Lecavalier Division Finals: (1) Vancouver Millionaires vs (2) Stockholm Full Throttle

[Sturminator]

Vancouver Millionares

1915 Stanley Cup Champions
Home Rink: Denman Arena (1911)
Head Coach: Tommy Ivan

Anatoli Firsov - Alex Delvecchio (C) - Jaromir Jagr (A)
Cy Denneny - Frank Fredrickson - Theoren Fleury
Adam Graves - Walt Tkaczuk - Ed Westfall (A)
Simon Gagne - Bobby Holik - John Pie Mckenzie

King Clancy (A) - Tom Johnson
'Moose' Vasko - Bullet Joe Simpson
Bobby Rowe - Mathieu Schneider

Bill Durnan
George Hainsworth

Spares: Doug Weight C, Andrei Markov D, Jim Pappin RW, Mattias Ohlund D,

1st unit PP:

Denneny - Delvecchio - Jagr
Simpson - Clancy

2nd unit PP:

Firsov - Fredrickson - Fleury
T.Johnson - Schneider

Alternates: Tkaczuk

1st unit PK:

Tkaczuk - Westfall
T.Johnson - Vasko

2nd unit PK:

Delvecchio - Firsov
Clancy - Rowe

Alternates: Holik - Fleury

vs.

Coach: Hap Day
Assistant Coach: Billy Reay
Team Captain: Nicklas Lidström
Alternate Captains: Ted Lindsay, Ted Kennedy


Ted Lindsay (A) - Ted Kennedy (A) - Martin St. Louis
Lawrence "Baldy" Northcott - Dale Hawerchuk - Vaclav Nedomansky
Don McKenney - Bernie Federko - Ace Bailey
Ray Getliffe - Joel Otto - Jimmy Roberts


Nicklas Lidström (C) - Jack Crawford
Ernie "Moose" Johnson - Mike Grant
Sandis Ozolinsh - Eduard Ivanov

Vladislav Tretiak
Lorne Chabot

Spares: Dick Duff (LW) - Billy Boucher (RW) - Al Iafrate (D)


PP1: Ted Lindsay - Vaclav Nedomansky - Dale Hawerchuk - Sandis Ozolinsh - Nicklas Lidström
PP2: Lawrence "Baldy" Northcott - Ted Kennedy - Martin St. Louis - Mike Grant - Eduard Ivanov

PK1: Ted Kennedy - Jimmy Roberts - Nicklas Lidström - Ernie "Moose" Johnson
PK2: Joel Otto - Ray Getliffe - Mike Grant - Jack Crawford​

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[monster_bertuzzi]

Second line looks like the big win Van here. Actually whole top 6:

Jagr>Lindsay
Firsov>=St.Louis
Kennedy>Delvecchio
Denneny>>>Northcott
Hawerchuk>==Fredrickson
Fleury>Nedomansky

 

[Iceman]

I'll chip in a word or two when I get home from work tonight (on the bus TO work now hehe).

 

[Hobnobs]

Second line looks like the big win Van here. Actually whole top 6:

Jagr>Lindsay
Firsov>=St.Louis
Kennedy>Delvecchio
Denneny>>>Northcott
Hawerchuk>==Fredrickson
Fleury>Nedomansky

What makes Fleury better than Nedomansky?

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

What makes Fleury better than Nedomansky?

Depends how you view Big Ned's dominance in Czechoslovakia and at Amateur Tournaments in the 60's and 70's. It's kind of impossible for me to compare people like Fleury and Nedomansky, from two different continent and era's.

We know that Fleury was one of the great RW's of the 90's and twice was top 5 in Hart voting. Nedomansky also proved to be sort of a PP specialist only when he was in the WHA. FLeury was ranked 55 on the HOH list (making him an absolute elite 2nd liner) and Ned didn't rank.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Depends how you view Big Ned's dominance in Czechoslovakia and at Amateur Tournaments in the 60's and 70's. It's kind of impossible for me to compare people like Fleury and Nedomansky, from two different continent and era's.

We know that Fleury was one of the great RW's of the 90's and twice was top 5 in Hart voting. Nedomansky also proved to be sort of a PP specialist only when he was in the WHA. FLeury was ranked 55 on the HOH list (making him an absolute elite 2nd liner) and Ned didn't rank.

Nedomansky was not eligible for the wingers list - he was eligible for the centers list, where he finished 57th.

