Lecavalier Division Semifinals: Dukla Jihlava vs Toledo Goal Diggers

Theokritos

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HC_Dukla_Jihlava_logo.png


Coach: Anatoliy Tarasov
Assistant Coach: Billy Reay

George Hay - Newsy Lalonde (A) - Bill Cook (A)
Vladimir Krutov - Ted Kennedy (C) - Aleksandr Maltsev
Rick Nash - Neil Colville - Harry Oliver
Tony Leswick - Steve Kasper - Frank Finnigan
Dave Trottier, Claude Giroux

Hod Stuart - Tim Horton
Jim Neilson - Red Horner
Rod Seiling - Pat Egan
Gennadiy Tsygankov

Charlie Gardiner
Dave Kerr

PP1
Newsy Lalonde - Aleksandr Maltsev - Bill Cook
Pat Egan - Hod Stuart

PP2
Vladimir Krutov - Ted Kennedy - Harry Oliver
Tim Horton - Red Horner

PK1: Steve Kasper - Frank Finnigan - Jim Neilson - Tim Horton
PK2: Neil Colville - Tony Leswick - Hod Stuart - Rod Seiling

Forward Minutes
Player | ES | PP | PK | Total
Lalonde |14| 5 | 0 | 19
Cook| 14 | 5 | 0 | 19
Hay | 14 | 0 | 0 |14
Krutov| 14 | 2 | 0 |16
Kennedy| 14 | 2 | 0 | 16
Maltsev | 14 | 5 | 0 | 19
Nash| 12 | 0 | 0 | 12
Colville| 12 | 0 | 3 | 15
Oliver| 12 | 2 | 0 | 14
Leswick| 6 | 0 | 3 | 9
Kasper| 6 | 0 | 4 | 10
Finnigan | 6 | 0 | 4 | 10
TOTAL | 138 | 21 | 14 | 173

Defensemen Minutes
Player | ES | PP | PK | Total
Horton | 19 | 2 | 5 | 26
Stuart| 19 | 5 | 2 | 26
Neilson| 15 | 0 | 5 | 20
Horner| 14 | 2 | 0 | 16
Egan| 12 | 5 | 0 | 17
Seiling | 13 | 0 | 2 | 15
TOTAL | 92 | 14 | 14 | 120

 

Theokritos

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Toledo Goal Diggers

Coach: Glen Sather

Captain: Lidstrom
Alternates: Coulter, Sutter

Valeri Kharlamov-Frank Boucher-Cam Neely
Brian Propp-Mickey mackay-marian Hossa
Nick Metz-Walt Tkazuk-Claude Lemieux
Brian Sutter-Derek Sanderson-John Mckenzie

Nicklas Lidstrom-Larry Murphy
Mike Grant-Art Coulter
Jim Schoenfeld-Kimmo Timonen

Vladislav Tretiak
Alec Connell

Extras: PK Subban (Defenseman), Konstantin Loktev (Right Wing), Jamie Macoun (Defenseman)

PP 1: Valeri Kharlamov, Frank Boucher, Cam Neely, Nicklas Lidstrom, Larry Murphy
PP 2: Brian Propp, Mickey Mackay, Marian Hossa, Mike Grant, Kimmo Timonen
PK 1: nick Metz, Walt tkazuk, Nicklas Lidstrom, Art Coulter,
PK 2: Derek Sanderson, Marian Hossa, Jim Schoenfeld, Kimmo Timonen
 

BenchBrawl

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Jul 26, 2010
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Congrats to the GMs.This is the best team tony ever build.Sprague's top 6 is very sexy, I really like the Lalonde-Kennedy combo for some reasons.Toledo has an edge on the defense and in goal, HC Dukla has an edge in the top 6.
 

