Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose... Again.

[notDatsyuk]

Let's look at it logically, a team with Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares was able to muster ONE playoff round win. Maybe losing Nylander and being able to address the D and goaltending with the cap space isn't the worst thing in the world?

Not the worst, but likely not the best.

His current cap is only 7M - maybe hanging on for one more year and losing Tavares (11M) and maybe Marner (combined 22M) would address the D and G better?

 

[notDatsyuk]

I’m not to found of 16 and his salary, 88 isn’t going to be worth what he’ll get either. Neither are pieces I would build around if starting from scratch……..


I’m serious, at this point what’s another loss season………

At their current salaries (11 and 7) or their projected ones (12 and 11) or even at the same salary, if you had to pick one to keep, which would it be?

 

[notDatsyuk]

I'd rather have a 10M defender or a centre to replace Tavares than Nylander

Nylander plays zero defense, adding to our already weak defense.

You do realize that he leads the team in takeaways and short-handed goals and assists, right?

I'd certainly rather have a 10M 2C than Tavares, but Nylander might qualify on both counts.

 

[notDatsyuk]

If a team out bids us, they out bid us, we cant make the mistake of budgeting 50-ish % of the cap to 4 really good players. Love Willie, love his skill, hate his price tag. If it comes down to Nylander looking for 10-11-12 mil, we move him before the TDL for players who have controllable years, players that fill a need on this team for the next 3 to 5 years. I think this team is too slow and too small. They play poorly with out the puck. Make it clear to Willie that if he wants 10m, 11m, 12m he will have to go elsewhere, have the same convo with Mitch and have the convo with JT if he wants to stay he will have to sign a contract significantly lower with limited years. Time to stop p***yfooting around, either you are part of the solution or you are part of the problem. You got your one toy at 12m, that is enough above 10 mil, the rest of the players need to be below 10 mil.

The "50-ish % of the cap is going to Matthews, Tavares, Marner, and Rielly, only two of which are "really good players".

Dumping the second-best player (and currently fifth-highest paid - maybe fourth or even third when they get their new contracts), doesn't feel like the best choice.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Marner has a full NMC straight to UFA. So does Matthews. So does Tavares. So does Rielly.

There’s one core guy we have the option of trading but everyone wants to trade the ones we can’t. Besides, Marner has outplayed Nylander every single year of his career except this one so far.

Sure if Marner wants to do us a favour and waive the NMC he negotiated to go to any team we should explore that also. I’m being realistic though instead of praying Marner wants to freely waive the NMC he negotiated for.

Marner is less likely to waive his NMC because he’s born here and his wife is from here. If we don’t want him, he’s not going to be doing the team any favours - as his RFA negotiations have shown.

It's not that "everyone wants to trade the ones we can't", but we understand the different value, and think keeping the better player (than JT or Mitch at least) is worth one more year of suffering (and we might be rid of Keefe too).

 

[Divine]

It's not that "everyone wants to trade the ones we can't", but we understand the different value, and think keeping the better player (than JT or Mitch at least) is worth one more year of suffering (and we might be rid of Keefe too).

Now please propose how you're going to convince Marner or Tavares (both born in the GTA with wives born in the GTA with both sets of families residing in the GTA) to waive their NTC for the good of the team.

No one cares if you think trading Marner, who has outplayed Nylander the majority of his career is the better option. He can't be traded without his permission.

Unless you have insider information that he's willing to do the Leafs a favor and the No Movement Clause he negotiated was meaningless - the logical answer is let's try to trade the player without the NMC.

The players with NMC have full control until they're UFA's. The decision is up to them, not up to the team.

Control the things you can control.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Who knows.

I was just meaning that the Leafs will not throw away this year like some fans want them to.

They'll be making trades in order to try and win a Cup this season.

Unless they can swing a deal like Reeves for Makar and Sorokin, they aren't winning the cup this year.

Unless Tre can do a vastly better job at the trade deadline than Dubas ever did, I'd rather not waste any more potential on another doomed attempt.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I understand our system and Marner's role in the play perfectly. You're the one expecting to play man on man defense with less men than the other team. The system does not say that Brodie should make a bad pinch he'll never make in time on the trailing forward in the neutral zone on the PK, and leave two attacking forwards behind him. And even in some weird world where it did, hockey is about more than systems. You need to understand and adapt to the unique situations that develop. They were on the PK, both forwards were in the neutral zone already after expecting a breakout pass that missed and went straight to the other team, Brodie was never going to make the pinch in time, and he'd risk opening up a 2 on 1 when the only real alternative if he didn't pinch was a 2v2 turning into a 3v3, which you want every time on the PK. That was not the play in that situation, regardless of whatever you think the system is. Marner should have read the play forming out of Brodie's bad decision quicker, but that should not have been his role in the play in the first place.

