Prospect Info: Lenni Hämeenaho (#58 Pick - 2nd Round - 2023 Draft)

[My3Sons]

While I agree his skating is his biggest deficiency, on a team surrounded by great skaters a poor skater can thrive in todays NHL

Its the same reason Tofolli will be a stud for us; its also why Id kill for a prime Ryan Clowe on this team

Palat isnt the greatest skater (today) and fits very well.

His defensive responsibility along with his IQ will make for an easier transition than 90% of poor skaters, who tend to be offensively-driven and struggle in a league where playmaking and puck possession are mostly moving your feet.

Hopefully you are right. The league is just getting faster and faster and it makes me think the baseline of acceptably poor skater is higher than It was even five years ago.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Hopefully you are right. The league is just getting faster and faster and it makes me think the baseline of acceptably poor skater is higher than It was even five years ago.

What you say isnt wrong but also needs to take into account the Devils are one of the fastest and best skating teams in the league

Ill liken it to a catch and shoot guard in the NBA. A lot of these types are guys who ten or twenty years ago would have been able to create on their own; but due to the massive uptick in average size in the NBA, along with athleticism rising in a sport where two of its positions were once entirely immobile big men, they now need extra spacing

If Lenni possesses the IQ Fitzgerald consistently looks for as his #1 trait in a prospect, he will be able to adjust his game to suit the needs of the line he is on. Admittedly that line would require speed around him but, in the same way those C'n'3 shooters now require a big to set a pick at the top of the arc, a plan of action can be drawn up for a responsibly-smart player

 

[My3Sons]

What you say isnt wrong but also needs to take into account the Devils are one of the fastest and best skating teams in the league

Ill liken it to a catch and shoot guard in the NBA. A lot of these types are guys who ten or twenty years ago would have been able to create on their own; but due to the massive uptick in average size in the NBA, along with athleticism rising in a sport where two of its positions were once entirely immobile big men, they now need extra spacing

If Lenni possesses the IQ Fitzgerald consistently looks for as his #1 trait in a prospect, he will be able to adjust his game to suit the needs of the line he is on. Admittedly that line would require speed around him but, in the same way those C'n'3 shooters now require a big to set a pick at the top of the arc, a plan of action can be drawn up for a responsibly-smart player

That’s fair and I get the analogy. There is still a threshold he will have to cross high IQ or no IQ but your scenario for him makes sense as a prospect.

 

[Pataatti]

I am a fan of Ässät so you can take everything I say with a grain of salt. But I think you got a steal in the draft.

Lenni was not "meant to" play as much as he did this season. He just was too good and played well enough to earn a spot in the team. Because of that I don't think he was physically ready for full season in the seniors but he still earned his spot in the first line.

Lenni also scored 21 points in one of the least scoring teams in the league, which is pretty high for a 2nd rounder (last years first overall Slafkovsky scored 10, maybe not fully comparable but still).

Lennis weakness has been his physicality and skating. I'm not too worried about his physicality since Ässät has some hard working veterans in the team currently and I think it will help him a lot for the future. And yes his skating is his weakness but I think it's been a bit overblown. We'll see how big of a problem it will be in the future.

Like i said I'm an Ässät fan so I'm propably biased but overall I think you will pleased in 2-3 years.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

I'm thinking he will play 1 more season over there before he is signed to an ELC and comes to NA.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I think it's a great point made earlier about his confidence level and willingness to try things. I respect that attribute a lot and it's not exactly common among prospects because of ego, fear, etc. but, no matter what you do in life, it's a quality that accelerates progress.

Aside from the skating, as I said earlier, I'm almost surprised by how bad his hands are. His shot is good which is what makes it twice as confusing.

Most intriguing prospect since Mukh and Misyul.

I would argue Hameenaho is not in the conversation for most intriguing player NJ drafted in 2023. He's pretty simple to me. If he improves his skating a lot -- a lot -- he'll be an NHLer, probably a really good 3rd liner who can slot up to the 2nd line in a pinch. If he improves his skating to a reasonable but more realistic degree? He'll have a shot at a 4th line in the NHL. If he doesn't improve his skating significantly? He's not making the NHL.

This singular -- but elementary and easily supportable -- hypothesis makes Hameenaho's projection quite rudimentary in my opinion. It's also why I thought he'd be a good pick in the 4th or 5th round.