Sprague Cleghorn

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Good luck to you too tony. Im a little busy today, so you can go ahead and start it off. Im pretty sure ill have time tomorrow to send my own thoughts in.
 

tony d

New poll series coming from me on June 3
Jun 23, 2007
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Some initial comments:

- If we match line for line. I wonder how Nash would do vs. Claude Lemieux or if we match 3rd line vs. 1st line, how would Nash do vs. Cam Neely. Nash is a good 2 way player now but is he much of a physical guy? If he's not. I expect Lemieux and Neely to have a field day with him.

- Lalonde and Cook are a definite advantage for your team especially with the lack of toughness in my top 6. How will they fare though vs. the toughness in my bottom 6 if that's the matchup?

-Goaltending was mentioned as an advantage for my team, I agree. Tretiak is top 10 all time, Gardiner is no slouch either but Tretiak is in the conversation for top goalies after the big 7.

Anyways those are some opening arguments, looking forward to a rebuttal from sprague.
 

Sprague Cleghorn

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Some initial comments:

- If we match line for line. I wonder how Nash would do vs. Claude Lemieux or if we match 3rd line vs. 1st line, how would Nash do vs. Cam Neely. Nash is a good 2 way player now but is he much of a physical guy? If he's not. I expect Lemieux and Neely to have a field day with him.

Since when was Nash soft? He has definitely mellowed out in the later part of his career, but early on in his career, he racked the PIMs quite a bit. He's not going to be actively looking to stir things up, but that doesn't mean that he's going to get intimidated. Also, he's a power forward, and I don't think there's a single power forward who can be classified as soft. If they were, then they wouldn't be a power forward.

On the topic of softness/physicality, your 1st D pairing is a bit soft, and they'll be matched up a lot against my very physical 1st line. Cook and Lalonde will be looking to assert themselves in front of the net, and I don't believe Lidstrom or Murphy are noted crease clearers.

In addition, your top-6 is more conducive to playing a finesse game. My entire top-4 D is composed of big, physical guys that can skate. If things get bogged down, how will your top-6 cope? There's only one physical guy on each of your top-6 lines, and it takes more than one guy to play a successful grinding game.

- Lalonde and Cook are a definite advantage for your team especially with the lack of toughness in my top 6. How will they fare though vs. the toughness in my bottom 6 if that's the matchup?

Your 4th line is very tough, but on your third line, the only guy that I would classify as a plus in that department is Lemieux. When my 1st line goes up against your 4th line, things could get really nasty physically, but Sanderson is the only guy that I would classify as good enough defensively to check my 1st line. You run the risk of being scored against at the cost of agitating my 1st line, and I don't know if that's a good trade off.

About your 3rd line, I made a comment asking what purpose did Lemieux serve on your third line in the assassination thread. Metz and Tkaczuk are an elite shut down pair, but Lemieux isn't anything special defensively. If you're putting Lemieux on this line, you're going to have to reduce the tough defensive matchups for this line, and that wouldn't be the best way to maximize Metz's and Tkaczuk's value's.

-Goaltending was mentioned as an advantage for my team, I agree. Tretiak is top 10 all time, Gardiner is no slouch either but Tretiak is in the conversation for top goalies after the big 7.

Clear distinct advantage for you here. The only rebuttal that I can offer is how big is the difference between Tretiak and Gardiner?
 

Sprague Cleghorn

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Coaching: On paper, Tarasov is a borderline top-5 coach of all time while Sather is a borderline top-10 coach of all-time. Clear advantage for me here. I'd also like to add that Sather was known for his offensive brand of hockey, but the team you've assembled resembles more like a defensive oriented one. Apart from your 1st line, there's a lack of offensive pop. On paper, Sather is a borderline top-10 coach of all-time, but with the personnel you've assembled, I don't know if you're maximizing his value as one.

First line:

Kharlamov is significantly better than Hay, Lalonde is slightly better than Boucher, and Cook is significantly better than Neely. Is the gap between Kharlamov and Hay enough to bridge the gap between Cook and Neely, and in addition, the gap between Lalonde and Boucher?

