weakest position is Centre. It's been that way since Sundin left. Need another 1/2 centre (along with Kadri) with offensive abilities and a strong position game. Would alleviate pressure off our defense. We take the puck down the ice, quick shot, and its right back in our end.
 

Swervin81

Leaf fan | YYZ -> SEA
Nov 10, 2011
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Seattle, WA
Awesome job as usual, Daisy. Don't worry, I miss Jyrki Lumme, despite how bad he was.

I would actually like to see Rielly with Phaneuf personally. Seth Jones, Ryan Murphy, and Hampus Lindholm are all getting lots of minutes and doing very well. It's not anywhere close to a Holzer/Kostka situation since Kostka and Holzer are older guys with little upside.
 

Erndog

Registered User
Jul 17, 2007
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Our defence doesn't shoot. They either wrist a fluttery in, or hang onto it for an extra second or two.

When they do that cross ice/blueline pass nobody ever 1-times it.

They are VERY reluctant to shoot.

I'm not actually sure we have a slap shot goal from the point (from anyone!) all season!

We certainly don't have a PPG from our D. Absolutely sad.
 

sommervr

Registered User
Feb 25, 2013
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Gotta get Ranger and Gardiner going. Based on past seasins they have the most room to improve.

Fraser is a known quantity and his ceiling is much lower than the other D.
 

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