Honestly, I'd rather move Eller than Plekanec unless it's a question of getting a offer you can't pass up for Plekanec.
Line-up idea: Pleks as a LW
- Thread starter HabsFanJosh
- Start date
Honestly, I'd rather move Eller than Plekanec unless it's a question of getting a offer you can't pass up for Plekanec.
Thanks for the backup. Knew some people wouldn't like the idea, didn't think people would, for the most part, call me an idiot for suggesting it.
Long term though? Pleks is getting near the end of his career. I love the guy, and I, despite my suggestion, love Pleks as a center too, but I think the long term return from Eller is going to be greater than what Pleks will give over the next 5-10 years. Just out of curiosity, what do you think the returns for both of them would be? As in what could we get in a trade for Pleks or Eller
I don't find Eller to be as good as Plekanec now and I don't see him surpassing Plekanec either.
IMO long term Plekanec can be a 3rd line vet who will not complain about ice time and eat up as many minutes as required. He always has a place on the habs IMO.
As for their value, it's tough to really know. There's a forum for these things(trade forum) but Plekanec can get you more than Eller. He's a proven performer and can play any role. Eller would likely get you a #4D or another top 9 forward with upside. Plekanec would probably get you something a little more established but not sure what. Plekanec's return can be complete futures another similar aged talent, I don't know, depends the team.
In my opinion it makes more sense to move DD to the wing, because Galchenyuk will probably need to be sheltered a bit, at least at the beginning, and having two C's who need that is asking for trouble.
Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Desharnais
Sekac - Plekanec - Gallagher
Bourque - Eller - Parenteau
Might want to switch Parenteau and Gallagher
Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Gallagher
Desharnais - Plekanec - Parenteau
Bourque - Eller - Sekac
Just throwing ideas out there, can't really say what will or will not work until we see what level guys are playing at when the season starts.
Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Desharnais
Sekac - Plekanec - Gallagher
Bourque - Eller - Parenteau
Might want to switch Parenteau and Gallagher
Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Gallagher
Desharnais - Plekanec - Parenteau
Bourque - Eller - Sekac
Just throwing ideas out there, can't really say what will or will not work until we see what level guys are playing at when the season starts.
haha, I definitely see your point. How old do you think Pleks will be when he retires/ becomes really ineffective?
Fair enough but then rephrase what you wrote because Eller is not a top 2 c or a top 6 player period
Adriatic
Registered User
- Feb 27, 2004
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- 4,101
How is that not the main problem. Small and soft wingers have been our achilles for a long time now and one of the main reasons we can't consistently keep pressure in the offensive zone or grind out wins in the playoffs. We're finally getting away from all that and you wanna go back to having soft wingers that can't grind or be physical. Unless you're a sniper you can't afford to have soft wingers not willing to be physical on your top 6.Well it has been fun for some years now (Briere, Cammaleri, Gionta, Gomez, Desharnais, Gallagher, Weber).
I don't think it would be the main problem.
And as Plekanec is good defensively, he is not God. He still thinks the game as a winger offensively. Cammaleri and Vanek didnt want to play with the guy because he is always getting the tough match ups and because he is not a great set up guy..
I would love it for the simple fact that Therrien would have to start spreading his assigments and defensive zone starts more evenly, and as Pacioretty said himself : "Davey's defensive game is underrated".
I'm with you, bro. Let's think outside the box, just for a minute.
Plekanec Galchenyuk Bourque
Pacioretty Desharnais Parenteau
Sekac Eller Gallagher
Stop focusing solely on the fact I mention Eller as a top six center. It's all based on opinion. You don't think he is, I do. The real fact was Boston is short on top six centers, which implies Montreal is not. You were also commenting related to moving Bergeron to RW, something I believe has no value in comparison to moving Pleks to LW.
Share your opinion, don't tell me to rephrase my own.
- Jun 24, 2012
- 84,112
- 151,831
Not surprised, frankly. This place is always primed for a guerilla sniper attack.