Again, as a Devils fan and a guy who roots for the prospects vehemently, I'd point to Hameenaho's incredible hockey IQ and character and compete level and say if anyone can beat the odds, it's him. He certainly knows what he has to do to make the big leagues. But it's also important to keep in mind that the odds with a prospect like Hameenaho -- whose only high-end traits are intangibles and is saddled by a major red flag with the skating -- are very low.

 

[BurntToast]

I think this pick could be a byproduct of Dawson Mercers, success. (And Holtz’s struggles)

Hockey Sense is hard to rank, but this kid just seems to end up in the right places. There are some fast players who never get close to the net or struggle on the boards.

Hockey Sense can mitigate skating and speed issues. If you can anticipate where the puck is going, you don’t need to be as fast. Also a prospect who is a “bad” skater who finds success, doesn’t need to become Jack Hughes, if they improve to an “average/ok” it could result in a major improvement.

Lets not act like every prospect has an opportunity to hire a skating coach before the draft. It an expensive sport.

For a second round pick, I cant complain.

 

[Devs3cups]

RW Lenni Hämeenaho - Ässät U20, U20 SM-sarja (2023, 58th, NJD)

EP says he will be playing in Liiga next year, but not sure. Thought there might be a thread out there for him, but didn't see one. https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/642183/lenni-hameenaho

forums.hfboards.com

Don't know if this has been shared yet, but this is his thread on the main prospects board. Some good insights from posters familiar with Finnish hockey and a lot of highlights.

I didn't hate the pick at all when they did it, but I'm warming up to this kid. He seems to have high IQ and poise, a good shot and he looks very good around the net. I don't think he'll ever be a 1st line offensive juggernaut, but I think he could be a very solid middle-6 player for us. As has been mentioned, the skating needs some work, (he even said so himself in hiss media availability) but his tools are very interesting and his production as an 18 year old inn Liiga is a good sign.

 

[devilsblood]

RW Lenni Hämeenaho - Ässät U20, U20 SM-sarja (2023, 58th, NJD)

EP says he will be playing in Liiga next year, but not sure. Thought there might be a thread out there for him, but didn't see one. https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/642183/lenni-hameenaho

forums.hfboards.com

Don't know if this has been shared yet, but this is his thread on the main prospects board. Some good insights from posters familiar with Finnish hockey and a lot of highlights.

I didn't hate the pick at all when they did it, but I'm warming up to this kid. He seems to have high IQ and poise, a good shot and he looks very good around the net. I don't think he'll ever be a 1st line offensive juggernaut, but I think he could be a very solid middle-6 player for us. As has been mentioned, the skating needs some work, (he even said so himself in hiss media availability) but his tools are very interesting and his production as an 18 year old inn Liiga is a good sign.

Decent tidbit in there, Lenni was scoreless in his first 18 gp's this season,(despite 26 sog's). Thus 9 goals in his last 33, and then 3 more in 8 playoff games.

Not surprisingly, those guys had a pretty good grasp of what kind of prospect he was from early on in the season. A probable 2nd rounder, whose #1 issue is skating.

I think the fact that his skating has been a known issue for awhile lends to the idea that that narrative has snow balled and is likely now overblown.

Obviously an issue, but not as bad as some make out, and from my viewings, that seems about right.

 

[BurntToast]

What’s funny is hockey news had him going 27 to Colorado in their mock draft.

He was ranked high by Central scouting. The Hockey Writers, Dober and Mckenzie had ranked late first/early second.

What’s also wild to me, is the disparity of reviews on his skating. Is he a bad skater or just slow?

 

[devilsblood]

What’s funny is hockey news had him going 27 to Colorado in their mock draft.

He was ranked high by Central scouting. The Hockey Writers, Dober and Mckenzie had ranked late first/early second.

What’s also wild to me, is the disparity of reviews on his skating. Is he a bad skater or just slow?

From my takes, his speed looks OK, but his feet flop around. Just sloppy and inefficient.

Now more thorough viewings may highlight his lack of speed, but again, I thought he looked adequate, and if I had to choose between a very slow guy with OK looking mechanics, vs an OK speed guy with lousy mechanics, I'm taking the latter all day. The latter to me suggests it can be fixed, at least to some extent, not so much the former.

And @Triumph made a good point early on in that, "one of the worst skaters in this draft" as some called him, is not playing,(let alone playing fairly well) in Liiga at 18 years old. Definitely think it's overblown.

 

[Guttersniped]

I actually don’t sweat speed if the mechanics are ok. It depends on how slow you’re talking about though and what you mean about speed.

