Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose. Thornton on the first PP unit. Weak. Nice work keefe. Do better.

[Ziggdiezan]

I know it’s harder to facilitate but wouldn’t moving marner be more ideal as far as team building goes. You can basically turn marner into 3 or 4 second/third line players and build much stronger depth.

You don't win a trade if you trade Marner. He is that special of a player and not many teams will be able to fit his cap hit so the return would be extra bad with likely cap dumps coming the other way.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

You don't win a trade if you trade Marner. He is that special of a player and not many teams will be able to fit his cap hit so the return would be extra bad with likely cap dumps coming the other way.

Which is fair, but then this core needs to figure it out cause you got 3 players like that

 

[Twine Tickler]

Hoping you're right, but I'm sure our key players have the past 4 playoff failures in their head and many are probably thinking back to last year's CLB series.

Getting ahead if absolutely crucial for us and we're down 1. What we saw from MTL in game 1 can't happen as they go down in a game and down in the series.

Getting ahead did us sweet f*** all in 2018-19. we had a 1-0, 2-1, and 3-2 series leads. If we want to reference demons of the past, than getting ahead in the series would not exactly mean much.

lets reserve judgement on this team if/when they don't get past Montreal. This pack it in mentality after 1 game is part of the reason this team never succeeds in the first place. A large portion of the fanbase expects failure. There is still a f*** ton of hockey to be played, and half of this fanbase is talking about shit that is irrelevant to them winning the next 4 games. My opinions of this team don't shift game to game. My opinions of VGK didn't change after losing game 1 either. I'll gladly jump on the train of misery if they end up coming up short, but until then I'll keep my head up

 

[Byron Bitz]

Can Foligno play center?

 

[moon111]

Let's give Montreal credit, they gave no time or space to the Leafs whatsoever. A snipe into the top corner turned into a hit post. A clearing attempt ended up as a puck over the glass.

That is not going to change.

One of the biggest problems the Leafs have had in past years is they would have some above average defensive defender in their end, end up getting the puck and have zero support.
Often this lead to a mistake playing the puck. Against Montreal, doesn't matter if it's Rielly or Marincin, you need to be there to help them out.

In the offensive zone and the power-play... you're not going to have time to make a pretty play, or even snipe the puck they way you normally would. Hit the post eh?
What you need is someone to play the Tim Kerr-role. Dave Andreychuk, John Van Riemsdyk... go to the net and stay there. You have very little chance to
pass or shoot... just get the puck on net. Someone like Wayne Simmonds should be in Price's wheelhouse. Get into his head, the canadiens head, etc.

Respond as a team. One thing that doesn't show up on the stats sheet, what Wendel felt, the entire team felt. If you woke up Clark, you woke up the Leafs.
If you pissed him off, you pissed off the team. Foligno's fight was Foligno's fight. Don't care right or wrong, when something like that goes down, there's
never anyone else responding. Especially in the playoffs, you get in there too. You start at least pushing and shoving, yipping off, and maybe grapple a bit
if that's all you can do. Foligno provided a good lesson. HE won't be beaten.... but everyone around him, they're a push-over.

 

[BertCorbeau]

A lot could change i just don't see them moving Marner over Nylander. He is one of the main guys in the leadership group. Always him giving the entire team high fives when they go on/off the ice. Plus he is a local kid, I just don't think he will ever be traded. Nylander as you said has played well and is paid much less, this should also help get a really good return if a shakeup is needed

At the same time if a core shake up is needed, after 5 early exits, Marner might be the best way to shake up the leadership group and core.

I agree he brings a lot of good intangible and tangible qualities, but at the end of the day if he can't step up and produce in the playoffs like he can in the regular season... that's a big issue.

If he could take it up a notch, with Matthews, they should be a dominate force in the NHL playoffs. We need them to take that line to Pasta-Bergeron-Marchand levels.

With JT out, this is their time to step up and lead this team out of the first round. The have the offensive ability to carry this team for a round, collectively, so it's time for Marner to step up and do it.

 

[BertCorbeau]

The PP needs to be more like we saw in their first attempt .. Almost desperation level with fast puck movement and quick shots on net.

None of this perimeter, static passing. The need the urgency to retrieve pucks as well.