Marner made two minor mistakes on the goals against. What you describe aren't minor mistakes, but what you describe is wildly inaccurate. It wasn't a "brutal turnover". It was a reasonable one foot pass in the offensive zone to our 2nd best goal scorer who was calling for a pass while down a goal in the last minute with no other passing options and everybody going to the net. He didn't "sulk in the neutral zone", "abandon his position", have a "lazy backcheck", or "give up". He was half a second late reacting to a bad pinch by our defenseman after the other defenseman flubbed the breakout pass, and wasn't able to catch a speedy forward with a jump on him. You're letting the result skew your perception of the actual action.

The only blinders that seem to be on are blinders to everybody's else's contributions to the goals against, in order to incorrectly hyperbolize Marner's.
Taking the penalty that they score on? Who cares.
Doing nothing all game so that we need to pull the goalie? Who cares.
Flubbing the pass? Who cares.
Making a bad pinch and causing a 2 on 1? Who cares.
Going into a bad area and calling for a pass? Who cares.
Falling down and not creating any passing lanes when you have an extra player? Who cares.

But Marner breathes and out come the pitchforks.
He's struggled through patches this year, and it wasn't a particularly good game for him, but so much is being hyperbolized, and there are much bigger problems than Marner - in those goals, in this game, and throughout this season.

Yep - everyone is wearing blinders except you.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Now please propose how you're going to convince Marner or Tavares (both born in the GTA with wives born in the GTA with both sets of families residing in the GTA) to waive their NTC for the good of the team.

No one cares if you think trading Marner, who has outplayed Nylander the majority of his career is the better option. He can't be traded without his permission.

Unless you have insider information that he's willing to do the Leafs a favor and the No Movement Clause he negotiated was meaningless - the logical answer is let's try to trade the player without the NMC.

The players with NMC have full control until they're UFA's. The decision is up to them, not up to the team.

Control the things you can control.

I never even suggested trying to convince either to waive their NTCs.

I very specifically said 'one more year', i. e., when their contracts expire.

Control the things you can control - like reading the post you are responding to.

 

[Divine]

I never even suggested trying to convince either to waive their NTCs.

I very specifically said 'one more year', i. e., when their contracts expire.

Control the things you can control - like reading the post you are responding to.

Oh, okay.

So your plan is keep trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? Got it.

No changes - let's just run the status quo and keep increasing the salary of our core players - maybe that will work?

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

The Leafs situation is what you would call a "pig in a poke".

They have the worst goalie in the league last year. The worst defenseman in the league last year. And one of, if not the, worst defensively minded forward groups in the NHL.

I run for the bus faster than Tavares backchecks.

The difference is if I miss the bus I'm walking home. If Captain Boat Anchor misses his assignment he's still driving a Cadillac. No fear of repercussions leads to anarchy.

That's the state of this team right right now.

The situation resembles Chernoybl on April 25th. On the verge of implosion. The entire world is watching with baited breath for the meltdown.

That's what you get when you buy a sapling with no leaves.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Yep - everyone is wearing blinders except you.

I'm not wearing blinders.

 

[Sypher04]

Nothing guarantees them even round one, when the remaining games are simulated 1,000 times the Leafs finish with 96.7 points, the 9th place team (Tampa) finish with 89.7 points. Leafs are a bad week away from finishing outside of the playoffs. If you were going to bet on TBL or TML choking who is your money on? BTW I did say in September we would be a bubble team, if an Armchair GM like me could see this coming... how did the suits at MLSE not see this too?

You didn’t see THIS coming. You expressed your typical negativity and it just happens to be trending towards true lately after poor results in the last 6 games. The only reason why we’re even in any danger of being a bubble team is because our goaltending has been horrendous. Samsonov has single-handedly lost us probably a half dozen or more points in the standings, which no one was predicting in the offseason after how solid he was for us last year.

You choose to focus on saying we’re potentially one week away from being out of the playoffs. We are also potentially one week away from being 8 points clear of 4th place Tampa in the same number of games played.

