Looking back at Crosby's career, is there any disappointment?

[MadLuke]

All in all, I think it is reasonable to assume that players and coaches are smart and do what's best for them. So the answer to "what if Crosby shot more?" or "what if OV passed the puck more?" is the same, "they would be worse players than they are".

That a good assumption and the hole reason there is that conversation, is that what is best for a player isn't 100% in sync with what is best for a team to win's game necessarily (same for a coach, that why they do not necessarily optimize pulling goaltender correctly, not looking bad being better for them than maximizing their team win %).

And for an obvious example, a player could try to maximize scoring goal vs winning hockey game, they are recorded, used in contract negotiation, fun to make and so on.

For a coach keeping important player happy can be what is the best for them (to have pleasant days, to keep their jobs and so on)

 

[daver]

I don't care how many shots OV takes.

I just want people to look square into the computer and continue saying that him scoring 1 more goal than Draisaitl last year despite holding a 200+ shot advantage, is somehow impressive. Note, I'm not saying the total is not impressive. 50+ goals is always a nice benchmark for rocket winners.

If OV had an usually low shooting %, your point may make more sense. He is below average among the top goalscorers which indicates he is more of a volume shooter but noone can argue he is not the most deadly shooter in the league over his career so it makes sense that he would shoot a lot.

As for Draisaitl, you seem to want to treat him as the standard of taking the appropriate amount of shots without acknowledging he played with McDavid.

What OV compared to Tavares? Four less goals with a slightly higher shooting %.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Stay on topic. There are plenty of non-History threads for discussing current events on the main boards.

 

[MatchesMalone]

I don't care how many shots OV takes.

I just want people to look square into the computer and continue saying that him scoring 1 more goal than Draisaitl last year despite holding a 200+ shot advantage, is somehow impressive. Note, I'm not saying the total is not impressive. 50+ goals is always a nice benchmark for rocket winners.

But there is context in everything. Every sport, hockey included we talk about ratio's and relativity. We talk about per game totals, per 60 minutes, etc. You can go on and on and on.

But when it comes to goal scoring, the OV crowd clings to the:

1. Goals are more valuable than points. Yawn.

2. All goals are created equal and therefor should count for the same value whereas say secondary assists should be devalued because some of them are gift wrapped points (not even denying this, just comical someone would say this and not say the same thing about empty goals scored or goals scored where the player scoring does nothing more than tap the puck into a wide open net).

3. All shots are good.

-This is probably my favorite because it's born out of outdated thinking as it pertains to possession. I'd be more inclined to say that all shots ON NET are good but even that is ridiculous when you consider plenty of on goal shots are blocked and possession changes. And nobody misses the net more than OV.

How many times (thousands obviously) has OV missed the net with a shot that had little to zero chance of going in, smacks off the boards 10 feet wide and ends up with the other team. I'd consider that a turnover all things considered.

At the end of the day, OV's entire resume revolves around 1 stat. Yeah, he's really, really, really great at it, but strip that away and you're left with a guy who's been past the 2nd round of the postseason 1 time in 15 years and who's only Cup win came against an upstart expansion team.

His career is void of any sterling international acclaim at the biggest tournaments (Olympics, not watered down modern era WC's where even there he's not that great). He's one of the worst defensive players of this era. He doesn't take faceoffs. He's not protecting late leads. 3/4 of his career he's been a trigger man goal scorer rather than someone who can create time and space and goals on his own consistently.

Honestly the 2nd most impressive aspect to OV's career is probably his durability.

But we're talking about him as a top 10 and eventual top 5 player of all time because he's scored a lot of goals, needed vastly more shots just to pass the guys he's passing?

I'm not THAT impressed (putting him into the top 10).

.... what?

My dude, I'm looking scare into my computer screen and telling you, scoring more goals than anybody else is somehow impressive.

You say you don't care how many shots he takes, but then you imply that taking too many shots diminishes his accomplishment. I came into this cold and just read your post without context, but you sound insane right now.