I didn't like your thread idea either, but thought better of it than putting you down.
One thing I learned a long time ago -- never start a thread.
Not surprised, frankly. This place is always primed for a guerilla sniper attack.
I didn't like your thread idea either, but thought better of it than putting you down.
One thing I learned a long time ago -- never start a thread.
I'll add that to the list. I've learned that DD bashing is inevitable, and there's point in trying to stop it. Maybe a better way of putting it is: HF forum posters follow simple human logic.
"DD did bad, DD is on team, me hate DD."
"But lets talk about the future, you know, three years from now when he's likely not on the team"
"DD did bad, DD is on team, me hate DD."
"You don't think MB will sign him to another extension to you?"
"DD did bad, DD is on team, me hate DD."
- Aug 22, 2006
- 60,352
- 16,840
Don't take it personally HFJ. We have a passionate bunch here, some of which should really be heavily medicated.
In saying that, I agree with the majority. As much as I'd like to see Chucky get his shot at center. Moving Plekanec to the wing is the last thing I would personally do.
- Jun 24, 2012
- 84,112
- 151,831
It's unfair to generalize as there are a lot of thoughtful individuals here who give up a crazy amount of time writing books that parade as posts. Kudos to them. Can't wait to be retired so that I can engage in a similar pursuit. Not.
However, one thing is certain, some people will throw out their better judgment when it comes to players or ideas they are inextricably attached to, for whatever reason, especially when their attachment is emotional. And once they've made their point, we can go through thousands of posts and no one will ever admit to being wrong about anything.
However, should you have a contrary opinion, one's mental state will be questioned at some point in the process. Whenever you start a thread, that process is accelerated, given the extra scrutiny.
Lafleurs Guy
Guuuuuuuy!
- Jul 20, 2007
- 75,476
- 45,567
Folks probably shouldn't have blasted you but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Reality is that he's our best two way center right now. So putting him on the wing really doesn't fly. If we want Galchenyuk to go to center the right thing is to move DD. And by moving DD I don't mean to the wing... I mean to another team.
As would I. I meant given Plek or Eller though, I move Eller. Given DD or any of other 2, I move DD.
I agree he is currently our best two-way center. I just don't see Eller getting better while getting scrap match-ups, and the only way to do that is to either delegate the defensive responsibility more, or put our team in a position where we have to give Eller those match-ups. In my view, we still have Pleks on the ice for those tough match-ups, and I'm not of the opinion he will lose all effectiveness as a winger. The problem with moving DD or Eller to the wing is it presents a wild card, as both are natural centers. Whereas, Pleks was drafter as a LW. Sure he hasn't played the position in a decade, but he has a high hockey IQ, which is why we switched him to center in the first place, and so I really don't see his ability as a winger as a question mark. I pretty much expect the same level of play. Also, I'd be of the same opinion as others if we didn't have Eller and Manny. It's been a good while since we've had a legitimate 4th line center, especially one who is good at faceoffs. That immediately alleviates some of the defensive pressure on Pleks. Then we have Eller, who is more known for his defensive abilities than his offensive ones. He might never be a better player than Pleks, all around, but he might be as good defensively.
As for my lineup, the view is that Gally, Patches and Chucky are all too talented offensively not to have some success. They are a line that can be sheltered defensively, but as we saw last year Patches has shown improvement and Gally really isn't that much of a liability. The only question mark is how well will Chuckie perform his defensive duties. My opinion is, especially with Pleks as a mentor, he will be a whole lot better than people expect. One of my favorite parts of his game is when he back checks and strips players of the puck in the offensive or neutral zone. I personally thought that was one of the big successes behind the EGG line; all of them did it, and they play in the dirty areas.
The line with Pleks, and Sekac centered by Eller, is A) a hope Sekac has a good defensive game and B) based on having a really good shut-down line, with two-way ability. Eller and Sekac give Pleks some big linemates, something he hasn't had in a awhile. You already know my view of making him a winger.
