Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose in a Shootout 4-3

[Nithoniniel]

Seriously, what's up with people trying to hold me being a Swede against me? That has happened half a dozen times lately.

 

[Tall Morty]

Seriously, what's up with people trying to hold me being a Swede against me? That has happened half a dozen times lately.

Looking for anything they can point out to take the focus off the fact that they have no real argument to make.

 

[Pi]

I don't understand how the guy running our offence lately (Marner) is being so under-used in situations. Live or die by him in OT instead of barely playing him

Baby steps I guess. At least they don’t trot out Komarov on a 3v3 anymore. 3v3 is barely hockey. You don’t try to defend with plugs, you need an attacking mindset.

 

[FlareKnight]

I hate on Babs' decisions as much as anyone but he said in the post-game that he didn't like the way the 5-3 turned out so people can just give that a rest. He expected a quick 30 second shift for Marleau-Leivo on 4-3 and then a fresh Nylander-Marner for the duration of the 5-3. Instead they kept the pressure on and couldn't change. It happens.

The one issue with that I have is that when a guy came out of the box and went to the bench....he sent out Kadri. Even if he didn't expect them to stay in the zone for most of that powerplay he had a chance to change players and get at least one of those two on the ice. Heck this was in the second period so if they wanted to make a change they had a good means of doing so. It isn't as if making a line change when holding zone posession is unheard of. Less on a PP sure, but as the seconds ticked away it was an option.

In the end it happens. He messed up. Not quite as ridiculous as forgetting to put a guy in the penalty box that one time. Hopefully an error he won't replicate too often.

 

[Pi]

Seriously, what's up with people trying to hold me being a Swede against me? That has happened half a dozen times lately.

Ignore them. I remember a guy with an Indian flag around here that was endlessly berated for no reason at all. Poor guy probably just stopped posting.

I try my best to converse with people with differing point of views but if they attack me personally I just ignore them.

 

[Crosscrease14]

Plekanec had two penalties including one late in the game. His play didn't impress me at all.

Would've liked to have seen Bozak in the shootout

 

[Nithoniniel]

The one issue with that I have is that when a guy came out of the box and went to the bench....he sent out Kadri. Even if he didn't expect them to stay in the zone for most of that powerplay he had a chance to change players and get at least one of those two on the ice. Heck this was in the second period so if they wanted to make a change they had a good means of doing so. It isn't as if making a line change when holding zone posession is unheard of. Less on a PP sure, but as the seconds ticked away it was an option.

In the end it happens. He messed up. Not quite as ridiculous as forgetting to put a guy in the penalty box that one time. Hopefully an error he won't replicate too often.

I think Kadri came out due to positioning. Gardiner also came out instead of Rielly, but Marleau was on the far side and Leivo kept retrieving the puck so they stayed in.

I put forward that theory during the game, that it was supposed to be a line switch there. My issue is that in a situation like that, if you get a bit of pressure there's a good chance that there won't be the normal change situation. There's also really no need to plan for a change with a 4-on-3 turning into a 5-on-3. That's about as easy minutes as you can get.

 

[Pi]

Plekanec had two penalties including one late in the game. His play didn't impress me at all.

Would've liked to have seen Bozak in the shootout

Bozak went second in the shootout.

Plekanec was good in the offensive zone and bad in ours and good on the PK. It was an okay debut.

 

[Kiwi]

Seriously, what's up with people trying to hold me being a Swede against me? That has happened half a dozen times lately.

Take it as a complement, it just means they can't form a coherent argument to refute what your saying

 

[Polaris1010]

Not a single player above 45%. Not a single Tampa player below 50%. We got dominated by every line/player.

Sorry, but what you are saying is meaningless.

Simply put, how to you constitute the meaning the word "dominated" in the context of a hockey game with these percentages?

If Coresi measure possession, then that means time of possession. There is a similar stat in pro football, called time of possession. Teams that dominate time of possession, do not automatically win. It is just one factor in the outcome of a football game. Other theories, one revolves around the last two possession a team has in the game, which seems to be a far better predict who wins who losses.

There are two problems here.

What "dominated" means here is undefined.

Even if you define it arbitrarily (which introduces bias), can you accurately use it to say who will win, compared to other factors, such as goaltending, scoring, or specialty teams?

All you're just saying is this number is bigger than the other number.