An example is Gritsyuk who fell because of his skating. You might find write-ups that don’t sound particularly negative about it but the bar is higher for skating when you’re drafted at 5’10” and 169.

His mechanics were always good, people were worried because he didn’t have separation as a teen. More core strength improves speed though. (And I guess it did with him, though honestly never seen more than highlights of his recent games.)

While generally speed = awesome, l care more about acceleration than top speed on open ice, unless they are slow as f***.

Acceleration obviously affects speed too (which is why I said it depends on your definition).

How efficient and powerful their first steps are critical. For example, obviously Luke’s acceleration is off the charts, but Nemec’s acceleration is just spooky good, it’s like he just suddenly pops up down the ice.

And mechanics are always important. I have hope for Hämeenaho because he does seem have the characteristics of players who have overcome somewhat dodgy mechanics: hockey intelligence, a nice development curve, good work ethic, etc. It’s not easy to do, especially since some of them come from how you’re built and walk. (The way they’ve been described makes them sound at least a bit dodgy.)

It will be interesting to see him in 3v3 because that really highlights agility. (Poor Pytlik was an absolute train-wreck with that last year, he’s a not so agile skater.)

 

[devilsblood]

I actually don’t sweat speed if the mechanics are ok. It depends on how slow you’re talking about though and what you mean about speed.

An example is Gritsyuk who fell because of his skating. You might find write-ups that don’t sound particularly negative about it but the bar is higher for skating when you’re drafted at 5’10” and 169.

His mechanics were always good, people were worried because he didn’t have separation as a teen. More core strength improves speed though. (And I guess it did with him, though honestly never seen more than highlights of his recent games.)

While generally speed = awesome, l care more about acceleration than top speed on open ice, unless they are slow as f***.

Acceleration obviously affects speed too (which is why I said it depends on your definition).

How efficient and powerful their first steps are critical. For example, obviously Luke’s acceleration is off the charts, but Nemec’s acceleration is just spooky good, it’s like he just suddenly pops up down the ice.

And mechanics are always important. I have hope for Hämeenaho because he does seem have the characteristics of players who have overcome somewhat dodgy mechanics: hockey intelligence, a nice development curve, good work ethic, etc. It’s not easy to do, especially since some of them come from how you’re built and walk. (The way they’ve been described makes them sound at least a bit dodgy.)

It will be interesting to see him in 3v3 because that really highlights agility. (Poor Pytlik was an absolute train-wreck with that last year, he’s a not so agile skater.)

Yeah we are the opposite on this topic.

For example I thought Ty Smith's mechanics looked good, but was just slow. Holtz I think is kind of in this boat as well. Boucher another. It's super rare for guys to go from slow to not slow, let alone to fast, which I'll say never happens.

I do agree on the distinction between acceleration(I often refer to as quickness) vs top end speed. Guys can be one but not the other. Wood, especially this past year was def more fast then quick.
I also agree on a high IQ/good work ethic guy is more likely to improve, then guy lower in those categories.

 

[Nubmer6]

Yeah we are the opposite on this topic.

For example I thought Ty Smith's mechanics looked good, but was just slow. Holtz I think is kind of in this boat as well. Boucher another. It's super rare for guys to go from slow to not slow, let alone to fast, which I'll say never happens.

I do agree on the distinction between acceleration(I often refer to as quickness) vs top end speed. Guys can be one but not the other. Wood, especially this past year was def more fast then quick.
I also agree on a high IQ/good work ethic guy is more likely to improve, then guy lower in those categories.

I definitely think quickness is more important than top speed. I mean, it's nice to have both, but if forced to chose between the two, I'd take the quicker guy.

 

[Guttersniped]

Yeah we are the opposite on this topic.

For example I thought Ty Smith's mechanics looked good, but was just slow. Holtz I think is kind of in this boat as well. Boucher another. It's super rare for guys to go from slow to not slow, let alone to fast, which I'll say never happens.

I do agree on the distinction between acceleration(I often refer to as quickness) vs top end speed. Guys can be one but not the other. Wood, especially this past year was def more fast then quick.
I also agree on a high IQ/good work ethic guy is more likely to improve, then guy lower in those categories.

I didn’t have a huge problem with Smith’s skating, his problem was more that he got pushed around like a large child in tighter areas and it led to his confidence imploding.

I thought Smith was going to get stronger/sturdier than he did at that point. He had just turned 22 in his last games with us, he still can get stronger.

I veer into what feels like (badly) ladysplaining male physiology on this board and it feels weird at best.