I'd also like to add that while Neely and Hay could be considered equal in terms of overall value, Hay is the significantly better offensive producer, while most of Neely's value is derived from his intangibles. Still, both are going to be in over their heads offensively speaking and the play is going to die on their sticks a bit, but I believe it's going to die much more often while on Neely's stick. The only thing Neely should be doing on that line is to crack some heads, play bodyguard, and get into the dirty areas. Anything more, and it could get ugly.

Second line:

I believe that I have the clear advantage here, since I'm almost sure this is the best 2nd line in the draft. I've got Krutov who could be a weak 1st line LW, Kennedy who could be a weak 1st line C, and Maltsev who could be a below average 1st line RW. Basically I have three guys who wouldn't look too out of place on a 1st line taking second line duties. In comparison, I think your 2nd line is the weak point of your team. You've got Propp who is a weak 2nd line LW, MacKay who is ideally a 3rd line C. Hossa is the only bright spot on this line as he's at minimum elite in his current role.

Third line:

We've got two different purposes for our 3rd lines. Mine is to score while yours is to defend. In terms of offense, Colville is 163rd in VsX, making him elite offensively for a 3rd liner. Nash was in the upper half of seventies' EVS VsX chart, so he should be at least average, while Oliver is as good as many 2nd liners offensively. However, my 3rd line is also capable of playing defense, as each one of them is at least responsible defensively, with Colville being a significant plus in that department.

You've got an elite shutdown pair in Metz and Tkaczuk, but with Lemieux on their line, their effectiveness could be reduced. Also, even with Lemieux, they're not going to be doing much scoring at all, putting a lot more strain of the 1st line to produce.

Fourth line:

I think we've got two different purposes for our 4th lines here too. Mine is the designated shutdown unit, while yours is to be used as an "energy" line.
 

ResilientBeast

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Sprague I have to say I envy your first line the Cook - Lalonde combo is one my favorite someone has had in my 4 years doing this
 

Sprague Cleghorn

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1st pairing:

You've definitely got the better pairing on paper than I do, no question about it. However, is your 1st pairing suited for a physical brand of hockey, as that is what my 1st line will be bringing. None of Murphy or Lidstrom are noted crease clearers, or players that will impose their physical will along the boards. This could be problematic in dealing with Cook and Lalonde.

In comparison, I've got Horton and Stuart, both big, physical guys who could skate. Both can deal with Neely in the corners, and both should be able to defend on the rush against Kharlamov and Boucher due to their skating ability.

2nd pairing:

Again, you've got the better pairing on paper. Coulter is a legit #3 while Grant is a legit #4, but, is that talent enough to deal with my 2nd line composed of 1st liners? A combo consisting of an elite #3 and elite #4 is supposed to deal with 2nd lines composed of actual 2nd liners. If I was facing my 2nd line, I'd like to at least have a legit #2 to play against them to feel comfortable.

3rd pairing:

I think we drew here, or maybe you've got the slightly better one.

Goal:

Clear advantage to you.
 

tony d

New poll series coming from me on June 3
Jun 23, 2007
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Behind A Tree
My rebuttals are in bold:

Coaching: On paper, Tarasov is a borderline top-5 coach of all time while Sather is a borderline top-10 coach of all-time. Clear advantage for me here. I'd also like to add that Sather was known for his offensive brand of hockey, but the team you've assembled resembles more like a defensive oriented one. Apart from your 1st line, there's a lack of offensive pop. On paper, Sather is a borderline top-10 coach of all-time, but with the personnel you've assembled, I don't know if you're maximizing his value as one.

Yeah I think Sather was more of a panic pick for me at the end of a coaching run.
He was a good coach though and with the talent on the team things will be fine. Tarasov is a better coach and the familiarity is there on my team with Kharlamov and Tretiak, want to trade coaches? :sarcasm:


First line:

Kharlamov is significantly better than Hay, Lalonde is slightly better than Boucher, and Cook is significantly better than Neely. Is the gap between Kharlamov and Hay enough to bridge the gap between Cook and Neely, and in addition, the gap between Lalonde and Boucher?