 

[Sypher04]

Unless they can swing a deal like Reeves for Makar and Sorokin, they aren't winning the cup this year.

Unless Tre can do a vastly better job at the trade deadline than Dubas ever did, I'd rather not waste any more potential on another doomed attempt.

Tre absolutely 100% should be trying to improve the team this year for the playoffs. Just make sure the players you’re acquiring have term so they can be part of the solution beyond this season.

 

[Sypher04]

Oh, okay.

So your plan is keep trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? Got it.

No changes - let's just run the status quo and keep increasing the salary of our core players - maybe that will work?

Most teams tinker around their core. Saying we’ve just run back the status quo is a bad take. There has been a high amount of turnover in our team year over year. In fact, that’s imo part of the problem

 

[rumman]

At their current salaries (11 and 7) or their projected ones (12 and 11) or even at the same salary, if you had to pick one to keep, which would it be?

Obviously Nylander, he’s lived up to his current deal, but no way would I pay him 11, he’s no where near worth that kind of money………

 

[Shanwhatplan]

Boston is not deeper on offense. If anything, their biggest problem is consistent secondary scoring.

I don’t have the stats to prove it, maybe you do, it’s just my opinion. But we aren’t even close in the other two - goalies and defence, which always play a major part in the playoffs.

 

[Shanwhatplan]

Who knows.

I was just meaning that the Leafs will not throw away this year like some fans want them to.

They'll be making trades in order to try and win a Cup this season.

What worries me is that they may be willing to mortgage the future when they have too many holes to fill.

 

[Evilhomer]

I don’t have the stats to prove it, maybe you do, it’s just my opinion. But we aren’t even close in the other two - goalies and defence, which always play a major part in the playoffs.

Quality of defense, Boston should be better. Goaltending is a bit of an unknown. Swayman is playing well. Ullmark is too unreliable, especially in the playoffs. On the Leafs side, the $1,000,000 question is what Woll becomes this season. If he can consistently be the guy he was before the ankle injury, then Toronto's goaltending will be fine.

 

[ToneDog]

Quality of defense, Boston should be better. Goaltending is a bit of an unknown. Swayman is playing well. Ullmark is too unreliable, especially in the playoffs. On the Leafs side, the $1,000,000 question is what Woll becomes this season. If he can consistently be the guy he was before the ankle injury, then Toronto's goaltending will be fine.

Seriously ? Pretty sure Sweeney is sleeping like a baby while Tre is having nightmares when it comes to goaltending.

 

[Shanwhatplan]

Oh, okay.

So your plan is keep trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? Got it.

No changes - let's just run the status quo and keep increasing the salary of our core players - maybe that will work?

That is exactly what Shanahan has been doing. Nothing will change until he is gone, which unfortunately won’t be happening anytime soon.

 

[Evilhomer]

Seriously ? Pretty sure Sweeney is sleeping like a baby while Tre is having nightmares when it comes to goaltending.

I'm not sure he's sitting so pretty when he thinks about Ullmark's playoff performance. He was one of the main reasons for the loss against Florida last year.

 

[Shanwhatplan]

Quality of defense, Boston should be better. Goaltending is a bit of an unknown. Swayman is playing well. Ullmark is too unreliable, especially in the playoffs. On the Leafs side, the $1,000,000 question is what Woll becomes this season. If he can consistently be the guy he was before the ankle injury, then Toronto's goaltending will be fine.

I agree. I really hope Woll can overcome his injury problems.

 

[ToneDog]

I'm not sure he's sitting so pretty when he thinks about Ullmark's playoff performance. He was one of the main reasons for the loss against Florida last year.

Not sure if Ullmark was hurt or not but Montgomery went to Swayman too late. Either way, I'll take my chances with their two over whoever are our two are today. Our hopes fall on a kid who has barely played 30 NHL games, has a history of injuries and will be coming off a 2 month layoff, a 3rd string goalie and/or a goalie who is playing like the trash Washington threw to the curb. Two of the three made it through waivers. You truly are bullish.

 

[ToneDog]

That is exactly what Shanahan has been doing. Nothing will change until he is gone, which unfortunately won’t be happening anytime soon.

We suffered through 5 years of Dubas. We are now suffering through 6 years of Keefe and 10 years of Shanny. Unfortunately, it will take another playoff failure to get rid of both.