Prospect Info: Leafs 2017 1st Rd Pick (#17 OA) - Timothy Liljegren - 6'0" 188lbs RHD - Rogle BK

[Gallagbi]

no im just saying "bobs list is the best because its actual scouts" doesn't actually mean its true. The scouting agencies that make list you know they have scouted all the players, they need to be reputable to keep their sites ect running, bobs list of un named scouts could be anyone that has scout in their title, I mean it could actually be totally made up by McKenzie using other lists there is no accountability to it (no I don't think he does that).

In the end all lists should be used in conjunction with each other, I just don't really like the unnamed scout/source aspect of his list.

Anyway after your reply I am done with this. Back to Lijegren

I think you're working a little backwards. Bob's list is the best because it's the most accurate. It's the most accurate because it's a reflection of NHL scouts.

It's logical to look at various sources, hell I'm sure most scouts/teams take a peak at all the lists, but I wouldn't discount Bob's list because of biases that everyone has.

 

[zeke]

I mean, the draft order itself is never actually anything close to how the best players rank in the end.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Liljegren has already played in the SHL, which is the second hardest non-NHL league in the world (after the KHL), with an NHL of about 0.6. You really think he's best served by going to the OHL, which is literally half as challenging? He'd put up 100+ points, and not learn anything.

You have never folowed kids before they play in the NHL?

 

[egd27]

Liljegren has already played in the SHL, which is the second hardest non-NHL league in the world (after the KHL), with an NHLe of about 0.6. You really think he's best served by going to the OHL, which is literally half as challenging? He'd put up 100+ points, and not learn anything.

Like Marner in his +1 year.

 

[Mess]

Liljegren has already played in the SHL, which is the second hardest non-NHL league in the world (after the KHL), with an NHLe of about 0.6. You really think he's best served by going to the OHL, which is literally half as challenging? He'd put up 100+ points, and not learn anything.

Played?

Hunter in an interview this weekend said he flew to Sweden last year to scout Liljegren and in the game he watched Lil got 1 shift and 40 secs TOI/g the entire game.

Can't say that is good for development.

Also he struggled in the SHL and also got demoted to 2nd tier Allsvenskan and even lower U20 and U18 leagues, getting tossed around like a rag doll from league to league.

 

[Menzinger]

Though as a year older it would likely be the case his usage increases in the SHl.

I'm a fan of letting prospects develop where they're most comfortable. No need to bring him
over to an unfamiliar environment to play alongside teenagers.

 

[Walshy7]

Played?

Hunter in an interview this weekend said he flew to Sweden last year to scout Liljegren and in the game he watched Lil got 1 shift and 40 secs TOI/g the entire game.

Can't say that is good for development.

Also he struggled in the SHL and also got demoted to 2nd tier Allsvenskan and even lower U20 and U18 leagues, getting tossed around like a rag doll from league to league.

like Nylander? who did near identical thing in his draft year (not for the same reasons), He was sick and his team were in a relegation battle and couldn't trust him while he was trying to get back fitness

he also only played 1 playoff game for the U18 team I don't think he was demoted there just wanted to maybe keep playing hockey

 

[TheProspector]

like Nylander? who did near identical thing in his draft year (not for the same reasons), He was sick and his team were in a relegation battle and couldn't trust him while he was trying to get back fitness

he also only played 1 playoff game for the U18 team I don't think he was demoted there just wanted to maybe keep playing hockey

I wonder if the same girl infected him.

 

[Mr Hockey]

like Nylander? who did near identical thing in his draft year (not for the same reasons), He was sick and his team were in a relegation battle and couldn't trust him while he was trying to get back fitness

he also only played 1 playoff game for the U18 team I don't think he was demoted there just wanted to maybe keep playing hockey

Willie draft year

• 2013-2014 Allsvenskan Most Points by U18 Junior (27)
• J18 SM Gold Medal
• U18 WJC Best Forward
• U18 WJC Best Plus/Minus (+8)
• U18 WJC Most Assists (10)
• U18 WJC Most Points (16)
• U18 WJC Top 3 Player on Team

Timothy Liljegren draft year

• 2016-2017 J20 SuperElit Playoffs Most Assists by Defenseman (4)
  

 

[Jack Bauer]

Played?