I'd also like to add that while Neely and Hay could be considered equal in terms of overall value, Hay is the significantly better offensive producer, while most of Neely's value is derived from his intangibles. Still, both are going to be in over their heads offensively speaking and the play is going to die on their sticks a bit, but I believe it's going to die much more often while on Neely's stick. The only thing Neely should be doing on that line is to crack some heads, play bodyguard, and get into the dirty areas. Anything more, and it could get ugly.

As I said before Lalonde and Cook are a great combo, but seventies does raise a good point. Are these guys to similar to work? Could pose a problem. Hay also is the weakest player on our 1st lines so could be a problem there for you as well. Neely is not the best player in the world either but he has a role here to play policeman for Kharlamov and Boucher and that's what he'll do and do it well.

Second line:

I believe that I have the clear advantage here, since I'm almost sure this is the best 2nd line in the draft. I've got Krutov who could be a weak 1st line LW, Kennedy who could be a weak 1st line C, and Maltsev who could be a below average 1st line RW. Basically I have three guys who wouldn't look too out of place on a 1st line taking second line duties. In comparison, I think your 2nd line is the weak point of your team. You've got Propp who is a weak 2nd line LW, MacKay who is ideally a 3rd line C. Hossa is the only bright spot on this line as he's at minimum elite in his current role.

No arguments from me on your 2nd line. Ted Kennedy could be a 1st line centre here and gives your team a great advantage over mine. Krutov and Maltsev are both good as well. Yeah my 2nd line is "weak" but guys like Propp and Hossa are good players who should be adequate in their roles. Mickey Mackay is no Ted Kennedy but he should do good as well.

Third line:

We've got two different purposes for our 3rd lines. Mine is to score while yours is to defend. In terms of offense, Colville is 163rd in VsX, making him elite offensively for a 3rd liner. Nash was in the upper half of seventies' EVS VsX chart, so he should be at least average, while Oliver is as good as many 2nd liners offensively. However, my 3rd line is also capable of playing defense, as each one of them is at least responsible defensively, with Colville being a significant plus in that department.

You've got an elite shutdown pair in Metz and Tkaczuk, but with Lemieux on their line, their effectiveness could be reduced. Also, even with Lemieux, they're not going to be doing much scoring at all, putting a lot more strain of the 1st line to produce.

Yeah our 3rd lines are completely different. Metz and Tkazuk give my team 2 of the better defensive players ever and could give Nash, Colville and Oliver fits. Claude Lemieux is there to be a pest and I look forward to the matchuo with Nash.
I do like Colville though, will be interesting to see him and Nash together.


Fourth line:

I think we've got two different purposes for our 4th lines here too. Mine is the designated shutdown unit, while yours is to be used as an "energy" line.

Yeah my 4th line will be the energy line. Derek Sanderson vs. Steve Kasper should be a good battle of defensive minded centres. Brian Sutter vs. Tony Leswick should be a fun matchup of tough guys. Frank Finnigan is a guy I've looked at in the past. Could be a chance I match my 3rd line vs. your 4th line to get the checking lines out there vs. 1 another.

Thanks sprague for the rebuttal and the discussion, I'll be back tomorrow to respond to the defenseman and goalie thoughts, looking forward to any discussion you may wish to add.
 

ResilientBeast

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why is a goal-heavy center and a goal-heavy winger with the same strengths and question marks such a great combination?

I just like the WCHL combo, I didn't mean stylistically though I think they'd have no problem playing together especially with a more pass happy guy in Hay on the left.

They are going to be an absolute nightmare in the offensive zone
 

Sprague Cleghorn

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why is a goal-heavy center and a goal-heavy winger with the same strengths and question marks such a great combination?

As I said before Lalonde and Cook are a great combo, but seventies does raise a good point. Are these guys to similar to work? Could pose a problem. Hay also is the weakest player on our 1st lines so could be a problem there for you as well. Neely is not the best player in the world either but he has a role here to play policeman for Kharlamov and Boucher and that's what he'll do and do it well.

