Lebrun: Canes Owner Willing To Sell Entire Team

[MNNumbers]

I keep saying this , and it surprises me that people don't really seem to agree.

The tickets, payrolls, revenues, etc. are not the investment or the high performance, the franchise itself is. Team values have quadrupled at least in the past few decades, if you think the trend will continue it's a great investment.

Purchase team for $500MM, lose $10MM/year for 10 years, sell team for $900MM. You're still up over 50% on your initial investment plus cash injections. Making a profit annually if you can is just for cash flow purposes.

True, but that creates a but of a bubble. At some point, there is no buyer available at the price you want to sell for. Then, you are losing.

 

[Mightygoose]

It sounds like the G&M mail is stating that if Chinese firms are wanting to own teams it would be one outside of the O6 and some of a highest values ones so other teams are just listed as examples.

I highly doubt any Chinese interests really exist for the Canes as we know the Sharks and Stars were lumped in too and not for sale.

Foreign buyers are more likely to align themselves and their investments with properties in major world markets (NY, LA, Toronto etc...) or in a place where they have local interests. Plattner in San Jose being one.

There are so many other sports teams out there in various leagues around the world for international firms to bother with lower profile markets like Raleigh, Arizona etc...I'll even extend that group to Winnipeg, Edmonton and Quebec City if it happens. Those are better served by local ownership with more roots.

 

[aqib]

Right now the Canes are 3 points out of a playoff spot (4 if the Leafs hang on to win tonight), so why hasn't attendance picked up?

 

[Oldracer]

Just got back from game, very good crowd with very high energy level.

 

[Jeffrey]

The key here is that not a lot of posters on HF Boards actually understand business, and that quite a lot of the subset of people who pay attention to the business side of the game only do so because they're rooting for teams to fail and relocate to Canada.

Who is dumb enough to buy a franchise with constant losses? Even billionaire that want their toy are not going to see this as a savvy investment.

 

[aqib]

Just got back from game, very good crowd with very high energy level.

ESPN reports 11,881. Does that seem right?

 

[Oldracer]

Numbers sound about right. Jackets not normally a big draw here. Canes are on the upswing. This was a decent Thur. night crowd good buzz in bldg.

 

[zetajerk]

Right now the Canes are 3 points out of a playoff spot (4 if the Leafs hang on to win tonight), so why hasn't attendance picked up?

Why don't we wait for a little sustained competence (notice I say competence and not success) and you know, not a down to the wire sprint for 8th place before we start with the demands?

 

[the halleJOKEL]

as always, context matters

 

[tarheelhockey]

I think his point is just that it was 12,000 actual people (not 12K distributed) and there's an actual sense of purpose in the cheers. Like people are cheering because it matters to them, and not just as a Pavlovian reflex to the "make some noise!" graphic. There's a difference in how it makes you feel when you're in the arena.

People were also celebrating on the concourse and in the parking lot after the game. It's been a LONG time since we've had that. And this is for a team that is still a fairly safe bet to miss, not make, the playoffs.

Let us have our baby steps, please. This fanbase has dealt with enough in recent years that even a small shift in the wind is something that actually means a lot to us at this point.

 

[syc]

The key here is that not a lot of posters on HF Boards actually understand business, and that quite a lot of the subset of people who pay attention to the business side of the game only do so because they're rooting for teams to fail and relocate to Canada.

Speaking as a mere mortal I know it's never good to buy high and Vegas just increased the sale values of every nhl franchise including the Hurricanes. Buying a franchise now would be foolish, wait it out and let these teams burn more cash. The market will correct itself in a few years.

Not every team in this league is a hobby team owned by a billionaire. Some teams are run for actual revenue based profits. Crazy concept in the nhl these days I know.

 

[King_Stannis]

as always, context matters

Here's the context I see as an outsider- A crucial home game with playoff implications against one of the best teams in the league only drew 12,000 fans.

I'm also sure most of those 12,000 fans is every bit as rabid and loyal and great as any other fans in the league. It just doesn't look like there's enough of them.

 

[tarheelhockey]

A crucial home game with playoff implications

Let's be real here, the Canes are still an extreme underdog to make the playoffs. We could go undefeated to the end of our schedule and still not make it.

Casual fans checked out a long time ago when we were sitting at the bottom of the conference. This recent run has been a lot of fun, but it's still very likely to end up in failure.

The point of the bump was simply that we're finally having semi-semi-semi relevant hockey after a long stretch of cellar dwelling, and the hard core of fans who have stuck with the team are getting a bit of energy from it. It's not supposed to mean anything more than that.

 

[aqib]

Let's be real here, the Canes are still an extreme underdog to make the playoffs. We could go undefeated to the end of our schedule and still not make it.

Casual fans checked out a long time ago when we were sitting at the bottom of the conference. This recent run has been a lot of fun, but it's still very likely to end up in failure.

The point of the bump was simply that we're finally having semi-semi-semi relevant hockey after a long stretch of cellar dwelling, and the hard core of fans who have stuck with the team are getting a bit of energy from it. It's not supposed to mean anything more than that.

