Leading team in scoring by 50+ points

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Hockey Outsider, Dec 26, 2010.

  1. Hockey Outsider

    Hockey Outsider Registered User

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    This is a question based on a discussion on the main board. How many players have led their team in scoring by at least 50 points?

    Here's what we have so far:

    PlayerSeasonTeamMargin
    Doug Gilmour1993Toronto53
    Guy Lafleur1979Montreal52
    Joe Sakic1991Quebec50
    Mario Lemieux1986Pittsburgh58
    Mario Lemieux1988Pittsburgh89
    Mario Lemieux1989Pittsburgh84
    Paul Kariya1996Anaheim64
    Pavel Bure2001Florida55
    Steve Yzerman1989Detroit62
    Wayne Gretzky1981Edmonton89
    Wayne Gretzky1982Edmonton107
    Wayne Gretzky1983Edmonton90
    Wayne Gretzky1984Edmonton89
    Wayne Gretzky1985Edmonton73
    Wayne Gretzky1986Edmonton77
    Wayne Gretzky1987Edmonton75
    Wayne Gretzky1991Los Angeles72

    Close calls
    - Lemieux barely misses on a fourth season (in 1993 he led the Penguins by 49 points).
    - Ovechkin led the 2006 Capitals in scoring by 49 points.
    - Maruk led the 1982 Capitals in scoring by 49 points.

    It's stunning how much Gretzky dominates this list. These numbers are so unreal they almost seem made up.

    I thought Dionne would have done it, but his largest margin was 39 points in 1979.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
  2. revolverjgw

    revolverjgw Registered User

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    Yzerman in '89, 62 more than Gallant

    Lafleur in '79, 52 more than Shutt

    Ovechkin missed this by 1 point! 49 more than Zubrus in '06
     
  3. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    Thought Ovechkin might have done it early on, but he missed it by 1 point (106-57) in his rookie season.

    Edit: Just beaten to it.
     
  4. Hardyvan123

    Hardyvan123 [email protected]

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    It's not surprising to see Wayne on this list so many times for a couple of reasons.

    The 1st is obvious that he was the greatest point producer of all time and the 2nd is that he played in the highest scoring era ever as well which makes it easier to get the 50 point threshold.

    If the breakdown was % we would still see him on the list a lot because of his greatness but we would see other players as well and maybe more than 1 from post 96 but then again maybe not because the game has changed quite a bit as well (and it would depend on what % to signify what the 50 points used in this example was ).
     
  5. kmad

    kmad riot survivor

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    So close. Dennis Maruk leads the 1981-82 Caps in scoring by 49 points - he has 136 to Ryan Walter's 87.

    Guy Lafleur in 1978-79 - 129 pts; Steve Shutt in 2nd - 77 pts, difference of 52.
     
  6. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    A new point to use when someone says that Lafleur's stats were inflated (often relative to Dionne's) because of the team he played on.
     
  7. Hardyvan123

    Hardyvan123 [email protected]

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    Also as I have noted elsewhere Potvin leading his team in points by 4, 14, 3 and 8 points in his 1st 4 years in the league is a pretty impressive feat for a guy who played great 2 way D and was 20-23 years old during that stretch.
     
  8. Hockey Outsider

    Hockey Outsider Registered User

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    True - I agree that 50 points is an arbitrary number. Fifty points would be a larger percentage (and a more impressive feat) in a lower scoring era.

    Team strength is also an important consideration. It's harder to lead a good team in scoring by such a large margin. Bure leading the terrible '01 Panthers by 50+ points is less impressive than Lafleur leading a dynasty team by 50+ points (era considerations notwithstanding).

    I still maintain that Potvin had the best peak of any defenseman after Orr, including Bourque and Lidstrom.
     
  9. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    Checked the "bad teams" superstars of the 80s - Stastny, Hawerchuk, and Savard - and all of them came close at least once, but never quite hit the mark.
     
  10. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    I assume you mean of the guys you saw or are you including Harvey?

    It seems like many (most?) people on this board who actually saw Potvin play say this about him (I didn't see him play, except in a few video clips).
     
  11. Hockey Outsider

    Hockey Outsider Registered User

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    I said any defensemen after Orr, so that would exclude Harvey and Shore.

    For the record I didn't see Potvin's best years (aside from games on VCR later on) but I agree - it certainly seems like most people who actually saw Potvin live think he had a better peak than Bourque and Lidstrom. Taking everything into accounts (opinions of those of watched, stats, reputation, role on the team, playoff performances) I think you can make a solid case that he was the best of the three (though he'd rank last on an all-time list due to retiring relatively young).
     