Hunter in an interview this weekend said he flew to Sweden last year to scout Liljegren and in the game he watched Lil got 1 shift and 40 secs TOI/g the entire game.

Can't say that is good for development.

Also he struggled in the SHL and also got demoted to 2nd tier Allsvenskan and even lower U20 and U18 leagues, getting tossed around like a rag doll from league to league.

How often did he practice? What about off ice training plan?

Way more goes into pro hockey then playing in real games.

We regularly see 16yr olds sit a lot in the CHL vs going back to dominate midget. They get more out of increased ice time, increased time with better coaches, practicing with better players, etc. It's a package deal that goes beyond production at a lower level.

If dominating was the best form of development then put him in the lowest league possible to absolutely do his best and there should be no development issue....right?

 

[The Magic Man]

If I'm Lou I want him in a very particular situation. Somewhere with a coach we have influence on (London or Marlies) or a gentleman agreement that he will be playing and getting regular ice time. I don't see value in him sitting in Sweden.

 

[Territory]

I believe playing in the AHL next season (under complete control of the Leafs) will be best for his development.

Let Keefe control his ice time not someone un-affiliated with the Leafs who isn't looking out for his future.

 

[Morgs]

Liljegren has already played in the SHL, which is the second hardest non-NHL league in the world (after the KHL), with an NHLe of about 0.6. You really think he's best served by going to the OHL, which is literally half as challenging? He'd put up 100+ points, and not learn anything.

His confidence could sky rocket. Plus he'd be playing 10 minutes from me pretty much every Friday.

Gotta remember that last year was a wasted development year. Funny thing is his points were on par with some of the best Swedish defenseman in the NHL at 17, and those were fantastic seasons for them.

 

[zeke]

Willie draft year

• 2013-2014 Allsvenskan Most Points by U18 Junior (27)
• J18 SM Gold Medal
• U18 WJC Best Forward
• U18 WJC Best Plus/Minus (+8)
• U18 WJC Most Assists (10)
• U18 WJC Most Points (16)
• U18 WJC Top 3 Player on Team

Timothy Liljegren draft year

• 2016-2017 J20 SuperElit Playoffs Most Assists by Defenseman (4)
  

Draft Years

SHL

Nylander; 24gms, 1gls, 7pts
Liljegren: 19gms, 1gls, 5pts

Allsvenskan

Nylander: 35gms, 25gls, 27pts
Liljegren: 5gms, 0gls, 1pts

J20 Superelit

Nylander: 8gms, 3gls, 11pts
Liljegren: 15gms, 6gls, 12pts

J18 International

Nylander: 14gms, 12gls, 25pts
Liljegren: 17gms, 1gls, 10pts (assistant C)


I'd call those pretty similar years, especially factoring in the Mono effect.

 

[Walshy7]

Willie draft year

• 2013-2014 Allsvenskan Most Points by U18 Junior (27)
• J18 SM Gold Medal
• U18 WJC Best Forward
• U18 WJC Best Plus/Minus (+8)
• U18 WJC Most Assists (10)
• U18 WJC Most Points (16)
• U18 WJC Top 3 Player on Team

Timothy Liljegren draft year

• 2016-2017 J20 SuperElit Playoffs Most Assists by Defenseman (4)
  

those awards for Nylander are great.

16 yr old year:
SHL games
Liljegren 19
Nylander 0

im not trying to discredit nylander here either

My point was he also went from team to team. The kid was recovering from mono and went into a SHL club fighting for their SHL lives its no wonder he didn't get minutes, healthy liljegren and brannstrom likely wouldn't of got minutes maybe even dahlin would of been sitting on the bench.

 

[biotk]

Though as a year older it would likely be the case his usage increases in the SHl.

I'm a fan of letting prospects develop where they're most comfortable. No need to bring him
over to an unfamiliar environment to play alongside teenagers.

Who knows where he would be most comfortable? He might find being at home distracting. He might find it frustrating going back to a SHL team that gave him very little ice time last year. On the other hand he might love it. But, this is a player whose family moved when he was young to open more doors for his hockey development. I think he will be happiest going where the Leafs his development will be best. I have no idea where that will be.

 

[Mess]

If dominating was the best form of development then put him in the lowest league possible to absolutely do his best and there should be no development issue....right?

Well the CHL is the greatest supplier of NHL talent and over 50% of NHLers came through the CHL.