Lalonde and Cook played together for two years in Saskatoon, and they did pretty well. In their first year together, Cook was a rookie and he was 8th in scoring, while Lalonde as an old man finished 4th in scoring. The next season, Cook won the scoring title in the WCHL, and was most likely the best FW in the world that year. Lalonde, who was now 39 years old, finished 10th in scoring, but was 5th in PPG. Although both Cook and Lalonde are more known for their goal scoring, both can also pass. In case you were wondering who the LW was on that line, it was Laurie Scott, who also looks like to be primarily a goal scorer, so the playmaking certainly wasn't coming from him on that line. I do not see any reason to worry about the fit between these two since it actually worked in real life. And I've also got Hay on the line to beef up the playmaking.

Also, I'll have to disagree with Hay being the worst player on our first lines. Hay is very likely around a top-150 offensive player, while Neely is not even top-250. I understand that Neely's value is derived from his intangibles, but is it enough to make up such a massive difference in offense? And it isn't as if Hay's value is based solely on his offense either. His bio mentions his defensive play prominently, and Jack Adams, one of the hardest guy to get along with, called him one of the easiest players to coach, which speaks highly to his versatility.


No arguments from me on your 2nd line. Ted Kennedy could be a 1st line centre here and gives your team a great advantage over mine. Krutov and Maltsev are both good as well. Yeah my 2nd line is "weak" but guys like Propp and Hossa are good players who should be adequate in their roles. Mickey Mackay is no Ted Kennedy but he should do good as well.

I'm not sure if "adequate" is enough to cut it against my second line. As I said previously, Hossa is elite in his role, but Propp is a below average 2nd line LW, and going by the HOH Top C list, Mackay was ranked 52nd, which would make him a 3rd line C, and a weak 2nd line C as a best case scenario. Although this line looks strong defensively, the offense is sorely lacking as only Hossa is a dangerous offensive threat, Propp is 215th in 7 year VsX, and I'd guess MacKay is around 150th (I'll check this later). Your 2nd line is not going to outscore my 2nd line, so they'll have to focus a lot more on the defensive side of things, and if they do, that puts significant strain on your 1st line to produce, as your 3rd line and 4th lines also do not look like they will be contributing much offensively.

In addition, I'm not overly confident in Hossa covering Krutov. One of Hossa's weakness is physicality, which is conversely one of Krutov's strengths (or maybe even his biggest strength).

Yeah our 3rd lines are completely different. Metz and Tkazuk give my team 2 of the better defensive players ever and could give Nash, Colville and Oliver fits. Claude Lemieux is there to be a pest and I look forward to the matchuo with Nash.
I do like Colville though, will be interesting to see him and Nash together.

I understand that Lemieux is there to be a pest, but is putting a pest with Selke finishes of 6th, 21st and 24th on a line that looks to be designated to shut down primary offensive threats a wise move? Lemieux would be a good compliment to your agitating 4th line, but that would brink McKenzie up and he wasn't anything special defensively either.

One concern that I have if both our third lines meet is the lack of foot speed from your third line. All the players on my 3rd line have various quotes about their excellent skating ability. This could be greatly exploited while the players are in transition.


Thanks sprague for the rebuttal and the discussion, I'll be back tomorrow to respond to the defenseman and goalie thoughts, looking forward to any discussion you may wish to add.

Alright, looking forward to what you have to say.
 

tony d

New poll series coming from me on June 3
Jun 23, 2007
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I'll be back tomorrow to discuss the defensemen and goalies plus discuss anything further sprague wishes to add.
 

tony d

New poll series coming from me on June 3
Jun 23, 2007
76,596
4,556
Behind A Tree
Thanks sprague for the fair arguments, my thoughts are in bold:

1st pairing:

You've definitely got the better pairing on paper than I do, no question about it. However, is your 1st pairing suited for a physical brand of hockey, as that is what my 1st line will be bringing. None of Murphy or Lidstrom are noted crease clearers, or players that will impose their physical will along the boards. This could be problematic in dealing with Cook and Lalonde.