Finally, then line with Bourque, DD, and PAP is the ultimate wildcard line. This is a line you probably want to shelter defensively, seeing as you can. Yet, if they come to play it's a line that can win games. It has speed, possession ability, and at least one player who plays physical. (Again, when he decides to play) You're also putting your most unreliable players on the same line, which sometimes makes them more reliable as you don't expect **** from them.
As for the Manny, Prust, Weise line, I'm probably overvaluing this line, but I really like Weise and Manny was a solid addition. I personally think this will be one of the best fourth lines we've had in awhile, especially considering we can sub in either Moen or Bournival.
Ideally I'd like to see DD moved and have Chuckie, Eller and Pleks as our centers, but I'm being practical with what he have... In my own view.
Hope this explanation puts some reason behind my idea. I really don't expect everyone, or anyone for that matter, to agree. I'm just hoping people will start debating the matter, not simply claiming "It's ridiculous, he's our best two-way center." And leaving it at that.
Edit: Actually, I don't hope for anything. I just wanted to explain myself. People will still think I'm Pejorative Slured.
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It's unfair to generalize as there are a lot of thoughtful individuals here who give up a crazy amount of time writing books that parade as posts. Kudos to them. Can't wait to be retired so that I can engage in a similar pursuit. Not.
However, one thing is certain, some people will throw out their better judgment when it comes to players or ideas they are inextricably attached to, for whatever reason, especially when their attachment is emotional. And once they've made their point, we can go through thousands of posts and no one will ever admit to being wrong about anything.
However, should you have a contrary opinion, one's mental state will be questioned at some point in the process. Whenever you start a thread, that process is accelerated, given the extra scrutiny.
I just have to learn to take it. I like hearing other peoples' opinions too much. It's either that or learn how to write my questions in such a way that it appears I'm giving no opinion.
In the presented situation it is either him or Galchenyuk on LW.
Galchenyuk's greatest weakness as of last year was his lack of strength, imo.
So either him or Plekanec, doesnt change much in that regard.
The main problems would be A face offs and B lack of defensive awareness if the plan fails.
Plekanec is not a great passer (he still is good), Galchenyuk is.
Plekanec used to play LW, Galchenyuk was a C/RW.
Eller was tried at wing he sucked balls.
People don't even wanna hear it when it comes to moving Desharnais on the wing.
Eller can manage defensively, so can Desharnais (I must admit, boy did he hustle during the playoff series vs Boston), supposedly.
Plekanec had a 51 points season playing with Staubitz and Moen, Darche etc for half of it. Desharnais plays sheltered minutes, with Cole and Pacioretty, gets 60 points.
Offensively, overall, Plekanec has shown he is the better of the 4 (as of last year).
But doesnt have the best vision. He has speed, and some hands. And he is used to play LW. Plus it would allow Big Mike and Young Berg to see what are they working with. If it does work, every player on the roster gains value : GMs and scouts will notice that Pacioretty and Desharnais can handle tougher assignments, that Eller, given more O-zone starts and offensive responsibilities can produce more, Galchenyuk learns his role with Plekanec who is the best mentor to develop a great 2-way game.
If it doesnt work, well its back to the way it was. And thats it.
To me it makes too much sense. Tweak the lines to your liking, but if what I have written doesnt make any sense at all, may lightning strike me right now.
In the presented situation it is either him or Galchenyuk on LW.
Galchenyuk's greatest weakness as of last year was his lack of strength, imo.
So either him or Plekanec, doesnt change much in that regard.
The main problems would be A face offs and B lack of defensive awareness if the plan fails.
Plekanec is not a great passer (he still is good), Galchenyuk is.
Plekanec used to play LW, Galchenyuk was a C/RW.
Eller was tried at wing he sucked balls.
People don't even wanna hear it when it comes to moving Desharnais on the wing.