 

[Crosscrease14]

Bozak went second in the shootout.

Plekanec was good in the offensive zone and bad in ours and good on the PK. It was an okay debut.

My bad for some reason I thought it was Nylander- Marner- JvR but it was Bozak .

 

[Kiwi]

Bozak went second in the shootout.

Plekanec was good in the offensive zone and bad in ours and good on the PK. It was an okay debut.

He'll get better once he actually gets a practice or two in, I remember Boyle struggling in his first couple of games last year to

 

[firstemperor]

Bozak went second in the shootout.

Plekanec was good in the offensive zone and bad in ours and good on the PK. It was an okay debut.

I kept an eye on Plek the entire game, I thought he played ok besides the bad penalties. He's going to have a tough job out there, I think Komarov is good defensively but he can't drive play and the play routinely dies on his stick..Hyman has been trending the opposite way these days because he's actually carrying the puck in with speed, or causing a lot of havoc on the forecheck these days.

He's on a line that has played defensive hockey for the entire season now.....Komarov has been the worst P/60 guy in the league with any significant minutes. He's been pretty bad this year, I don't think he's bad enough to take off the team based on his play on the ice, and certainly what he provides in the locker room but it's just some context on how far he's declined this year. It's pretty disheartening to see some times because he's been a warrior for us.

 

[Pi]

I kept an eye on Plek the entire game, I thought he played ok besides the bad penalties. He's going to have a tough job out there, I think Komarov is good defensively but he can't drive play and the play routinely dies on his stick..Hyman has been trending the opposite way these days because he's actually carrying the puck in with speed, or causing a lot of havoc on the forecheck these days.

He's on a line that has played defensive hockey for the entire season now.....Komarov has been the worst P/60 guy in the league with any significant minutes. He's been pretty bad this year, I don't think he's bad enough to take off the team based on his play on the ice, and certainly what he provides in the locker room but it's just some context on how far he's declined this year. It's pretty disheartening to see some times because he's been a warrior for us.

Komarov has declined in a hurry. I’m worried the Leafs will re-sign him like they did with Polak. We should give Grundstrom a chance to take that spot next year.

The more we improve, the harder it is to justify players like Polak and Komarov playing significant minutes.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Ignore them. I remember a guy with an Indian flag around here that was endlessly berated for no reason at all. Poor guy probably just stopped posting.

I try my best to converse with people with differing point of views but if they attack me personally I just ignore them.

Take it as a complement, it just means they can't form a coherent argument to refute what your saying

I usually ignore it nowadays, but I needed to defend a fellow poster for some reason tonight.

I'm mostly perplexed why my nationality has become a thing. It never happened earlier, now it seems to be brought up every time someone attacks me personally.

 

[robertmac43]

Let's all give Turtleneck Thomas a break here. First game, there is going to be an adjustment period!

 

[Pi]

Let's all give Turtleneck Thomas a break here. First game, there is going to be an adjustment period!

Yeah he’s probably had a tough day or two. He’s got young kids and a family back in Montreal, flew to Toronto for a medical before coming to Tampa. It’s going to take 3-4 games for him to get acclimated. It wasn’t that bad, I liked that he was physical. Second penalty was unfortunate. Glad the Leafs killed it off for him late in the third.

 

[Critical13]

Sorry, but what you are saying is meaningless.

Simply put, how to you constitute the meaning the word "dominated" in the context of a hockey game with these percentages?

If Coresi measure possession, then that means time of possession. There is a similar stat in pro football, called time of possession. Teams that dominate time of possession, do not automatically win. It is just one factor in the outcome of a football game. Other theories, one revolves around the last two possession a team has in the game, which seems to be a far better predict who wins who losses.

There are two problems here.

What "dominated" means here is undefined.

Even if you define it arbitrarily (which introduces bias), can you accurately use it to say who will win, compared to other factors, such as goaltending, scoring, or specialty teams?

All you're just saying is this number is bigger than the other number.

This has always been my thought about Corsi as well.

 

[Kiwi]

I usually ignore it nowadays, but I needed to defend a fellow poster for some reason tonight.

I'm mostly perplexed why my nationality has become a thing. It never happened earlier, now it seems to be brought up every time someone attacks me personally.

I get that a fair bit to, discussing hockey which we all love doing and having disagreements seems to devolve into personal insults pretty quickly

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Seriously, what's up with people trying to hold me being a Swede against me? That has happened half a dozen times lately.