 

[daver]

Maybe this is trying to put some rose colored glasses on, but how much does playoff games impact the next season? Gretzky had 33 playoff games under his belt after 4 seasons. Crosby had 53. Now of course I'm not saying Crosby would have been Gretzky, but when you have that much extra, to borrow a baseball term, "high leverage play", coupled with the fact Crosby was playing well into June, whereas Gretzky was done by mid-May even when they did win, you have to think that would take some kind of toll that accumulates. Lemieux didn't even see a playoff game until his 5 season.

Of course, Crosby wasn't going to put up 200 point seasons at any point, but did having such a heavy playoff load impact Crosby a bit?

I think you can make a good argument his 09/10 season was affected by fatigue/Cup hangover. 1.20 PPG for the first 40 games, 1.49 for the last 41 games.

Considering his PPG for the next three seasons, albeit partial ones, was above 1.60 until he was injured, points to that being a season where another Art Ross could have been won if not for two Cup runs the previous two seasons.

 

[K Fleur]

Tons of falsehoods in here. I'll give you a night to factcheck yourself before I tear your post to shreds.

I’m on the edge of my seat in anticipation.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

I think you can make a good argument his 09/10 season was affected by fatigue/Cup hangover. 1.20 PPG for the first 40 games, 1.49 for the last 41 games.

Considering his PPG for the next three seasons, albeit partial ones, was above 1.60 until he was injured, points to that being a season where another Art Ross could have been won if not for two Cup runs the previous two seasons.

Crosby was 22 years old. There was no fatigue especially 4 months later

 

[c9777666]

Before winning back-to-back Cups in 2016-2017, Crosby missed on a real shot at possibly another repeat.

2010- the year he scored 50 goals- Pittsburgh was a 4 seed but after a carnage-laden first round in which the top 3 seeds all lost (WAS/BUF/NJD), the Pens were the highest seed left and seemingly had an easier path to a 3rd straight Cup Final (those 3 teams, PIT struggled against in the 2009-10 season).

Facing an 8th seed Montreal that had fewer points than a non-playoff Calgary team, was 18th overall by record, and was essentially a 2-man team that spring (Halak and Camalleri), Crosby had only 5 points in 7 games (including only 1 goal) and the Pens blew 3 series leads (1-0, 2-1, 3-2) and lost a winnable series.

Crosby could have faced the Flyers in the East Finals (assuming the historic comeback vs BOS still happened) and we know about his track record vs Philly, so that was a possible missed chance to tie Gretzky with 4 Cups.

 

[Offtheboard412]

The shots Crosby did not take are low-percentage perimeter shots. Guys like Ovechkin or prime Kovalchuk or Stamkos can score from those shots too, that's why they shoot. Crosby does not have their shot and he is a better passer than shooter, so he passes instead of shooting.

Crosby passes up a lot more than just low percentage perimeter shots. He passes up A LOT of shots in the slot and around the net in order to set up other players.

 

[daver]

Before winning back-to-back Cups in 2016-2017, Crosby missed on a real shot at possibly another repeat.

2010- the year he scored 50 goals- Pittsburgh was a 4 seed but after a carnage-laden first round in which the top 3 seeds all lost (WAS/BUF/NJD), the Pens were the highest seed left and seemingly had an easier path to a 3rd straight Cup Final (those 3 teams, PIT struggled against in the 2009-10 season).

Facing an 8th seed Montreal that had fewer points than a non-playoff Calgary team, was 18th overall by record, and was essentially a 2-man team that spring (Halak and Camalleri), Crosby had only 5 points in 7 games (including only 1 goal) and the Pens blew 3 series leads (1-0, 2-1, 3-2) and lost a winnable series.

Crosby could have faced the Flyers in the East Finals (assuming the historic comeback vs BOS still happened) and we know about his track record vs Philly, so that was a possible missed chance to tie Gretzky with 4 Cups.

Expecting the Pens to beat a very good Hawks that year in their 3rd straight SCF is a pretty unrealistic. If you put that on Crosby's shoulders then you have to give him credit for beating the Sens literally by himself in the 1st round.