In comparison, I've got Horton and Stuart, both big, physical guys who could skate. Both can deal with Neely in the corners, and both should be able to defend on the rush against Kharlamov and Boucher due to their skating ability.

That is why Coulter may see some time on my 1st pairing to cover up Lidstrom's only weakness which is being physical. We'll see what happens throughout the series but given Lalonde and Cook it's possible we see Coulter on the 1st pairing at even strength to help with the physical play. Horton's a good one and the man knows how to make a good cup of coffee. :sarcasm: Not overly with Stuart but I got to think he's the #4 defenseman here.

2nd pairing:

Again, you've got the better pairing on paper. Coulter is a legit #3 while Grant is a legit #4, but, is that talent enough to deal with my 2nd line composed of 1st liners? A combo consisting of an elite #3 and elite #4 is supposed to deal with 2nd lines composed of actual 2nd liners. If I was facing my 2nd line, I'd like to at least have a legit #2 to play against them to feel comfortable.

Would Murphy qualify there? Perhaps for his offense but no sure about his defense. I think Coulter and Grant should hold their own no matter the matchup. As to Horner on your team. He's good, I had him a few drafts back but he was prone to taking penalties so that could be a disadvantage for you.

3rd pairing:

I think we drew here, or maybe you've got the slightly better one.

Thanks I do like the Schoenfeld Timmonen pairing. Schoenfeld is someone I've always wanted while Timmonen gives me a good 2 way defenseman. Seiling and egan will hold their own for your team as well.

Goal:

Clear advantage to you.

Thanks, yeah Tretiak is one of the top 10 goalies of all time. Gardiners in the 11-20 range all time with a lot of others. Tretiak has the ablity to steal a game or 2 this series for me. Alec Connell gives me a very good backup. I had Kerr last year to backup Roy. He won't hurt you either.

Anyway those are my arguments for this series, I wish to thank sprague for a well argued series and wish him good luck in this.
 

Sprague Cleghorn

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Edmonton, KY
Thanks sprague for the fair arguments, my thoughts are in bold:

That is why Coulter may see some time on my 1st pairing to cover up Lidstrom's only weakness which is being physical. We'll see what happens throughout the series but given Lalonde and Cook it's possible we see Coulter on the 1st pairing at even strength to help with the physical play.

Coulter will certainly help with the physical aspects against my first line, but that would come at the cost of your 2nd pairing's defensive ability, as you will have two offense first guys on it.

Horton's a good one and the man knows how to make a good cup of coffee. :sarcasm: Not overly with Stuart but I got to think he's the #4 defenseman here.

Stuart as a #4 D seems a bit a harsh, no? The HOH list ranked him 36th, which would make him an average #2 D. Stuart being a #4 would entail that he should be ranked 75th to 100th on a Top-D list. Even if you don't agree with the HOH list, a 39 spot drop for Stuart doesn't seem very reasonable to me. What is the reason for your low opinion of Stuart?


Would Murphy qualify there? Perhaps for his offense but no sure about his defense.


As I wrote above, I don't think Murphy would make a positive difference on your 2nd pairing. Value wise, he's still about the same as Coulter, an elite #3, however, that would put two offense first D on your 2nd pairing. Grant was known for his rushing ability, and Murphy isn't exactly the guy I want as the last line of defense. Grant's rushing ability combined with Murphy's great breakout pass will certainly aid their forwards in transition, but this will come at the cost of defensive play for your 2nd pairing.

I think Coulter and Grant should hold their own no matter the matchup.

An elite #3 and an elite #4 would be considered excellent to combat a line composed of the best 2nd line talents, just as an elite #1 and elite #2 pairing would be against elite 1st liners. However, my 2nd line could be considered equivalent to a weak 1st line. Coulter and Grant could do fine, but they'll have to play a lot harder than they're usually used to as the talent level of my 2nd line is not the same as they'll be used to.