CHL @ ~ 50% verses the entire rest of World @ ~ 50%.

Why should fans think the CHL will harm development?

 

[Caesium]

Unless you're an NHL ready prospect you're not too good to play in the CHL. After a very disappointing season it's laughable to think Liljegren is 'too good' to play in the CHL in his D+1 year. Was Provorov too good for the CHL?

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Well the CHL is the greatest supplier of NHL talent and over 50% of NHLers came through the CHL.

CHL @ ~ 50% verses the entire rest of World @ ~ 50%.

Why should fans think the CHL will harm development?

He'll develop bad habits defensively if he skates circles around teenagers in the CHL. Why elongate his development by placing him in a lower league to dominate? He's already got the skill and offensive talent, he doesn't need to waste time in the CHL honing that. He needs to be challenged and learn when to use certain skills, such as when to skate with the puck or to dump it during a zone entry. Or learning how to clear the puck effectively under pressure. Play against men who are basically the size of the NHL players he will be facing and he can get stronger playing against them.

Rogle may not be the best option, I'd prefer a more stable Swedish team or the Marlies. But the CHL would be a major step backwards. 100% no to that plan.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

How often did he practice? What about off ice training plan?

Way more goes into pro hockey then playing in real games.

We regularly see 16yr olds sit a lot in the CHL vs going back to dominate midget. They get more out of increased ice time, increased time with better coaches, practicing with better players, etc. It's a package deal that goes beyond production at a lower level.

If dominating was the best form of development then put him in the lowest league possible to absolutely do his best and there should be no development issue....right?

Let me repeat Mess' message, 40 seconds TOI!

If that's all that he's gonna play but the training and practice is so important then they should bring him over to practice and train with the Leafs, only not play any games. Obviously being sarcastic. Training and practice is nothing like decision-making made in a real game.

 

[Mr Hockey]

He'll develop bad habits defensively if he skates circles around teenagers in the CHL. Why elongate his development by placing him in a lower league to dominate? He's already got the skill and offensive talent, he doesn't need to waste time in the CHL honing that. He needs to be challenged and learn when to use certain skills, such as when to skate with the puck or to dump it during a zone entry. Or learning how to clear the puck effectively under pressure. Play against men who are basically the size of the NHL players he will be facing and he can get stronger playing against them.

Rogle may not be the best option, I'd prefer a more stable Swedish team or the Marlies. But the CHL would be a major step backwards. 100% no to that plan.

Sergachyov and Juolevi played in the OHL in there draft+1 year, do you think Timothy Liljegren is a better prospect then both of them?

 

[Apotheosis]

Sergachyov and Juolevi played in the OHL in there draft+1 year, do you think Timothy Liljegren is a better prospect then both of them?

At the same age? Yes.

 

[The Thin White Duke]

Sergachyov and Juolevi played in the OHL in there draft+1 year, do you think Timothy Liljegren is a better prospect then both of them?

Whether he's a better prospect overall is irrelevant. He's a better skater than both by quite a bit.

He's a better skater than 99% of the OHL and already has a man's body. You don't need to play smart defense if you can skate back into position against a 5'10 170 pound kid reliably. Rielly looked good defensively in the WHL for the same reason, he could skate circles around 99% of the forwards he was facing. Then he got to the NHL and had to adjust hard to only being a little bit faster than 200+ pound forwards.

 

[Duke Silver]

I remember running the numbers a few years ago to see how many of the top-30 draftees were in the top-30 of Bobby Mac's, Craig Button's, FutureConsiderations', HockeyProspectus' draft lists and Bob's list was the most accurate. I think he went 27 or 28 for 30 in the first round.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Whether he's a better prospect overall is irrelevant. He's a better skater than both by quite a bit.

He's a better skater than 99% of the OHL and already has a man's body. You don't need to play smart defense if you can skate back into position against a 5'10 170 pound kid reliably. Rielly looked good defensively in the WHL for the same reason, he could skate circles around 99% of the forwards he was facing. Then he got to the NHL and had to adjust hard to only being a little bit faster than 200+ pound forwards.

Exactly. The only reason Serg and Juolevi played in junior is because they weren't eligible for the AHL and were not ready for the NHL.

Liljegren needs to learn the defensive game at the pro level .. That won't happen in junior.