 

[mrbagina]

I agree with you. This is what has bothered me the most in the last week. Keefe pulled the "best line on paper" maneuver. Galchenyuk has worked so hard since coming here and was getting hot again toward the end of the regular season. Ditto Engvall. Nash should have been slowly integrated on the 4th line after an injury or to replace a slumping player (Thornton). Do not mess with past chemistry at the start of the playoffs.

Inserting Nash gave me a bad feeling for some of the reasons you stated. That line had zero chemistry. Also people are saying yea but Nash doesnt let the other team score while at the same time acknowledging that the leafs will not score with him on the ice. So is this the 3rd line we want to see? One that is just empty space doing nothing one way or another?

 

[MoreMogilny]

I honestly have no idea who can adequately step in to the 2c role and perform. We need someone who can develop quick chemistry with Nylander and make that line a threat.

I’m assuming Galchenyuk plays next game. Maybe Engvall who was hot at the end of the season. Either way, we need more scoring threats through the lineup. If it all falls on the top line we aren’t getting out of this round.

 

[showtime8]

Gotta love all the hot takes. I'm glad I don't have to watch the end of this series because everyone has come to the conclusion that Montreal is going to take it because Toronto will lose in typical Leafs fashion. The same way we made up our mind with Bogosian and Brodie after their first 2 games.

I'm not here to say that Thornton was amazing or that Simmonds made a huge impact, but I'll say that you need more out of the 3rd and 4th lines. I don't think Keefe has the stones to sit Jumbo after a tough game either.

I think that we'll see a very similar line-up, but move Foligno to centre on the 2nd line and insert Galchenyuk on the wing. I thought Nylander was easily the best forward yesterday, so I have no problems with that line going.

Leafs will win game 2.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I honestly have no idea who can adequately step in to the 2c role and perform. We need someone who can develop quick chemistry with Nylander and make that line a threat.

I’m assuming Galchenyuk plays next game. Maybe Engvall who was hot at the end of the season. Either way, we need more scoring threats through the lineup. If it all falls on the top line we aren’t getting out of this round.

It'll be Kerfoot, like it or hate it.

Engvall may draw in as the #3C too.. Leafs need to ignite some offensive threats in their bottom six:

Foligno-Matthews-Marner
Galchenyuk-Kerfoot-Nylander
Hyman-Engvall-Mikheyev
Thornton-Brooks-Spezza

Engvall responds really well when he steps into the lineup after being sat in the press box. Combined with his good finish to the year, and I really would like to get him in the lineup tomorrow.

You could also flip Kerfoot and Brooks, and use Chucky-Brooks-Nylander in a sheltered role since they have last change. Kerfoot is more responsibly defensively and did well with the old guys earlier in the year.

Reunite that third line that had a great few games while Matthews' was out hurt

 

[OppositeLocK]

The PP needs to be more like we saw in their first attempt .. Almost desperation level with fast puck movement and quick shots on net.

None of this perimeter, static passing. The need the urgency to retrieve pucks as well.

Or we could just try offensive zone blue line drop passes and two line stretch passes

 

[mrbagina]

The best way to stop a bully is to punch him in the face. Andersen should never touch the puck for more than 2 seconds before a Leaf hits him, He is a big quick man, that needs to be slowed down, he was by far the best player on the ice last night. If I'm Simmonds, I know I'm pretty much useless at this point, I have my size and my speed, Simmonds needs to focus on hitting and defending, nothing more. If I'm Simmonds I'm picking a few people like Andersen and I'm hitting to hurt them. If I'm Foligno, I'm hitting to hurt, if I'm Joe I'm hitting to hurt. the hands might be gone but the size is not.

I was shocked and disappointed that none of this happened. I was certain it would. I was wrong.

 

[Optimist]

Dermott doesn't play the PP though

Yes but this could have happened in any situation. My point is this. Why don't we ice our best defensemen. You know. The ones that can play defense? We have plenty of gifted offensive players without having to sacrifice our defense for more offense.

 

[mrbagina]

This is a ridiculous take. Every coach in the league starts Riley Nash in that spot last night, just as they started Hyman (also returning from injury). Had they not, all we'd hear today is how we went out and got Nash and didn't even use him and how stupid the Leafs are.
We lost a close game in which we lost our captain in a gruesome freak incident while our opponent gave us everything they had. The Habs always play us hard. The games are almost always close. It was never going to be a sweep. Engvall and Gally were most certainly not the difference last night.

We will come back. Saturday will be ours.

