Confirmed with Link: Lehner and Legwand to BUF for 21st overall

[h2]

You can't say we lost the trade when we were going to lose bishop for nothing anyway.

Anderson is the better goalie.

In terms of asset management they turned a second round pick into an NHL ready prospect and a fourth rounder

Bishop was a pending RFA. RFA's are still assets, not sure how that gets lost for nothing.

Anderson is the better goalie, but it's close.

 

[PatrickEaves]

Bishop was a pending RFA. RFA's are still assets, not sure how that gets lost for nothing.

Anderson is the better goalie, but it's close.

He wouldn't have been an RFA if he stayed in Ottawa. There's no way he would have reached the games played threshold.

 

[h2]

He wouldn't have been an RFA if he stayed in Ottawa. There's no way he would have reached the games played threshold.

He passed the threshold playing for us.

 

[PatrickEaves]

He passed the threshold playing for us.

No he didn't.

 

[h2]

No he didn't.

Simple math and the internet says otherwise.

http://web.archive.org/web/20130328095538/http:/www.capgeek.com/senators/

http://the6thsens.com/2013-articles/revisiting-the-ben-bishop-cory-conacher-trade.html

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

Simple math and the internet says otherwise.

http://web.archive.org/web/20130328095538/http:/www.capgeek.com/senators/

http://the6thsens.com/2013-articles/revisiting-the-ben-bishop-cory-conacher-trade.html

This has been rehashed several times. He was going to be a UFA.

This is not debatable. This is fact.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Lol, this fan base is still in denial about Bishop. I wonder how many cup runs he goes on before that changes

But but but...
Yup

 

[h2]

This has been rehashed several times. He was going to be a UFA.

This is not debatable. This is fact.

I have no problem accepting facts, but I haven't seen any from the contrarian side.

Here are the facts:

Bishop was a qualifying group 6 free agent (less than 28 nhl gp needing at least 30min icetime to qualify each game, with 3 years of professional experience over the age of 25) when we first acquired him, he signed an extension with us anyway. That group 6 status carried over into the next season in 2012-2013 until he crossed that barrier:

GP 1 (30min+) -> STL vs LAK (2008-10-24)
GP 2 (30min+) -> STL vs FLA (2008-10-25)
GP 3 (30min+) -> STL vs WSH (2008-12-18)
GP 4 (30min+) -> STL vs ANA (2011-02-19)
GP 5 (30min+) -> STL vs CHI (2011-02-21)
GP 6 (30min+) -> STL vs EDM (2011-02-25)
GP 7 (30min+) -> STL vs CGY (2011-02-27)
GP 8 (30min+) -> STL vs CGY (2011-03-01)
GP 9 (30min+) -> STL vs NYI (2011-03-05)
GP 10 (30min+) -> STL vs CBJ (2011-03-07)
GP 11 (30min+) -> OTT vs TBL (2012-03-06)
GP 12 (30min+) -> OTT vs NYR (2012-03-08)
GP 13 (30min+) -> OTT vs BUF (2012-03-10)
GP 14 (30min+) -> OTT vs MTL (2012-03-14)
GP 15 (30min+) -> OTT vs MTL (2012-03-16)
GP 16 (30min+) -> OTT vs TOR (2012-03-17)
GP 17 (30min+) -> OTT vs NJD (2012-03-20)
GP 18 (30min+) -> OTT vs BOS (2012-04-05)
GP 19 (30min+) -> OTT vs TBL (2013-01-25)
GP 20 (30min+) -> OTT vs WPG (2013-02-09)
GP 21 (30min+) -> OTT vs NJD (2013-02-18)
GP 22 (30min+) -> OTT vs TOR (2013-02-23)
GP 23 (30min+) -> OTT vs MTL (2013-02-25)
GP 24 (30min+) -> OTT vs PHI (2013-03-02)
GP 25 (30min+) -> OTT vs TOR (2013-03-06)
GP 26 (30min+) -> OTT vs BUF (2013-03-16)
GP 27 (30min+) -> OTT vs NYI (2013-03-19)
GP 28 (30min+) -> OTT vs NJD (2013-03-25)

There's 28gp right there, ufa group 6 status averted.

