Leafs: a 500 team

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

the players have stopped listening.

You know this for sure?

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[shakes]

You know this for sure?

It's my opinion... just like everyone's posting on here. Just like making a post that the Leafs are a .500 team when their record doesn't indicate that.

 

[The Podium]

stop living in the past, i'm talking this season, next season....

I want my team to get better to win the cup, not to get better to be a bubble playoff team. If you are satisfied with what you are watching, then good for you

My opinion on the matter....

When your a team that gets point despite playing terrible, it usually means you have the player personnel of a playoff team. I'd say it's a cold streak, and it all stems down to coaching. Carlyle has been very timid this year, he isn't line matching well, he isn't getting the most out of his players and his stubbornness regarding line combinations is hurting the team. I still think the team is a Top 4 DFD away from being a real threat in the playoffs and were 6 points in a playoff spot so I think it's to early to declare the wheels falling off

I am by no means satisfied by how they are playing. But arguing the playoffs arent an objective is silly, since getting to the playoffs is the first step towards winning the cup, and while being in the playoffs anything can happen. Hell weak Montreal teams made it to the ECF despite being mediocre. Its the same thing year after year. A team with very little expectations rises to the occasion and makes it far, or potentially beat out the best team in the conference.

 

[Mess]

We are playing .500 hockey since a hot start. 18-20 games > 6-7 games.

Advanced Corsi stats nowadays do not lie.

I think many realized that everything wasn't not okay despite early wins because you can only defy the odds for so long.

A >> .940 sv% by your goalies is not sustainable over 82 games with this teams player personnel and was only masking the team weaknesses early on.

Leafs have only out shot opponents in 3 games this season and two of those came in game 1 and 3 of the year.

Leafs defensive make-up is designed for offense based on the strengths of its personnel and its the lowest scoring defense in the NHL. Defense is not their forte first and foremost and it leads to lack of team possession, give-aways and breakdowns.

Nonis has a lot of work still ahead of him to shape this team into a true contender otherwise they simply are a .500 average team essentially.

 

[ACC1224]

To me, when i watch the leafs play i keep telling myself to not have expectations. i don't get mad anymore, i know we overacheived and i'm waiting for management/coaches/players to step up

I guess that's the difference. I never get mad watching a game and I don't talk to myself.

 

[Canada4Gold]

We are playing .500 hockey since a hot start. 18-20 games > 6-7 games.

Or we could be in a 20 game slump early in the year when injuries occured.

Every team goes through slumps, even Cup winning teams. We don't know how good this team is yet. We could be coming back to reality after a hot start or we could be going through a slump due to injuries.

Leafs start hot than decline slowly to self destruction like every year. No surprises. Honestly lol

Leafs haven't been in a playoffs spot on January 1st since the 05 lockout and were only in a playoff spot twice on November 1st since that lockout. There is no yearly hot start followed by a decline yet everyone including Leaf fans themselves always seem to bring it up

 

[zeke]

Last 74gms: 98pt pace
Last 26gms: 98pt pace
Last 15gms: 93pt pace
Last 7gms: 94pt pace

 

[Suntouchable13]

I feel like this team is a good team. Sure, they have some flaws, like most teams, but they have a lot of talent. We'll have to see over 82 games to see what this team is. My gut feeling, they are a good team. They will be right there fighting for a top 3 spot in the division. They just have not established themselves yet as a true and consistently good team. That takes time.

 

[yakfish]

Correction: The Leafs are currently a .596 team.

 

[zeke]

and if we win tonight, then you can change those last 2 splits to:

Last 16gms: 97pt pace
Last 8gms: 103pt pace

 

[Bedards Dad]

Leafs start hot than decline slowly to self destruction like every year. No surprises. Honestly lol

Ya, well exact that is the exact opposite of reality. We normally storm back at the end, just falling short.


I love it, a few bad loses in a row and the sky is falling. Classic Leafs Board.

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

It really is clear that most people on this forum do not watch other teams.

Even the best of teams have the worst of games/weeks/months, and look terrible while doing it.

Leafs are 14-9-3, so no, they are not a .500 team.

if nothing is done to improve this team via a trade or coaching change within the next few days, we will be below .500 at the end of december. if we keep playing the way we do, we won't make the playoffs. we need to nip this in the bud now if we have any hopes of making the playoffs. this team is an embarrassment to watch. getting outshot every game isn't classified as a rough patch, its more a cry for help. seriously.

 

[Bedards Dad]

It really is clear that most people on this forum do not watch other teams.

Even the best of teams have the worst of games/weeks/months, and look terrible while doing it.

Leafs are 14-9-3, so no, they are not a .500 team.

Stop using facts!

 

[Canada4Gold]

I really only see 1 major problem with this team, and that's our breakout after we gain control of the puck in our zone.

The shots against are a direct result of that, we get the puck 2 or 3 times before we actually get it out, we just always seem to turn it over the first couple times we get it.

I think Carlyle does have a decent system at reducing shot quality when we don't have possession of the puck, the question I have is once we gain control of the puck does that system put our players in a bad position to get the puck out which in turn often leads to turnovers.

You give the other team 3 chances everytime they're int he zone they're going to outshoot you massively.

I don't think I've ever seen a team with as terrible at getting the puck out of the zone as we are. And it makes no sense. Carlyle is an experienced enough coach that he should be able to implement a system that works.

That's where my thought process from above comes in. If we have in fact found a system that keeps the shots to the outside that same system maybe puts us in terrible position once we get the puck which in turn leads to turnovers and a sky high shot clock.

If we had an average breakout along with this mythical "shot quality reducing system" that we might have we'd give up less shots, and you'd think a coach like Carlyle would be good enough to implement at least an average breakout. Maybe it's just not possible to have an average breakout because our defensive system puts us in bad position to breakout once we get the puck.