I hated the 3rd line last night and Nash was a big reason why. Zero chemistry. I hate that we have dumbed down our 3rd line into a non factor one way or the other. Nothing happens when he is on the ice good or bad? We need scoring depth not a dead line that does nothing. Maybe when we have a lead late in the game sure put Nash out there but otherwise why?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

You don't win a trade if you trade Marner. He is that special of a player and not many teams will be able to fit his cap hit so the return would be extra bad with likely cap dumps coming the other way.

Poor teams (ie, most of the league) would be flat out desperate for Marner. Trade him after July 1st when he gets his signing bonus, and you get four years of Marner for 5 million a year in real money. A 100 point player for 5 mil... they would make whatever cap adjustments were necessary.

 

[mrbagina]

Sandin is responsible for how Sandin handles his coverage. Not Thornton.

Tie him up, trip him, off-set the penalty..

The flail on your belly reach around poke-check is a junior move that doesn't fly in the NHL.

That whole play was the 4 stooges...Matthews drop pass to Thornton with no time or space, Thornton not recognizing this and should have just dumped it in, Sandin out on the pp maybe too long and gassed and Soup failing on the poke check.

 

[Welsh Maple Leaf]

good to know you are new here, its kind of a ritual if you are bad luck for some of us. if we see when we came to see the game and it brough ill luck, well we just stop watching. nice to know how judgemental you are though and easy to jump to conclusion.

P.S. we are still allowed to watch highlights.

Absolutely pathetic

 

[OppositeLocK]

Poor teams (ie, most of the league) would be flat out desperate for Marner. Trade him after July 1st when he gets his signing bonus, and you get four years of Marner for 5 million a year in real money. A 100 point player for 5 mil... they would make whatever cap adjustments were necessary.

Can't build a team around Marner just like you can't build a team around Kessel.

 

[mrbagina]

Nobody is panicking. Simply pointing out that the exact same issues that plagued this group last year vs Columbus, were evident again last night. Badly out hit vs a trapping team that congested the neutral zone and stooped the Leafs from making pretty passes. The result was another lifeless offensive effort, despite 4 powerplay opportunities, 3x 2 on 1's (all botched) and numerous high danger dances in which highly paid forwards didn't show enough scoring class to finish.

I hate to agree but I agree

 

[OppositeLocK]

Carey Price is still a good goalie and has the ability the steal a series. Add in the fact that the smallest Dman on MTL is Kulak at a measly 6'1, with every other one being either 6'3 or 6'4 and 226 lbs.

Combine that with a tight checking game and the Leafs who shy away from physical contact.

You can get away with it but you need a great skating system (see Chicago with Kane).

 

[mrbagina]

Sandin is not fast, Byron is very fast.

Sandin makes up for his lack of explosiveness with hockey IQ, by being in the right spot. That play is 100% on Thornton for turning the puck over at the blueline and forcing a foot race between an average skater and one of the fastest players in the league.

The more I have looked at that play the more I blame matthews. Thornton had nowhere to go and no time to do it with that drop pass from Matty.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Can't build a team around Marner just like you can't build a team around Kessel.

How is this on Marner alone? last I checked it was the core 4 not just Mitch Marner and company. ANd explain to me the last time Phil Kessel was top 5 in NHL scoring?

2 different players and 2 completely different era's of Leafs teams. When Kessel was here the team was a steaming pile of dog shit. Marner is a key component to our team, and you'll likely be sniffing his jock after he puts up 3pts next game.

 

[OppositeLocK]

How is this on Marner alone? last I checked it was the core 4 not just Mitch Marner and company. ANd explain to me the last time Phil Kessel was top 5 in NHL scoring?

2 different players and 2 completely different era's of Leafs teams. When Kessel was here the team was a steaming pile of dog shit. Marner is a key component to our team, and you'll likely be sniffing his jock after he puts up 3pts next game.

Oh yeah, can't wait for those sweet secondary passes points. What are the advanced stats predictions?

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

I honestly have no idea who can adequately step in to the 2c role and perform. We need someone who can develop quick chemistry with Nylander and make that line a threat.

I’m assuming Galchenyuk plays next game. Maybe Engvall who was hot at the end of the season. Either way, we need more scoring threats through the lineup. If it all falls on the top line we aren’t getting out of this round.

Kerfoot and Nylander showed some chemistry early in the year

But I think the blender might be out for 3 of the 4 lines for parts of game 2 to see what works