If I'm wrong, I'd genuinely like to know. Capgeek and credible bloggers like the6thsens have also taken contrarian positions to this claim.

Edit* The official NHL transaction link also refers to Bishop as a RFA during the OTT-TB trade: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=663788

 

[BigBush*]

In denial about what?

Swap Bishop for Anderson and what's different? We couldn't have possibly had better goaltending in the regular season or playoffs last year. Bishop would not have made a difference but he would have cost the team more in salary.

Bishop is a good goalie. Nobody denies that, but he is not as good as Anderson IMO.

Does hindsight show that we could have traded Anderson instead of Bishop? Sure it does. But it doesn't show that our organization would be any closer to the cup.

my comment was directed towards the numerous comments that i read on here by Sens fans who constantly downplay Bishop.

He's a good goalie, end of story. Is he better then Anderson? Probably not, they seem pretty close. Bishop is just 5 years younger.

Am I using hindsight? Completely, I loved the trade at the time. I thought Lehner was going to take over the starters job in 1-2 years and I thought Conacher was for sure a top 6 forward.

Since Bishop broke into the league, he played great in Ottawa, and had 2 good seasons in Tampa, including a real solid playoff run. Lets pray Lehner doesnt develop into a goalie thats on Bishops level

 

[h2]

my comment was directed towards the numerous comments that i read on here by Sens fans who constantly downplay Bishop.

Similarly, this is also why I started posting on this thread. Too many haters and they needed to be called out.

 

[BigBush*]

Similarly, this is also why I started posting on this thread. Too many haters and they needed to be called out.

exactly. its what i hate about this site. too many people get caught up in their own team and cant just judge hockey and players objectively.

oiler fans are by far the worst for this lol

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

I legitatmately think Bishop is overrated but that doesnt change that we got the worse end of the trade but ive seen people say hes a top 10 goalie...hes not imo. He faces the lowest amount of shots of any starting goalie. Saying bishop is a top ten goalie was almost like people overreacting to Elliott in St.Louis after he had a .940 save percentage in 38 games with the team

Anderson imo is a better goalie then Bishop but lots of sens fans seem to have grown apathetic to the quality of his play. Anderson probably moves left to right or vice versa 100s of times more then bishop in the average game. Anderson has to work a lot harder then Bishop in goal because the sens are bad defensively and play in their own zone a lot

Bishop isnt a bad goalie. Hes a fairly good one...i just take issue with people aying hes an elite goalie. Obviously other people are allowed to have different opinions

 

[BigBush*]

I legitatmately think Bishop is overrated that doesnt change we got the worse end of the trade but ive seen people say hes a top 10 goalie...hes not imo. He faces the lowest amount of shots of any starting goalie. Saying bishop is a top ten goalie was almost like people overreacting to Elliott in St.Louis after he had a .940 save percentage in 38 games with the team

I dont know about the Elliot comparisons...

Top 10 goalie? I think Bishop falls just outside of it. You could make an easy argument for him being a top 10 goalie though. Considering he was a Vezina nominee last year and had a really good playoffs this year (2 game 7 shutouts ).

I agree that he is (slightly) overrated on here though. Playing on a good team like Tampa definitely helps him a ton.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

I dont know about the Elliot comparisons...

Top 10 goalie? I think Bishop falls just outside of it. You could make an easy argument for him being a top 10 goalie though. Considering he was a Vezina nominee last year and had a really good playoffs this year (2 game 7 shutouts ).

I agree that he is (slightly) overrated on here though. Playing on a good team like Tampa definitely helps him a ton.

Elliott has been able to put some elite numbers up on the Blues because how good they are defensively. Bishop has been able to put up better numbers playing on Tampa because they are good defensively.

Thats where the comparison ends.

 

[Micklebot]

I have no problem accepting facts, but I haven't seen any from the contrarian side.