They are 2 games out with 5 to play. Sure they don't control their own destiny but its close enough that you should be drawing better. I lived in Cleveland for many years which is a horrible baseball town and the fans have a visceral hatred for the owner. But if the team is in contention late in the year they pack the house. If you do make the playoffs and still draw poorly what will your excuse be then "well they are in the playoffs but they probably won't make it out of the first round and its hard to get fans excited over a one and done team"

 

[tarheelhockey]

They are 2 games out with 5 to play. Sure they don't control their own destiny but its close enough that you should be drawing better. I lived in Cleveland for many years which is a horrible baseball town and the fans have a visceral hatred for the owner. But if the team is in contention late in the year they pack the house. If you do make the playoffs and still draw poorly what will your excuse be then "well they are in the playoffs but they probably won't make it out of the first round and its hard to get fans excited over a one and done team"

How about we actually make the playoffs this decade before we start throwing the team under the bus for that too?

Like I've been saying for weeks, the season was effectively over for this team in January. The run they're on right now is crazy, and it's still almost certainly going to fall short of the goal line. Even the hardcore fans are not seriously expecting to make the playoffs, we're just enjoying the novelty of not being mathematically eliminated quite yet. That little change of tone actually IS forward progress, but it's not going to create a flippin' bandwagon effect or anything.

I mean look at the Islanders. They're 2 points behind us, meaning we'd be tied if not for a last-minute rally last night. There's an "Islanders are done" thread on the main board. They drew under 12K for their most recent home game. Does anyone seriously think they should be packing the house?

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Here's the context I see as an outsider- A crucial home game with playoff implications against one of the best teams in the league only drew 12,000 fans.

I'm also sure most of those 12,000 fans is every bit as rabid and loyal and great as any other fans in the league. It just doesn't look like there's enough of them.

To be fair, it's the Jackets. It would take a decade of success with a Cup or two before casual fans notice they're a good team. I bet in Carolina a significant % of sales tends to go to visiting teams' fans so they always had good crowds vs the big fanbase teams from the Northeast/Eastern Canada/Upper Midwest. Jackets' fanbase is still not even especially big in Ohio.

 

[tarheelhockey]

To be fair, it's the Jackets. It would take a decade of success with a Cup or two before casual fans notice they're a good team. I bet in Carolina a significant % of sales tends to go to visiting teams' fans so they always had good crowds vs the big fanbase teams from the Northeast/Eastern Canada/Upper Midwest. Jackets' fanbase is still not even especially big in Ohio.

A big factor is that when your STH base is depressed, it's very hard to just suddenly draw thousands of walk-up sales in response to a short-term development. We see this all the time where attendance stays relatively flat for teams that are on a hot streak.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

How about we actually make the playoffs this decade before we start throwing the team under the bus for that too?

Like I've been saying for weeks, the season was effectively over for this team in January. The run they're on right now is crazy, and it's still almost certainly going to fall short of the goal line. Even the hardcore fans are not seriously expecting to make the playoffs, we're just enjoying the novelty of not being mathematically eliminated quite yet. That little change of tone actually IS forward progress, but it's not going to create a flippin' bandwagon effect or anything.

I mean look at the Islanders. They're 2 points behind us, meaning we'd be tied if not for a last-minute rally last night. There's an "Islanders are done" thread on the main board. They drew under 12K for their most recent home game. Does anyone seriously think they should be packing the house?

As a hardcore fan, I know the team has absolutely no real chance of making the playoffs. The last numbers from sportclubstats, for instance, gives us a 7.8% shot of making the playoffs. It's nice to be playing without being mathematically eliminated yet and no, we're not in getting struck by lightning territory, but it's much more unlikely than likely.

What these types of wins will do is help recharge/reenergize the fanbase going into the offseason. Faulk's tying goal on Monday and Skinner's tying goal and Hanifin's game winner last night were some of the loudest I've heard PNC this season and the crowd left in a good mood. It's up to the front office to properly market that emotion and convert it into new season ticket sales and it's up to the hockey operations staff to build off of that so that we don't stumble out of the gates next season and actually have more than a marginal chance of making the playoffs.

 

[Elephant Igloo]

Not every team in this league is a hobby team owned by a billionaire.

This one is.

 

[Slashers98]

This one is.

Karmanos is not a billionaire...
His fortune was estimated at $700M in 2015 and his sons sued him for $100M last year.

 

[Elephant Igloo]

But his ownership has never been anything but an expensive way to snipe at Mike Ilitch. He's not like the old-line NFL owners that have primarily or even solely been in the football business for generations. It's his toy.

 

[Oldracer]

Does that explain his ownership of the Junior and ECHL teams too?

 

[Elephant Igloo]

His petty little rivalry with Ilitch goes back to their junior teams.

 

[aqib]

How about we actually make the playoffs this decade before we start throwing the team under the bus for that too?

Like I've been saying for weeks, the season was effectively over for this team in January. The run they're on right now is crazy, and it's still almost certainly going to fall short of the goal line. Even the hardcore fans are not seriously expecting to make the playoffs, we're just enjoying the novelty of not being mathematically eliminated quite yet. That little change of tone actually IS forward progress, but it's not going to create a flippin' bandwagon effect or anything.

I mean look at the Islanders. They're 2 points behind us, meaning we'd be tied if not for a last-minute rally last night. There's an "Islanders are done" thread on the main board. They drew under 12K for their most recent home game. Does anyone seriously think they should be packing the house?

The Islanders issues are well documented. I don't think anyone thinks they should stay in Brooklyn.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The Islanders issues are well documented. I don't think anyone thinks they should stay in Brooklyn.

My point, though, is that nobody should seriously expect this tier of teams to be packing people in for a playoff push. Anyone who understands the NHL standings understands that these teams are a miracle shot to make it in.