 

[DN28]

Depends how you view Big Ned's dominance in Czechoslovakia and at Amateur Tournaments in the 60's and 70's. It's kind of impossible for me to compare people like Fleury and Nedomansky, from two different continent and era's.

We know that Fleury was one of the great RW's of the 90's and twice was top 5 in Hart voting. Nedomansky also proved to be sort of a PP specialist only when he was in the WHA. FLeury was ranked 55 on the HOH list (making him an absolute elite 2nd liner) and Ned didn't rank.

Ned played in NHL too so it´s somehow comparable.

Fleury played his last NHL season in 2002-03 when he was 34 y/o and had 33 points (12+21) in 54 games.

Meanwhile 34 y/o Nedomansky led Detroit in scoring with 73 points (38+35) in 80 games and finished 9th in All-star voting for RW in 1978-79. (Edit: and had another 4 seasons in NHL left)

I don´t think Fleury is really close to Nedomansky even if you don´t think highly of 60s/70s European hockey.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Ned played in NHL too so it´s somehow comparable.

Fleury played his last NHL season in 2003-04 when he was 34 y/o and had 33 points (12+21) in 54 games.

Meanwhile 34 y/o Nedomansky led Detroit in scoring with 73 points (38+35) in 80 games and finished 9th in All-star voting for RW in 1978-79. (Edit: and had another 4 seasons in NHL left)

I don´t think Fleury is really close to Nedomansky even if you don´t think highly of 60s/70s European hockey.

Oh boy...

You do realize 1979 was absolute fire-wagon run and gun hockey, and 2003 was absolute Dead Puck hockey? Ridiculous to make that comparison.

 

[DN28]

Oh boy...

You do realize 1979 was absolute fire-wagon run and gun hockey, and 2003 was absolute Dead Puck hockey? Ridiculous to make that comparison.

Your argument can be twisted. 18 players over 34 and 17 teams in 1978-79 vs. 80 players over 34 and 30 teams in 2002-03... So Fleury played in environment that was more comfortable to older players in general, which makes Nedomansky look even better.

Maybe ridiculous comparison but interesting to me.

 

[Hobnobs]

Oh boy...

You do realize 1979 was absolute fire-wagon run and gun hockey, and 2003 was absolute Dead Puck hockey? Ridiculous to make that comparison.

Nedomansky still Was top-30 in points and his goals total was 12th. Fleury was 199th... Even if we take his last good season (02) he was only 42nd.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Nedomansky still Was top-30 in points and his goals total was 12th. Fleury was 199th... Even if we take his last good season (02) he was only 42nd.

Do we punish Roenick and Modano for looking like ECHL'ers in their final couple of seasons?

Obviously Fleury was going off the rails by 2002-2004, and had all kinds of personal demons and problems. Thats part of the reason I drafted a complete players coach in Ivan, some of our stud's up front have...issues...lets say.

 

[Hobnobs]

Do we punish Roenick and Modano for looking like ECHL'ers in their final couple of seasons?

Obviously Fleury was going off the rails by 2002-2004, and had all kinds of personal demons and problems. Thats part of the reason I drafted a complete players coach in Ivan, some of our stud's up front have...issues...lets say.

No, it wasn't my intention to say that Fleury is bad just that I dont think he is better than Nedomansky.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

No, it wasn't my intention to say that Fleury is bad just that I dont think he is better than Nedomansky.

Look at VSx like a playstation rating, do you think Ned would be higher than Fleury's 83.4? Fleury also takes Ned in intangibles probably.

Anyways, even if Nedomansky is a little better than Fleury afterall (I don't believe that but people will have their opinions), they aren't even the matchup. Cy Denneny is Nedomansky's matchup - and Fleury will tango with Baldy Northcott.

 

[Iceman]

Sorry for disappearing...

I am not going to beat a dead horse and continue down the Nedomansky route.

This certainly looks like an interesting matchup, if not for being the top seeds alone which obviously tend to happen by itself.

You beat me out in the first round last year and I'm hoping I can return the favour this year (a bit later of course) but it's gonna be a tough task for either team.

We both have great offensive depth through our lineups. You went more for the balanced top 6 while I tried to stack my 1st line a bit. My 2nd line has the offense but not the intangibles my 1st line has.