That’s really despicable, people can disagree but it should only be about the topic.

 

[Nithoniniel]

This has always been my thought about Corsi as well.

I'm a big proponent of shot metrics, but there's a recent trend that I don't like in that people use them to judge single games. There are some problems with that:

1) Stats can be valuable in two ways. They can either describe what has happened, or they can predict what's going to happen. Shot metrics aren't especially great at the first, their value lies in the second. What that poster did was to use them for a descriptive purpose though.
2) Shot metrics work by looking at everything that happens when a player is on the ice, and over time find trends that show that a certain player can have a certain influence. That requires a large sample size, otherwise it's a lot of noise. You don't get that sample size in one game.

So basically, they are not all that valuable when talking about a single game like that. Doesn't mean that they were wrong though. Zaitsev and Gardiner being somewhere around 25% in shot attempts and not much better in expected goals lines up pretty well with what I saw from them. Just a whole lot of bad transition attempts and shaky defense.

In this case, I'd say they are wrong. You can balance the shot metrics against that we had more high quality chances, or the fact that we hit five posts, missed on a shootout attempt and a breakaway, and had a puck dancing along the goal line. At some point it's just clear that the shot metrics didn't describe the game very well this time.

 

[KIWILEAFFAN]

I get that a fair bit to, discussing hockey which we all love doing and having disagreements seems to devolve into personal insults pretty quickly

I have been dying to pick on you coz your from the Naki but my extra finger gets in the way of the keyboard when ever I get excited.

 

[hamzarocks]

the torch has been passed. The award for clear-cut troll has gone from Winter Soldier(back when that guy was on this site) to Vince Vega/Maple Leafs, to Minus Mitch, to Discordia. He/She must hate Nylander. Has constantly been saying he can't make it as a center. Nylander had a great game on Saturday versus the Bruins. Tonight was not Nylander's best performance but he had good moments as well. Be patient with willy, he has not played center constantly since 15/16 season ending. Nylander will be a center if Babcock, see's that being the best way to maximize Nylander's value to the team. Overall very happy with most aspects of Nylander's game. Still has areas he needs to improve such as going closer to the paint, being less passive along the boards, and trying to bring variety in his shot selection. However, the guy is what 21? and is going to be a multiple time 60+ point scorer. Has elite puck carrying skills, smooth skater, can drive play and tilt the ice with his skating. Nylander will be a 65 point player with ease from here on out. If he wants to get to the next level it will come down to being more assertive and natrually learning when to go for the offense as a center vs when to be digging for pucks. Nonis/Shanahan did an amazing job taking Nylander and leafs have done very good developing him to the point where he is a 1st line winger with room to become a top 30 center within 2 years. Marner has seemed to take the next step and has found confidence in his shot. I am sure Nylander will start finding the net and potting goals more once as he expands his offensive game further. I would play Nylander center every game from here on out. Let him learn on the job, and be able to improve as a result. Matthews can play with Kapanen when he gets back and gives Nylander a good puck retriever like brown and a shooter like jvr.

Hoping our lines once matthews is back are

hyman-matthews-kapanen
marleau-kadri-marner
jvr-nylander-brown
komo-bozka/plek-plek/bozak.

We would have an elite 4th line, a all out offensive 3rd line that can feast on matchups, a 2nd line that has amazing chemistry, and a top line with great skill+effort.

 

[Discordia]

Swedes don't have a good reputation anymore. Seen as weak, pathetic, delusional, suicidal, spirit shattering politically correct, etc. It's a political discussion as to why so not appropriate here. Just a sudden, massive shift in reputation for the Country and it's people. Obvious reasons.

As to why they bring it up to attack someone regarding hockey? Not sure. I'd see nationality getting in the way if a bias was present IE: Swede defending Nylander, Fin defending Laine, etc. otherwise not sure.

----------

Regarding Corsi: I agree that it doesn't tell the full story of a game, but I think it does a lot of the leg work. What I saw lined up pretty well with the corsi stats.

It even opened my eyes to my own bias regarding Nylander - he had an awful, awful game. I was to busy defending him to notice.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Meh game, happy with the point. Hopefully we can take both tomorrow.

Hoping Willy can catch fire like Mitch has, would be huge going into the playoffs