Legends Tournament: Level A, round 3: Ovechkin Versus Crosby
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GlitchMarner
Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
Interesting fact: Last summer Jagr beat Crosby in a run-off poll to earn fifth spot on a greatest players in NHL history list:
Sidney Crosby Versus Jaromir Jagr
Will we have a rock/paper/scissors situation here?
Sidney Crosby Versus Jaromir Jagr
Will we have a rock/paper/scissors situation here?
TheGuiminator
I’ll be damned King, I’ll be damned
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Crosby : better player and career.
If he had played during his peak years, there would be no debate.
If he had played during his peak years, there would be no debate.
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GlitchMarner
Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
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Ovechkin is the better player all-time.
More MVPs, way more hardware, superior peak seasons, physical dominator, elite playmaker, higher career value to date, greatest goal scorer of all time.
More MVPs, way more hardware, superior peak seasons, physical dominator, elite playmaker, higher career value to date, greatest goal scorer of all time.
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- Feb 10, 2010
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Just out of curiosity, how is it Crosby and Ovechkin are paired up, and Kuri and Fedorov are meeting in round 3?
Seems to me Hull or Crosby or Ovechkin would handily beat both those guys.
Somebody else said Bobby Hull lost to Crosby in an earlier round?
Seems to me Hull or Crosby or Ovechkin would handily beat both those guys.
Somebody else said Bobby Hull lost to Crosby in an earlier round?
GlitchMarner
Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
Steven Toast
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Crosby 6th all-time in PPG playing all his career in a low scoring era
Ovie 21st all-time.... thats a big gap
depends how much you value hardware, cus you can bet Crosby wouldve had more Harts and scoring titles... and I love Ovie btw
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Ovie is 5th all time in GPG - also playing his entire career in a low scoring era.
Crosby is 37th...an even bigger gap.
Ovie would have had more Harts and scoring titles too.
Im saying Crosby wouldve had more Harts and scoring titles if not for his injuries during his peak. Ovie wouldnt have more, hes never been injured.
Ovie is the greatest goal scorer ever in my book, no doubt, but points > goals whether you think so or not. Crosby is still a pretty damn good goal scorer too.
TheGoldenJet
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If it’s different tiers of players how is Malkin in a tier below Sakic/Yzerman? He is better than both players ever were, and has achieved more already career-wise. At the very least should be in the same “tier” in my opinion.
JackSlater
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KoozNetsOff 92
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No doubt who has been on the better teams, while obviously being a big part of that.
No doubt who has had the better individual career.
Not true at all. If Ovechkin doesn't miss ten games in 2010, he wins another Hart and another Rocket.
And, not for nothing, he takes a piece of hardware from Crosby.
No doubt who has had the better individual career.
Not true at all. If Ovechkin doesn't miss ten games in 2010, he wins another Hart and another Rocket.
And, not for nothing, he takes a piece of hardware from Crosby.
Ace of Hades
#Demko4Vezina
Ovechkin, extremely close tho.
Take into fact Crosby had a similar player behind him in Malkin to take pressure off of him.
Take into fact Crosby had a similar player behind him in Malkin to take pressure off of him.
KoozNetsOff 92
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In 09/10 if OV even played 1-2 more games he would have won the Hart, Rocket and Ross. Also in 08/09 he would have won the ross but for a couple of missed games. Isn't it weird how these are never brought up for OV (even though he led in PPG for 70+ games) but people love to give Crosby fantasy awards for 30 game "seasons"?
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He certainly has, it's just that he plays through it. In 2010 it was the knee, in other seasons it's been the wrist. Pretty much any time he didn't hit 50 ish goals it was due to injury.
we can pick and choose how many Harts and Art Rosses each MAY have gotten, and in the end theyd both be fairly close.
Bottom line is their career PPG (both in low scoring eras) is quite heavily in Crosby's favour, as he would surely be 5th all-time as of now which includes Bossy ahead of him with only 752 GP. Thats one HELL of a statistic, being realistically only behind the likes of Wayne, Mario, and Orr.... And its not as if OV played A TON more than Sid (141 GP, less than 2 full seasons).
OV may have had more "hardware seasons" but we're talking about careers here, let alone Crosby's better playoff PPG and success. THat all said OV is still top 10 all-time in my book, just not ahead of Crosby.
And I have no bias here. Not a Pens nor Caps fan whatsoever.
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Except Crosby played his best when Malkin was injured or under performed. No reason whatsoever to think Crosby isn;t the same player if Malkin isn't there.
Aside from being the better player offensively and overall, Crosby is much more proven in his ability to carry a line of any caliber linemates than OV is which has been a huge benefit for the Pens.
I wonder if Crosby's superior playoff performances helped give the appearance of the "better" team.
OV has been on three President's trophy teams, Crosby - zero.
I think OV and Jagr are closer than Crosby vs. either of them. Crosby's per game impact is up there with Howe's; he is the closest comparable offensively based on his career to date.
Voight
#winning
Its Ovechkin but the majority of HFB has a love affair with 87.
2008-2009 - also wins the Art Ross if he plays 2 or 3 more games.
2008-2009 - also wins the Art Ross if he plays 2 or 3 more games.
Looking at 2010 or 2009 from Ovechkin is not the same thing as looking at seasons where Crosby missed a lot of time.
Ovechkin already gets full credit for 2010 and 2009 because he played a full (relatively speaking) season.
It's like 2015 for Crosby. He had higher ppg than Benn but didn't win the Ross. No one calls that (or should at least) a supposed Ross win for Crosby. He already gets credit for that full (relatively speaking) season.
2008. Crosby missed 30 games. This is a year after he scored 120 points. His ppg is very close to Ovechkin. If he plays full season - maybe he wins the Ross. Let's say 30% chance.
2011. Crosby missed half the year. Clearly he was at his best here - and no one else really had a great season. This seems obvious that if he plays to end, he wins the ross, hart, lindsay. Maybe even Rocket.
2012. Only 22 games. Not going to pace it out to 82 games and make conclusions - but, this was right in the window of years when he was playing his best hockey. So there's a good chance that if he plays the full year, he could have done better than Malkin (for whom it was probably a career year). Let's not be stupid and say it happens at 90% certainty, but since Crosby was simply better at this point in-time, let's conservatively say there's a 50% chance he beats out Malkin for some awards (Ross, Lindsay, Hart....take your pick).
2013. He had this season in the bag, would have swept all the awards but bad luck that caused him to miss out the last 25% of season (or 12 games). This is closer to 2011 imo - seems almost obvious he would have swept the ross/hart/lindsay if he didnt get that injury.
Those are 4 seasons where injuries significantly impacted Crosby. This isn't fantasy land - this is just looking at the qualify of play/player he was, and what he realistically might have won without those big injuries.
To be clear - none of the above "hypothetical wins" are counted when comparing their careers to date. Crosby is still ahead by virtue of his more consistent prime (prime isn't award counting, as much as it is looking at overall games played in prime and consistency throughout, where Crosby easily beats Ovi) and of his superior playoff resume.
If Crosby hadn't suffered major injuries in the 4 seasons mentioned above - his resume would likely be even more impressive, ridiculously so.
Crosby > Ov all-time is a very clear, if not a huge gap.
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