Male muscle strength peaks later in the 20s, around ~25-30. (I read that on the internet, not a lot of personal experience with that sort of thing.) So Smith, like other smaller players, could peak later.

Larger players can gain more speed easier, though people sometimes assume that’s a given. Skating expectations for smaller players are basically sky high because they have to make up for their size disadvantage.

I edited my original post down though, I swear we aren’t completely at odds. I had “unless the player is very slow” as a problem somewhere, it’s not like I don’t believe in speed as concept or something. I’m not a weirdo contrarian. (I swear.)

I just think strength can help in some ways and some mechanics are more fixable than others. (And only some players put in the work and/or get the guidance needed to correctly fix them.)

Boucher’s skating was so bad there was a question if he would even get drafted. And his skating did improve, starting in his D+1 season, and he did almost make it. His skating went from awful to not that good though.

A lack of size, not great speed or agility, and poor puck skills was too tough to overcome with just scoring ability (and he turned out to be a shitty person too, so there’s that).

Holtz is really more of pace thing to me, he just plays the game slower. If he tried to skate around like a maniac he wouldn’t be playing his game. He tries to slow the game down that’s very difficult to do unless you’re an elite player.

When a team drafts a player they have to figure out if his skills and play style will work in the NHL. If our team have buyer’s remorse with Holtz then they didn’t think through what kind of player he would be when he got here. (Seriously, you didn’t have to be hockey Nostradamus to see this coming.)

But obviously more speed and better skating from him would help him too.

 

[My3Sons]

I didn’t have a huge problem with Smith’s skating, his problem was more that he got pushed around like a large child in tighter areas and it led to his confidence imploding.

I thought Smith was going to get stronger/sturdier than he did at that point. He had just turned 22 in his last games with us, he still can get stronger.

I veer into what feels like (badly) ladysplaining male physiology on this board and it feels weird at best.

Male muscle strength peaks later in the 20s, around ~25-30. (I read that on the internet, not a lot of personal experience with that sort of thing.) So Smith, like other smaller players, could peak later.

Larger players can gain more speed easier, though people sometimes assume that’s a given. Skating expectations for smaller players are basically sky high because they have to make up for their size disadvantage.

I edited my original post down though, I swear we aren’t completely at odds. I had “unless the player is very slow” as a problem somewhere, it’s not like I don’t believe in speed as concept or something. I’m not a weirdo contrarian. (I swear.)

I just think strength can help in some ways and some mechanics are more fixable than others. (And only some players put in the work and/or get the guidance needed to correctly fix them.)

Boucher’s skating was so bad there was a question if he would even get drafted. And his skating did improve, starting in his D+1 season, and he did almost make it. His skating went from awful to not that good though.

A lack of size, not great speed or agility, and poor puck skills was too tough to overcome with just scoring ability (and he turned out to be a shitty person too, so there’s that).

Holtz is really more of pace thing to me, he just plays the game slower. If he tried to skate around like a maniac he wouldn’t be playing his game. He tries to slow the game down that’s very difficult to do unless you’re an elite player.

When a team drafts a player they have to figure out if his skills and play style will work in the NHL. If our team have buyer’s remorse with Holtz then they didn’t think through what kind of player he would be when he got here. (Seriously, you didn’t have to be hockey Nostradamus to see this coming.)

But obviously more speed and better skating from him would help him too.

Holtz looks like he’s struggling to make quick decisions on the ice when I watch him. He can move decently enough if it was easy for him to know what to do and where to go. With enough experience and coaching and repetitions he’d probably be ok but is that something the team will have the patience for?

 

[StevenToddIves]

From my takes, his speed looks OK, but his feet flop around. Just sloppy and inefficient.

Now more thorough viewings may highlight his lack of speed, but again, I thought he looked adequate, and if I had to choose between a very slow guy with OK looking mechanics, vs an OK speed guy with lousy mechanics, I'm taking the latter all day. The latter to me suggests it can be fixed, at least to some extent, not so much the former.

And @Triumph made a good point early on in that, "one of the worst skaters in this draft" as some called him, is not playing,(let alone playing fairly well) in Liiga at 18 years old. Definitely think it's overblown.

I would have great trouble naming a player whose skating I would rate lower than Hameenaho's taken in the 2nd or 3rd round of the 2023 draft, but I'm open to the debate if someone can find a player comparable.