As to Horner on your team. He's good, I had him a few drafts back but he was prone to taking penalties so that could be a disadvantage for you.

True, Horner will be taking penalties. I have anticipated this as Horner has the 2nd least minutes among my D on my depth chart. But, I believe I have one of the top-5 PK units in the league (Kennedy isn't even on my PK!), so they should minimize the effects of Horner's undiscipline.

On the topic of penalties, I could say the same about Neely and Coulter.

Thanks for the replies. I'll be back with some more matchups related stuff. ;)
 

tony d

New poll series coming from me on June 3
Jun 23, 2007
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For tony's point wasn't Murphy - Lidstrom the pairing that shut down the Legion of Doom?

No, it was Lidstrom and Konstantinov as sprague said. I do know Lidstrom and Murphy did some good work together hence why I'm hesitant to break them up.
 

jarek

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Aug 15, 2009
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I'm not sure you can take what Lalonde did with Cook as an old man and say there's good chemistry there based on that. With that being said, while Cook is first and foremost a goal scorer, he does have a respectable playmaking record. Furthermore, Lalonde does have a history of working well with players who are otherwise considered goal scorers.

It's a little difficult to determine how the older players would work in a more modern context simply because the game was played differently back then. The role of the wingers was to feed the center, who would have been the team's primary goal scorer. There are some exceptions, like Nighbor for example.

As for Lalonde himself, there is one quote against him as a playmaker, from 1911:

Every time Lalonde grabbed the puck Pete Green would shout, "Get him Marty... get his body, he won't pass it" and Green's tip proved the correct one for Lalonde invariably retained the rubber until the Ottawa forward robbed him of it when Newsy would slap his stick on the ice in disgust.

However, this seemed to be the case with most players of that era. Pete Green's system worked under the assumption that 9 out of 10 times, the player with the puck wouldn't pass it.

So what does all this mean for a Lalonde-Cook line? I would say it's not necessarily a match made in heaven, but it should work alright.
 

Sprague Cleghorn

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I'm not sure you can take what Lalonde did with Cook as an old man and say there's good chemistry there based on that.

If they accomplished what they did when they weren't in their primes, then wouldn't it be obvious that they would have accomplished much more in their primes (and in the ATD we are assuming prime performance from all players)? Seems natural to me that the Cook and Lalonde pairing would improve rather than decline or remain stagnant if both were in their primes.

With that being said, while Cook is first and foremost a goal scorer, he does have a respectable playmaking record. Furthermore, Lalonde does have a history of working well with players who are otherwise considered goal scorers.

To highlight Cook's playmaking record:

Top-10 NHL assists: 3, 6, 8
Top-10 WCHL/WHL assists: 1*, 2*, 2, 7

*These came playing with Lalonde

As for Lalonde, he worked well with Malone, Pitre, and O. Cleghorn, all guys that could be considered goal dominant.


So what does all this mean for a Lalonde-Cook line? I would say it's not necessarily a match made in heaven, but it should work alright.

Seems like a fair assessment.
 

jarek

Registered User
Aug 15, 2009
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238
If they accomplished what they did when they weren't in their primes, then wouldn't it be obvious that they would have accomplished much more in their primes (and in the ATD we are assuming prime performance from all players)? Seems natural to me that the Cook and Lalonde pairing would improve rather than decline or remain stagnant if both were in their primes.

That's the odd thing. Maybe it doesn't work out so well earlier in Lalonde's career. Maybe Lalonde was a lot more selfish earlier in his career. Maybe as he aged and matured, he embraced playmaking more and more. Not saying that this is how it was, but I don't like these kind of assumptions being made because you don't know what would have happened.

That being said, I think Lalonde is a better playmaker than most give him credit for. Not as good as Esposito or Denneny, but still good. Cook is kind of in the same boat. With the playmaker Hay on the left, that's why I give this unit a pass. But just barely.
 

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