Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose

[Dekes For Days]

These numbers are very mediocre .
Thanks for sharing, good to know what you consider defensive excellence.

I said we were a strong defensive team. Top 7-9 is a strong defensive team, especially with the separation that existed between some of these rankings.
6th over the previous 3 years combined; an insignificant amount from 3rd. And other than the minor dip from losing Muzzin, we were improving every year.
You can dismiss it all you want, but it's a heck of a lot better than we've had throughout pretty much the entire cap era, and a heck of a lot better than 23rd.

 

[Arzak]

I said we were a strong defensive team. Top 7-9 is a strong defensive team, especially with the separation that existed between some of these rankings.
6th over the previous 3 years combined; an insignificant amount from 3rd. And other than the minor dip from losing Muzzin, we were improving every year.
You can dismiss it all you want, but it's a heck of a lot better than we've had throughout pretty much the entire cap era, and a heck of a lot better than 23rd.

You are cherry-picking again.

Dubas is the reason we are back to the bottom of the league. You can pretend he didn't sell our future to temporarily elevate us from the worst in the league to top 7-9 -still hardly elite as you like to pretend, but the price was the current state of Leafs.

Dubas owns the 23rd in the league stat .



2018-2019: 26th
2019-2020: 22nd
2020-2021: 14th
2021-2022: 7th
2022-2023: 9th
-------------------
2023-2024: 23rd

You don't even understand the topic of discussion. You are comparing state of Leafs with all the pick in the world Dubas wasted with current state .Why are you pretending we can sell another 8 1st rounders for rentals like Kyle did?

You give Dubas credit for what? He wasted our future and you're happy with 9th in the league in defense . I'd love to see that banner hanging. Ridiculus and now you want to judge current GM handcuffed with NMCs, no picks, no prospects, overpaid un-movable Marner,aging un-movable JT based on what move exactly?

It will take years for new GM to have any effect, would be different if Kyle bother with Leafs future, but he went full r*tard, win now or bust. Won nothing and left.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Dubas is the reason we are back to the bottom of the league.

Except he's not. Treliving was the one who decided to get a group of players that were among the worst in the league defensively.

You give Dubas credit for what?

For the things he deserves credit for, like fixing our defense, consistently finding good, efficient depth, making justified and logical decisions with a purpose, quickly and cheaply fixing any mistakes, good drafting, and building a consistent top tier team through one of the most difficult league situations possible. I've lived through actual bad GMs. Many here don't know how good they had it. They may be finding out.

and now you want to judge current GM handcuffed with NMCs, no picks, no prospects, overpaid un-movable Marner,aging un-movable JT based on what move exactly?

Marner and Tavares are two of the best parts of this team, and Treliving wasn't handcuffed at all. He had tons of cap space, plenty of picks, plenty of trade options, a good prospect pool with multiple ELCs left by Dubas, and a top tier team. I'm judging the current GM on the decisions the current GM makes.

 

[rumman]

The Leafs were built into a strong defensive team by their previous GM. Treliving destroyed that in one offseason.

 

[ToneDog]

One of the major problems is any fan could see the problem and do a better job. Brad threw crud at the wall and it didn't stick. When ownership doesn't care about the fans this is what you get. The wheels have fallen off we just haven't heard the crash yet. I'd rather watch any of the older teams I was more entertained. This is more like torture after you already dead. Marner is brutally over rated , Tavares isn't a captain and Keefe sucks. Brad is now a deer stuck in the maple leafs headlights.To have so much talent and suck is pathetic.

Don't know about you, but I am tired of watching shinny.

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[Mess]

The Leafs were built into a strong defensive team by their previous GM. Treliving destroyed that in one offseason.

The comparison of the results before and after are astonishing so vastly different.

Last year after 11 games Record = 5-4-2

This year after 11 games Record = 5-4-2

 

[Dekes For Days]

The comparison of the results before and after are astonishing so vastly different.

You were talking about defense. Way to move the goalposts. Last year, we at least had good underlying metrics during our slow start, and multiple things that indicated that we'd come out of it and get back to being a top tier team in the standings too. Can't say the same this year.
Want to share with us what happened next last year?
And I assume you were preaching the same patience that you are now?

 

[IPS]

The Leafs were built into a strong defensive team by their previous GM. Treliving destroyed that in one offseason.

I'll remind you folks that this is coming from a poster who's main go-to argument when they get cornered is "it's a small sample size"

But as we see here that's completely irrelevant when defending the cult leader.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I'll remind you folks that this is coming from a poster who's main go-to argument when they get cornered is "it's a small sample size"
But as we see here that's completely irrelevant when defending the cult leader.

I'll remind you that the only time I mention sample size being problematic is when people are using problematic sample sizes. Of course this is a small sample size. I've said as much multiple times. Nobody has said that we're going to end the season with 89 points, and hopefully we can turn things around.

But our underlying metrics are also bad, and the impacts we're seeing are pretty much exactly what was predicted based on who was signed.
I wasn't aware that we were only allowed to talk about what's currently happening when it presents an opportunity to dump on Dubas.

 

[IPS]

I'll remind you that the only time I mention sample size being problematic is when people are using problematic sample sizes.

Yeah we're supposed to believe that if Dubas was still in charge you wouldn't be squealing at the top of your lungs about sample size if people were calling the team bad defensively.

You're too predictable buddy.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yeah we're supposed to believe that if Dubas was still in charge you wouldn't be squealing at the top of your lungs about sample size if people were calling the team bad defensively.

If Dubas was still in charge, it is very unlikely that our team would be bad defensively in the first place. He actually valued defense.
But if we were, I'd point it out just the same, and acknowledge the small sample just the same as I have here.

 

[IPS]

If Dubas was still in charge, it is very unlikely that our team would be bad defensively in the first place. He actually valued that.
But if we were, I'd point it out just the same, and acknowledge the small sample just the same as I have here.

Oh really? So if we were gonna go through Dubas' entire tenure we couldn't find a stretch this bad defensively? Because if we did we know your argument would flip on a dime.

"But if we were, I'd point it out just the same, and acknowledge the small sample just the same as I have here."

You say this as if you didn't just scorn Treliving barely 1 page ago for assembling a bad defensive team based on a smalls sample size. Memory not so good today or something?

 

[Gallagbi]

If Dubas was still in charge, it is very unlikely that our team would be bad defensively in the first place. He actually valued defense.
But if we were, I'd point it out just the same, and acknowledge the small sample just the same as I have here.

We'll get better when we inevitably start creating more 5on5 chances but there is no question we brought in some limited defensive players.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Oh really? So if we were gonna go through Dubas' entire tenure we couldn't find a stretch this bad defensively?

I mean, if you want to desperately search through Dubas' tenure to find a bad defensive stretch, go right ahead. I'm not sure what you think it will prove.
There's also a difference between a continuation of quality or a bad defensive stretch through a bigger sample of good defensive play, and having a good defensive team, signing a bunch of horrible defensive players, and then predictably plummeting in the rankings through the entire available sample, but you do you.

You say this as if you didn't just scorn Treliving for assembling a bad defensive team based on a smalls sample size.

I pointed out that we've been bad defensively this year so far, and noted the person who signed the biggest culprits, in response to somebody making comments about the value of defense. And I've acknowledged the small sample size. So.. exactly what I said.

 

[Marshy]

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