This trade was necessary for both sides. Lehner needs a fresh start and the Sens have obviously decided to move in another direction for now and in the future. Shedding Legwand's contract is a bonus leaving room for a younger centre to grow. The move will be good for everyone.
Confirmed with Link: Lehner and Legwand to BUF for 21st overall
- Thread starter source
- Start date
You probably missed this discussion:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=104078471&highlight=bishop#post104078471
"He was UFA after the year, it was something or nothing."
"My understanding is that Group 6 UFA applies to goalies with under 28 games played. Bishop finished his time as a Sen with 36 career games and added 9 more as a Tbay Lightning"
"Yes, this is correct. He was going to be a RFA that summer, not UFA. He needed to play 28 games of at least 30 minutes up to that point in his career. I remember going into the shortened season, he needed to play 8 or so games to keep his RFA status. He hit that number before leaving Ottawa.
I've heard far too often that he would have been UFA. That was not the case."
"the 28 game number carries with it a minimum TOI... it doesn't count games where he came in to relieve a starting goalie partway through the game, there's like a 30 or 40 minute minimum threshold to count as a "game played" for the purpose of Group 6 for goalies. So Bishop had played 30-something games, but not all counted towards Group 6 status. "
MisterMethos
Registered User
I do like the deal but I am starting to wonder if Buffalo would have done it with Greening instead of Legwand and if need be we take Buffalo's 2nd (51st) instead of the 1st (21st) to get the deal done. Legs only had a year left and I would rather have him centering the 3rd or 4th line instead of Smith.
BloodRedArmy
Registered User
I just hope Lehner doesn't turn out to be another Bishop. The last thing we need is to have traded away 2 great goalies within the division.
Coco the Monkey*
Registered User
- Aug 31, 2010
- 1,435
- 1
ReginKarlssonLehner
Let's Win It All
If Lehner ends up like Bishop I wouldn't be too worried. White is gonna be a player.
I only fear Lehner becomes a top 5 goalie in the league.
I only fear Lehner becomes a top 5 goalie in the league.
danielpalfredsson
youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
- Aug 14, 2013
- 16,575
- 9,269
Lehner is still a prospect.
I'm not saying the divisional aspect didn't play into the trade, but the within the division fear is most prominent when a team is selling off a star UFA or a star for cap reasons in exchange for pieces that are of lower value, or won't make the team selling off their star better for years.
IE, Spezza wasn't going to an Atlantic team, let alone an Eastern team because Ottawa gave the team trading for him (Dallas) a top 6 center without actually making their own team any better any time soon.
In the Lehner trade, both teams got a what if. Granted Lehner is a lot more proven than any of the prospects who were around at 21, but he is still a what if.
If he becomes Rask, Varlamov, or Schneider, there'll be a lot of regret as those goalies are impossible to get...but that's a very long shot. Odds are, he becomes a middle of the pack or good starting goalie, which is something Buffalo could have eventually found without too much trouble so it was worth the gamble of giving them Lehner in order to get a much better return than Ottawa could have gotten from a Western team.
In certain scenarios, I'd be happier taking a lesser return to send him to Edmonton, but it would depend on the lesser return. 33rd+Legwand as a dump for Lehner? Assuming the Senators didn't think they'd be missing out on an amazing prospect by going back 12 picks, I'd do that instead.....but, it's impossible to know what was offered and who Ottawa thought would be where or how Ottawa saw the values based on scouting.
I'm not saying the divisional aspect didn't play into the trade, but the within the division fear is most prominent when a team is selling off a star UFA or a star for cap reasons in exchange for pieces that are of lower value, or won't make the team selling off their star better for years.
IE, Spezza wasn't going to an Atlantic team, let alone an Eastern team because Ottawa gave the team trading for him (Dallas) a top 6 center without actually making their own team any better any time soon.
In the Lehner trade, both teams got a what if. Granted Lehner is a lot more proven than any of the prospects who were around at 21, but he is still a what if.
If he becomes Rask, Varlamov, or Schneider, there'll be a lot of regret as those goalies are impossible to get...but that's a very long shot. Odds are, he becomes a middle of the pack or good starting goalie, which is something Buffalo could have eventually found without too much trouble so it was worth the gamble of giving them Lehner in order to get a much better return than Ottawa could have gotten from a Western team.
In certain scenarios, I'd be happier taking a lesser return to send him to Edmonton, but it would depend on the lesser return. 33rd+Legwand as a dump for Lehner? Assuming the Senators didn't think they'd be missing out on an amazing prospect by going back 12 picks, I'd do that instead.....but, it's impossible to know what was offered and who Ottawa thought would be where or how Ottawa saw the values based on scouting.
Precisely.
There are those that love Lehner, and they would gripe about the "hindsight is 20/20" argument if White vs. Lehner comparisons turn out in Buffalo's favour. But really, we gave up a goalie whose performance could rise or fall based on what we've seen of him so far. And a late 1st round pick isn't even certain to accomplish as much as Lehner has.
Lol, this fan base is still in denial about Bishop. I wonder how many cup runs he goes on before that changes
In denial about what?
Swap Bishop for Anderson and what's different? We couldn't have possibly had better goaltending in the regular season or playoffs last year. Bishop would not have made a difference but he would have cost the team more in salary.
Bishop is a good goalie. Nobody denies that, but he is not as good as Anderson IMO.
Does hindsight show that we could have traded Anderson instead of Bishop? Sure it does. But it doesn't show that our organization would be any closer to the cup.
I have a hunch that Bishop will not have the longest career due to his frame and be somewhat prone to injuries...just a hunch though.