Again, I would be fine with this at #58 overall if he had some sort of singular elite physical tool, whether it be shooting or vision or whatnot. But though I'd call Hameenaho a "plus shooter", his only elite tools are intangibles -- hockey IQ and compete level. Now, although I factor these intangible qualities into my rankings more than any draft analyst I've ever seen, they usually need to be combined with physical qualities in order to assure success at the pro level.

Though we can certainly find some NHL exceptions to this rule, we'd be hard-pressed to name NHL top 6 forwards who apply. Maybe Mark Stone? But still, I'd say Stone is a high-end shooter with plus passing ability.

 

[devilsblood]

his only elite tools are intangibles -- hockey IQ and compete level. Now, although I factor these intangible qualities into my rankings more than any draft analyst I've ever seen, they usually need to be combined with physical qualities in order to assure success at the pro level.

Though we can certainly find some NHL exceptions to this rule, we'd be hard-pressed to name NHL top 6 forwards who apply. Maybe Mark Stone? But still, I'd say Stone is a high-end shooter with plus passing ability.

It might be time to reign it in a little.

 

[ninetyeight]

This positivity is all good and I hope he makes it, I really do! But skating makes or breaks players and Liiga is a whole different league. Not just by talent but playstyle and pacing. The best U18 ever in Liiga, Kaapo Kakko, has struggled a lot due to his skating and he's way better skater than Lenni.

 

[BurntToast]

This positivity is all good and I hope he makes it, I really do! But skating makes or breaks players and Liiga is a whole different league. Not just by talent but playstyle and pacing. The best U18 ever in Liiga, Kaapo Kakko, has struggled a lot due to his skating and he's way better skater than Lenni.

I think Kakko is a fine skater, his hockey IQ though, woof. Kakko isn’t the fastest, but he skates around holding the puck too long. Wide ice allows you to do that, NHL not so much. I don’t think the Devils are rushing this guy into the NHL, like the Rangers did to Kakko.

This will be an interesting topic in a few years. Can a guy with high intangibles, out produce his physical ability? There is a wasteland of talented guys, who struggled with adversity (for the first time, sometimes) to get into the NHL and flame out.

 

[StevenToddIves]

It might be time to reign it in a little.

Not really. Many draft writers will describe hockey IQ and compete level as more or less unquantifiable. In my gajillion write ups over the past half-decade, I'm constantly stating the opposite and referring to them almost incessantly. A great example would be Dawson Mercer, who I raved about all year long in his draft-eligible campaign for these very reasons. A less-great example would be Aarne Talvite, who I also raved about for these qualities, but did not develop into the very good middle 6 forward I envisioned.

But I don't think the fact I've always harped on intangibles is really much of a debatable topic.

With Hameenaho, intangibles are his finest qualities, as he does not particularly stand out athletically. He has a good shot and he's a good passer, but neither trait is what I'd really call "high end". His puck handling is probably below average and his skating is well below average. But what gave Hameenaho the ability to succeed in Liiga as a teenager -- which is very uncommon and noteworthy -- is that he's such a hard-worker with an incredibly high hockey IQ. He's just a bright kid with a big heart.

Again, this gives me hope he'll make the NHL in some capacity. But the athletic limitations will be a lot to overcome, which is what I've been saying on these threads, and I also think it's a legitimate point. If you want to debate that, then that's what these threads are here for. If you want to debate my own bloated opinions on the importance of intangible qualities in NHL prospects, that will be tougher, because there are probably 100s of pages of me doing precisely this.

 

[ninetyeight]

I think Kakko is a fine skater, his hockey IQ though, woof. Kakko isn’t the fastest, but he skates around holding the puck too long. Wide ice allows you to do that, NHL not so much. I don’t think the Devils are rushing this guy into the NHL, like the Rangers did to Kakko.

Yeah his skating is "just fine" , among his poorish shot that's his most criticized flaw. He makes up for it in the ozone with his excellent puck protection, but his lack of speed definitely holds him back, ask any rangers fan. I don't think the Rangers rushing him is as big of a factor as most do.

 

[BurntToast]

He looked good today. Lenni had some great passes and both his hands and shot looked good.

 

[Devils731]

He looked good today. Lenni had some great passes and both his hands and shot looked good.

Any thoughts on his skating?

 

[BurntToast]

Any thoughts on his skating?

I didn’t get to see the games, but he looked good in his penalty shot video and the post on the Devils page said they were impressed with his hands and shot. He also had a nice helper. It doesn’t mean much but I rather have the Devils highest pick standout, than not.