Eller can manage defensively, so can Desharnais (I must admit, boy did he hustle during the playoff series vs Boston), supposedly.
Plekanec had a 51 points season playing with Staubitz and Moen, Darche etc for half of it. Desharnais plays sheltered minutes, with Cole and Pacioretty, gets 60 points.
Offensively, overall, Plekanec has shown he is the better of the 4 (as of last year).
But doesnt have the best vision. He has speed, and some hands. And he is used to play LW. Plus it would allow Big Mike and Young Berg to see what are they working with. If it does work, every player on the roster gains value : GMs and scouts will notice that Pacioretty and Desharnais can handle tougher assignments, that Eller, given more O-zone starts and offensive responsibilities can produce more, Galchenyuk learns his role with Plekanec who is the best mentor to develop a great 2-way game.
If it doesnt work, well its back to the way it was. And thats it.
To me it makes too much sense. Tweak the lines to your liking, but if what I have written doesnt make any sense at all, may lightning strike me right now.
Haha, of course I totally agree with you. Although I do believe our ability in the face off circle has gone up dramatically since last year. Manny was one of the best face off guys, and we added him to our roster at the cost of Briere/White, both of whom are not as good. You can always throw Manny on the ice to take the face off then GTFO.
Milhouse40
Registered User
- Aug 19, 2010
- 22,145
- 24,760
Pacioretty - Plekanec - Parenteau (2-way more offensive minded)
Bourque - Eller - Gallagher (2-way more defensive minded)
Prust - Galchenyuk - Sekac (Sheltered energy lines)
Moen - Malhotra - Weise (Defensive line)
- Finally try Eller as a top 6 defensive center, with Plek still there to ease the transition and not throwing him to the wolves right away.
- Finally try Galchenyuk at center, with Eller and Plek in front of him taking the hard match-up, leaving him good ice-time to learn the position. Prust to protect the kid and be the defensive presence (Remember the line of Prust-Galchenyuk-Gallagher?)
- Give Plek more offensive missions, getting more points, getting a better value.
- Top 9 much more bigger and tougher this way. Center line is finally bigger. Having Prust playing top 9 is something that can be very helpful if he's healthy, gives us some grit and protection for aall the young kids moving up.
Best case scenario: Galchy take the year to get confortable at center and then jump at #1, Eller prove to be able to learn and take #2 defensive role, Plek got top value for a trade.
Worst case scenario: Plek take back defensive role, Eller 3rd line and Galchenyuk will defenitely better option for #1 center by then.
Mayby the team won't be any better that way...but it will eventually be and players/kids will progress.
You all saw DD is anywhere.....that's why his presence bother me.
Bourque - Eller - Gallagher (2-way more defensive minded)
Prust - Galchenyuk - Sekac (Sheltered energy lines)
Moen - Malhotra - Weise (Defensive line)
- Finally try Eller as a top 6 defensive center, with Plek still there to ease the transition and not throwing him to the wolves right away.
- Finally try Galchenyuk at center, with Eller and Plek in front of him taking the hard match-up, leaving him good ice-time to learn the position. Prust to protect the kid and be the defensive presence (Remember the line of Prust-Galchenyuk-Gallagher?)
- Give Plek more offensive missions, getting more points, getting a better value.
- Top 9 much more bigger and tougher this way. Center line is finally bigger. Having Prust playing top 9 is something that can be very helpful if he's healthy, gives us some grit and protection for aall the young kids moving up.
Best case scenario: Galchy take the year to get confortable at center and then jump at #1, Eller prove to be able to learn and take #2 defensive role, Plek got top value for a trade.
Worst case scenario: Plek take back defensive role, Eller 3rd line and Galchenyuk will defenitely better option for #1 center by then.
Mayby the team won't be any better that way...but it will eventually be and players/kids will progress.
You all saw DD is anywhere.....that's why his presence bother me.
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