Maybe our bad breakout is a direct result of our good shot quality reducing system?

if that makes sense, it does in my head

 

[Canada4Gold]

if nothing is done to improve this team via a trade or coaching change within the next few days, we will be below .500 at the end of december. if we keep playing the way we do, we won't make the playoffs. we need to nip this in the bud now if we have any hopes of making the playoffs. this team is an embarrassment to watch. getting outshot every game isn't classified as a rough patch, its more a cry for help. seriously.

Leafs seem to play to the level of the competition a fair bit. I have a weird feeling that in this upcoming stretch we aren't going to do as bad as many are predicting.

We just need to get the damn breakout sorted out

 

[H1ne]

It really is clear that most people on this forum do not watch other teams.

Even the best of teams have the worst of games/weeks/months, and look terrible while doing it.

Leafs are 14-9-3, so no, they are not a .500 team.

The best teams do not take months off.
While we are not currently a .500 team (due to a 6-1 start), we have been for the past 20 games. That is not a playoff team. The best teams do not have a bad 25% of their season.

 

[Leafidelity]

The best teams do not take months off.
While we are not currently a .500 team (due to a 6-1 start), we have been for the past 20 games. That is not a playoff team. The best teams do not have a bad 25% of their season.

You know the Kings almost missed the playoffs the year they won the Cup, right?

League standings don't matter, getting in over 82 games with your playoff built team is the objective. Standings go out the window when things start to matter.

 

[Canada4Gold]

The best teams do not take months off.
While we are not currently a .500 team (due to a 6-1 start), we have been for the past 20 games. That is not a playoff team. The best teams do not have a bad 25% of their season.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=75069723&postcount=69

you're welcome. The last 5 full seasons the Cup champions have all had bad stretches of slightly below 20 games or so.

The 08-09 Penguins had a stretch of 27 games where they only got 23 points. That's 33% of the season.

To put that in perspective if our next 8 games we went 1-5-2 we would have the same 23 points in 27 games that the Penguins had that year.

Good teams do have bad stretches. The question is is this just a bad stretch or is it how we're going to be long term. That question has yet to be answered

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=75069723&postcount=69

you're welcome. The last 5 full seasons the Cup champions have all had bad stretches of slightly below 20 games or so.

The 08-09 Penguins had a stretch of 27 games where they only got 23 points. That's 33% of the season.

To put that in perspective if our next 8 games we went 1-5-2 we would have the same 23 points in 27 games that the Penguins had that year.

Good teams do have bad stretches. The question is is this just a bad stretch or is it how we're going to be long term. That question has yet to be answered

they made a coaching change to rectify that problem. bylsma took over for therrien.

second, having gone through this same problem with ron wilson three years ago, its better if we don't take the wait and see approach. whats the point of making a change after we're out of the playoff picture? like i said before we need to nip this in the bud now or we'll be screwed.

 

[Canada4Gold]

^Well what about we make a change and it was just a bad slump?

The Leafs did well last year under Carlyle. The Leafs did well for the first few games this year under Carlyle.

Now they go 8-8-3 in a 19 games stretch for a .500 point % and you want to fire the coach?

This fanbase is so damn fickle, it's friggin incredible.

The team is not going to fire it's coach over a .500 point % 19 game stretch. GM's don't fire their coach over a bad stretch that could possibly be a trend but we're not sure just yet.

Did you ever get fired because you might have did a bad job? No, people don't get fired because they might have done a bad job. When it becomes clear that Carlyle is doing a bad job the Leafs will can him. That won't happen because of the 1st bad 19 game stretch that Carlyle has as a coach.

If coaches were fired because their team only got 19 points in 19 games no coaches in the entire league would last much more than a year.

Fans are fickle, GM's aren't. There's a reason they're the GM and we're posting on an internet message board. Have a little patience.

If Carlyle proves he's a bad coach then and only then will he be fired, and it'll take a lot more than a 8-8-3 record over 19 games

 

[Wendigo]

Leafs fans have seen too many mid-season implosions to ever feel comfortable I can't blame anybody for getting nervous. Having said that, while we may not be loaded with elite talent, I think there's enough talent on this club that when desperation starts there's a good chance they'll finally punch the clock. They're pros, right? You and I think they ought to be punching the clock from day one. However, I think there's that inexperience that still prevails on this team. I was hoping Bolland would bring a kind of winning culture, but I don't think it translates sitting in the press box on IR.

They're better than .500 I think...I hope, or else we won't make the playoffs this season.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Well, all we can do is hope for a good game vs MTL and hopefully have a good enough month of December

 

[Ace88*]

don't want to derail the thread but a leader doesn't take game days off. The thing i hate about dion is that he is notorious for playing well when asking for a new contract !!

When i'm talking about leaders i'm talking about someone who takes responsability and show the way when everybody else is on a cold stretch

yeah that phaneuf boy ill tell ya all two of his contracts there he just decided to play well right before.

where do people come up with such utter nonsensical bs. honestly now. notorious for playing well when asking for a contract :

 

[egd27]

Last 74gms: 98pt pace
Last 26gms: 98pt pace
Last 15gms: 93pt pace
Last 7gms: 94pt pace

Who wudda thunk it?

 

[Raym11]

we were on a luck streak




the team is what we've been seeing game in and game out. Dont consider the wins or the losses, just what you've seen.



Answer: A Mess. we have talent, we're lacking at center, we have no structure, and we have questionable decision making by the coaching staff as well as plays with lack of effort.



that is what we have. Do i think were a bottom team? no because we have the talent to just win games we shouldnt (start of season) as well as alot of streaky players who could go on tears and win us games. We will be fighting for 7/8th and possibly from the outside looking in this year opposed to being the one seeded.