  12. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    Aha, I interpreted "after Orr" to mean "other than Orr" as in "the best player in the league today after Crosby is...." Interesting linguistic twist for those of us who care about such things.

    True, and being fairly injury prone during the 2nd half of his career. To a lesser extent, he suffered from the Lindros/Forsberg thing of playing a style that led to quite a few injuries.
     
  13. Hardyvan123

    Hardyvan123 [email protected]

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    The 79 year was an aberration since Lemaire was injured and played in only 50 games but still scored 55 points in those games.

    Make no mistake Lafleur was the offensive force of those Habs teams but there was much more talent around him than Dionne ever enjoyed.

    This is important because the biggest difference often made between the 2 players is playoff success, which is more of a team situation rather than a strictly individual one.

    Not that playoff success should not be taken into consideration, especially for top performers on a team like Lafleur but more that others is worse team situations should not suffer in their evaluation as players like Dionne and Hawerchcuk to name 2 have suffered on these boards IMO.
     
  14. matnor

    matnor Registered User

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    The only one missing from the list would be Doug Gilmour in 92/93 who lead his team by 53 points. The list below should be all players who lead by at least 30 points (I assembled the list quite fast so I may have made some errors):

     
  15. matnor

    matnor Registered User

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    And here are the players with who had more than a 50% lead on the second scorer on the team:

     
  16. VanIslander

    VanIslander Don't waste my time

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    The 50-point lead calculus isn't just arbitrary, it's modern biased. In 1939 the top scorer (Toe Blake) only had 47 points! An equally arbitrary lesser number ought to have been applied to older eras.

    Nice to see matnor's percentage analysis chart. To give a clearer picture of earlier era, pre-modern expansion, here are the pre-1970s NHL players with who had more than a 50% lead on the second scorer on the team:


    One notices lots from early era NHL and not so many from the Original Six era, just Bathgate and Sullivan actually. Interesting. What do you make of it?
     
  17. Hockey Outsider

    Hockey Outsider Registered User

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    Thanks for the list! So we did a pretty good job putting the list together.

    Small sample sizes. The season lengths were quite short pre-Original Six era, so a hot streak by the team's leading scorer (and/or a cold streak by the team's next best scorer) could make a big impact on the percentage lead.

    A hot streak with even an extra 5-10 points might not be huge on a percentage basis over 82 games, but it could make a big difference when the season is only a few dozen games long.
     
  18. pappyline

    pappyline Registered User

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    Not sure why they are almost all from the early era. maybe because the top players got a lot more ice time.

    Regarding Sullivan in 54-55, Chicago really didn't have a top flight player until Litzenberger joined the team in december, was put on Sullivan's line & went on a roll. If you count litz's Hab stats the difference drops to about 20%. If Litz had been there the whole year he likely would have finished ahead of sullivan.

    Bathgate in 56-57 is interesting. Shows how valuable he was & how little depth that team had even though they made the playoffs.


    '
     
  19. Hardyvan123

    Hardyvan123 [email protected]

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    Small sample sizes so easier for small runs to appear larger and also lack of secondary assists being given out (less total points overall/goal) are the 2 most obvious that come to mind without looking at it too deeply.
     
  20. vadim sharifijanov

    vadim sharifijanov ugh

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    but lafleur had better teammates, which helped him be more better than them...
     
  21. lextune

    lextune I'm too old for this.

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    I saw most of Potvin's career.

    If we define peak as best single season; I have to go with Bourque in 89/90.
    I would, however, give the edge in prime, (best 3 or 4 year stretch), to Potvin.
     
  22. 100mph slapshot

    100mph slapshot Registered User

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    Kariya and Selanne both had 108 points in 95-96. Selanne was traded to Anaheim during the season.
     
  23. Dennis Bonvie

    Dennis Bonvie Registered User

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    This is a remarkable feat.

    Potvin pretty much played at an all-star level right out of junior. He was already built like a pro, not a kid.

    I saw him play an exhibition game in New Haven and he beat the crap out of some minor leaguer who apparently thought it would be a good idea to challenge the whiz kid.
     
  24. I Hate Chris Butler

    I Hate Chris Butler Backlund Fan Club

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    Selanne still only scored about 37 or so points in a Duck uniform that season though.
     
  25. seventieslord

    seventieslord Student Of The Game

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    I agree, I would look at it the same way for the purposes of this question.
     

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