Neither of our forward groups are that physical. I arguably have the more physical players in the top 6 but I don't think any of our teams will win by a playing legion of doom style hockey anyway! I think would prefer to keep Lindsay away from Fleury because I can confidently say they will at some point go at it and with both in the penalty box, Stockholm loses it's best forward for a couple of minutes. Not that Lindsay would lose in a fight but I rather keep him outside of the box. Both will spend time there nonetheless!

Our forward core work a bit different I think. You have a more get the right guy the puck and let him do his magic, but of course you need good "complimentary" players that can work some chemistry out of that, which I think you have done well in with surrounding Jagr with the right guys. I have a more of a tactical counter-attack, make smart and quick passes in my first line and fly up the wing. Both have their perks and flaws I guess just like any other line and units I guess.

As far as defense goes, we both have pretty good and balanced two-way hockey in our #1s, good defensive dmen in our #2 and #3 and whatever else compliments them depth wise. You decided to pair your #1 with your #2, #3 with your #4 etc. down the lineup like normal. I paired my #1 with my #3 and let my #2 handle the load of the second pairing. Both ways works fine but I think I have it set up the right way against a team like yours with a strong balanced top 6 so I think the Hap Day run top 4 of mine can help mitigate a bunch of the damage your team would otherwise cause against a weaker defensive team. We all know throwing the body at Jagr won't help so I hope some of the positional play of my top 4 and smart stick could help some with that.

We both have good goaltending which should make this a hard fought series. None of the goaltenders will lose their team this series, actually, most likely they will extend it but could Tretiak come through in a 7th game?

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Sorry for disappearing...

I am not going to beat a dead horse and continue down the Nedomansky route.

This certainly looks like an interesting matchup, if not for being the top seeds alone which obviously tend to happen by itself.

You beat me out in the first round last year and I'm hoping I can return the favour this year (a bit later of course) but it's gonna be a tough task for either team.

We both have great offensive depth through our lineups. You went more for the balanced top 6 while I tried to stack my 1st line a bit. My 2nd line has the offense but not the intangibles my 1st line has.

Neither of our forward groups are that physical. I arguably have the more physical players in the top 6 but I don't think any of our teams will win by a playing legion of doom style hockey anyway! I think would prefer to keep Lindsay away from Fleury because I can confidently say they will at some point go at it and with both in the penalty box, Stockholm loses it's best forward for a couple of minutes. Not that Lindsay would lose in a fight but I rather keep him outside of the box. Both will spend time there nonetheless!

Our forward core work a bit different I think. You have a more get the right guy the puck and let him do his magic, but of course you need good "complimentary" players that can work some chemistry out of that, which I think you have done well in with surrounding Jagr with the right guys. I have a more of a tactical counter-attack, make smart and quick passes in my first line and fly up the wing. Both have their perks and flaws I guess just like any other line and units I guess.

As far as defense goes, we both have pretty good and balanced two-way hockey in our #1s, good defensive dmen in our #2 and #3 and whatever else compliments them depth wise. You decided to pair your #1 with your #2, #3 with your #4 etc. down the lineup like normal. I paired my #1 with my #3 and let my #2 handle the load of the second pairing. Both ways works fine but I think I have it set up the right way against a team like yours with a strong balanced top 6 so I think the Hap Day run top 4 of mine can help mitigate a bunch of the damage your team would otherwise cause against a weaker defensive team. We all know throwing the body at Jagr won't help so I hope some of the positional play of my top 4 and smart stick could help some with that.

We both have good goaltending which should make this a hard fought series. None of the goaltenders will lose their team this series, actually, most likely they will extend it but could Tretiak come through in a 7th game?

Good luck in the voting, Ice. I do think you have a really good team here.

I think you're not realizing the physicality my top 9 brings. Denneny obviously is a Sheriff on the ice. Jagr and Fred are huge guys, physical contests don't really phase them. Fleury and Westfall are pesky agitators. Graves and Tkaczuk are scrappers.

You're really not giving Firsov and Delveccho their due if they're just complimentary players. Delvecchio is better offensively than Kennedy dont forget, and Firsov, well. Even if Jag's is having an off night, Firsov-Delvecchio is still a duo you need to scheme around.

I agree about Lindsay and Fleury. I can picture them going at it a lot this series, thats a matchup we won't mind on home ice, either.

 

[seventieslord]

In another game 7 overtime, the Vancouver Millionaires prevail.

Congratulations to monster_bertuzzi!

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Wow

Great series Ice. Our teams were really close indeed.

 

[Iceman]

U2... go on and beat those other b*stards!