Here are the facts:

Bishop was a qualifying group 6 free agent (less than 28 nhl gp needing at least 30min icetime to qualify each game, with 3 years of professional experience over the age of 25) when we first acquired him, he signed an extension with us anyway. That group 6 status carried over into the next season in 2012-2013 until he crossed that barrier:

GP 1 (30min+) -> STL vs LAK (2008-10-24)
GP 2 (30min+) -> STL vs FLA (2008-10-25)
GP 3 (30min+) -> STL vs WSH (2008-12-18)
GP 4 (30min+) -> STL vs ANA (2011-02-19)
GP 5 (30min+) -> STL vs CHI (2011-02-21)
GP 6 (30min+) -> STL vs EDM (2011-02-25)
GP 7 (30min+) -> STL vs CGY (2011-02-27)
GP 8 (30min+) -> STL vs CGY (2011-03-01)
GP 9 (30min+) -> STL vs NYI (2011-03-05)
GP 10 (30min+) -> STL vs CBJ (2011-03-07)
GP 11 (30min+) -> OTT vs TBL (2012-03-06)
GP 12 (30min+) -> OTT vs NYR (2012-03-08)
GP 13 (30min+) -> OTT vs BUF (2012-03-10)
GP 14 (30min+) -> OTT vs MTL (2012-03-14)
GP 15 (30min+) -> OTT vs MTL (2012-03-16)
GP 16 (30min+) -> OTT vs TOR (2012-03-17)
GP 17 (30min+) -> OTT vs NJD (2012-03-20)
GP 18 (30min+) -> OTT vs BOS (2012-04-05)
GP 19 (30min+) -> OTT vs TBL (2013-01-25)
GP 20 (30min+) -> OTT vs WPG (2013-02-09)
GP 21 (30min+) -> OTT vs NJD (2013-02-18)
GP 22 (30min+) -> OTT vs TOR (2013-02-23)
GP 23 (30min+) -> OTT vs MTL (2013-02-25)
GP 24 (30min+) -> OTT vs PHI (2013-03-02)
GP 25 (30min+) -> OTT vs TOR (2013-03-06)
GP 26 (30min+) -> OTT vs BUF (2013-03-16)
GP 27 (30min+) -> OTT vs NYI (2013-03-19)
GP 28 (30min+) -> OTT vs NJD (2013-03-25)

There's 28gp right there, ufa group 6 status averted.

If I'm wrong, I'd genuinely like to know. Capgeek and credible bloggers like the6thsens have also taken contrarian positions to this claim.

Edit* The official NHL transaction link also refers to Bishop as a RFA during the OTT-TB trade: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=663788

I think the confusion comes because he was going to be a group 6 UFA had StL not traded him (and the acquiring team not re-signed him).

I don't see how he could have gone to Group 6 UFA status as he had played 23 games when he re-signed with us for 1 year (and played 5 or more games on that extension).

 

[BigBush*]

Elliott has been able to put some elite numbers up on the Blues because how good they are defensively. Bishop has been able to put up better numbers playing on Tampa because they are good defensively.

Thats where the comparison ends.

Ya, and then after that, there are only arguments as to why Bishop is way better.

Goalies are a really tough position to judge. Probably why they have such low trade value.

There's no telling how Bishop would of done in St Louis, or Elliot in Tampa.

What if Crawford played in Buffalo instead of Chicago? Would he still have a contract worth over $20 million? Or would he be passed around the league as a back up like some other Buffalo goalies have.

 

[h2]

I think the confusion comes because he was going to be a group 6 UFA had StL not traded him (and the acquiring team not re-signed him).

I don't see how he could have gone to Group 6 UFA status as he had played 23 games when he re-signed with us for 1 year (and played 5 or more games on that extension).

I agree with you on the likely cause of confusion in this situation. There's no possible way Bishop qualified for any type of unrestricted free agency, as other Sens fans have falsely claimed above. I hope they take this as an example of doing research before posting total absolute statements in a debate (apparently this wasn't even debatable), happens way too often on the internet.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

To me it doesn't matter how good Bishop is because imo we still have a better goalie. They can't all play at the same time. Goalies come and go and I think there'll be plenty of either internal or external options to fill in for him when he's done being elite.

 

[Xamar*]

Release the Lehner