Agree
People would say Anderson will have many cup runs instead of Bishop. We just can't win it.
I feel the same way
It's not the Bishop's run. It's Cooper's and Tampa's run. Swap Bishop for some other goalie and Tampa might have won the Cup this year or a year ago.
The STL fan base must be devastated going by some of the comments here. Imagine how many cups they could of won if only they would have kept Bishop instead of Elliott.
Get over it already. At the time of the trade Lehner had outplayed Bishop in the AHL and NHL. There was no doubt as to which goalie was going to be traded. TIM Murray probably made that call as well. If TB offered to trade Bishop for #21 he probably still would have taken Lehner. I guess you can say Tim made the wrong call back then, maybe he made the wrong call again. Time will tell. But until or if Lehmer crashes and burns, Tim Murray will always take Lehner. He's convinced he will become a star goalie, and it could very well happen. However, fact is, the team responded to Hammond in a way that they never did for Lehner. Team chemistry is what got them there last year. How much value is that worth? Lehner was never mentioned during THE RUN. It was only after the season ended that someone bothered asking how Lehner was doing.
Lehner has some growing up to do and fast. If he figures it out, he could become the next superstar goalie, if he doesn't he will become a superstar goalie only in his own mind. I personally hope he does figure it and goes on to do great things. The fact it won't be with the Sens will sting a bit but it won't get my shorts tied up in knots. I won't be like some people here still lamenting the Hossa trade ten years later. It's done and over with, look forward not behind.
Get over it already. At the time of the trade Lehner had outplayed Bishop in the AHL and NHL. There was no doubt as to which goalie was going to be traded. TIM Murray probably made that call as well. If TB offered to trade Bishop for #21 he probably still would have taken Lehner. I guess you can say Tim made the wrong call back then, maybe he made the wrong call again. Time will tell. But until or if Lehmer crashes and burns, Tim Murray will always take Lehner. He's convinced he will become a star goalie, and it could very well happen. However, fact is, the team responded to Hammond in a way that they never did for Lehner. Team chemistry is what got them there last year. How much value is that worth? Lehner was never mentioned during THE RUN. It was only after the season ended that someone bothered asking how Lehner was doing.
Lehner has some growing up to do and fast. If he figures it out, he could become the next superstar goalie, if he doesn't he will become a superstar goalie only in his own mind. I personally hope he does figure it and goes on to do great things. The fact it won't be with the Sens will sting a bit but it won't get my shorts tied up in knots. I won't be like some people here still lamenting the Hossa trade ten years later. It's done and over with, look forward not behind.
Very well said. I share your thoughts on Lehner too. I hope he can put it all together. He'll definitely have a better opportunity to do so in BUF than he ever had here with the Sens.
ESPN Insider's -
Twitter today
The 6th Sens @6thSens 3h3 hours ago
Reading Pronman's latest on ESPN Insider where he rates Colin White as Ottawa's new #1 prospect.
This too. He has the natural ability to be a solid goalie in this league. He has all the tools, but he just has developed a consistently in his game. It's not like Lehner has been absolute garbage since he's been in this league like some Sens fans seem to think. He's had some very strong games, and honestly, before Cameron took over and MacLean was running the show, we were an absolutely awful defensive team. I've lost track how many games either him or Anderson were forced to make 35-40 saves just to get the W or prevent us from being blown out over the past 3-4 years.
It seemed like things went from bad to worse for Lehner while he was here. From inconsistency, to arguments with the goalie coach to the concussion which essentially lost him his job it seems like it was time to go for Lehner.
For as long as we spent developing him, it's a shame things broke down along the line. Now we just gotta hope O'Connor is worth all this hype and Lehner doesn't become this top 10 goalie in the league. I wish him luck, but not too much luck against us
DrunkUncleDenis
Condra Fan
- Mar 27, 2012
- 11,820
- 1,682
They received horrendous goal keeping by a bad backup in that series. You put Andy in the Tampa goal and they'd likely be even better than they are IMO.
Agreed.
However, this fanbase needs to stop downplaying Bishop's ability to justify a bad trade. He's a good goalie, similar to Anderson IMO. I don't think most fans opposed to the Bishop trade were against moving him, but were opposed to the questionable asset management by Murray in regards to handling the three goalies at the time, which is a totally fair critique. I think the Lehner trade has balanced out the situation in hindsight because the return was amazing, but that original Bishop trade was awful and there's nothing anyone can say to convince me otherwise. Teams lose trades, we lost that trade, it happens (Save it Lindberg!). I also agree with one of the posters above that it's time to look forward, not backward. The Lehner deal was good, let's focus on continuing to building up from here and earn that contender label.
Coco the Monkey*
Registered User
- Aug 31, 2010
- 1,435
- 1
You can't say we lost the trade when we were going to lose bishop for nothing anyway.
Anderson is the better goalie.
In terms of asset management they turned a second round pick into an NHL ready prospect and a fourth rounder
We got a good return for him but still, it kinda hurts having to deal Lehner. I'd rather have held onto him, but at the same time I think he needed a fresh start with a new team. And we know how much Tim believes in him so Lehner will definitely get his chance with Buffalo
Ad
Upcoming events
-
Series Winner Boston Bruins vs Toronto Maple LeafsWagers: 3Staked: $10,932.00Event closes- Updated:
-
Game 6 Boston Bruins @ Toronto Maple Leafs - Boston leads series 3-2Wagers: 4Staked: $5,875.00Event closes
- Updated:
-
2024 NHL Draft Lottery Team that wins #1 pick - PICK ONLY ONE TEAMWagers: 8Staked: $6,200.00Event closes - 6 days from now- Updated: