Le retour des Nordiques Part XVIII: Ça Plane Pour Moi

[voyageur]

This doesn't make sense. They make Nashville poorer?

Quebec is probably a top 11-15 market. Nashville is below that line. So yes.

 

[Killion]

Quebec is probably a top 11-15 market. Nashville is below that line. So yes.

Broadcast wise, eyeballs, they'd be a lot higher..... so... ask yourself... can you take it with you?... NBC paying about 1/10th what Rogers pays... you paying for a bright sunshiny tomorrow when your DEAD? ... Tell me?... Whats wrong with this picture? Why should anyone care about future generations? What are you doing for me RIGHT. NOW?.

 

[AllezlesBleus]

I think the NHL knows Quebec will make money, lots of it...The problem is that they do not make money for Jacobs concessions. They make Nashville poorer, in the balance. Among others. Their purchasing power (merchandising) will guarantee a significant bump in the salary cap. NHL has too many mediocre markets, and those are more important than appeasing the passion of genuine hockey fans. Sad but true.

I really doubt that a Nordiques 2.0 team will make A LOT of money. Too many people thinks that Quebecers' lust for hockey will brings tons of money in Quebecor's pockets. I doubt it, seriously. Look at the Jets, they aren't losing money, but they are not making tons of it. Quebec is a small market with a low profit possible margin. Right now, with the can loonie low, the NHL might think twice before expanding it's canadian foothold. Especially since Canadians lost interest in NHL hockey with the absence of any canadian team in the playoffs.

Some myths about hockey and Canada must be debuncked.

1. We love hockey, but we love Canadian teams more than NHL hockey itself (like any sports markets).

2. That "love" doesn't guarantee the success of any canadian team (Saskatoon, Hamilton, Toronto-2, Quebec City, Halifax) over the Sunbelt.

3. We don't OWN hockey. It's an entertainment privately held by the NHL in North America and, as a business, they NHL MUST grow the interest in the sport in the US. They are facing strong competition with basketball, any college football team and the growing MLS.

4. Canadian teams aren't all prosperous adventures: the Flames, the Oilers, the Jets and the Nordiques all struggled in the past with financial difficulties. Don't forget that even tough le Colisée was "always" full, Marcel Aubut, former owner, said that the marketing team had to work double-time to find solutions to bring people from Bas-Saint-Laurent and Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean to fill the arena.

And please, no more "the south doesn't deserve the NHL and we, the north, do" kind of argument. It's pointless and childish.

Let's just continue to play the waiting game. Please Bettman, throw us a bone or something! I want the Nordiques back!

 

[GF]

More than you would apparently give us credit for.

QC will attract plenty of hockey fans, but you're not going to be making a lot of converts to the sport of hockey there - just satisfying existing demand.

Well I've actually been to a hockey game at Jobing arena between the Flames and Coyotes. I had never seen a pro arena that empty in my life. We bought tickets 16 rows behind the nets for 40$ a piece. I may not give you enough credit, but you maybe give yourself more than you should.

Any good company should sell as much as it can of its products yet build growth with new markets and products. Vegas + Quebec would do that.

Everybody thinks Quebec will support the NHL for ever. I'd say that the support will vastly diminish if the NHL keeps ignoring Quebec. At some point in time people will just move on to something else.

 

[AllezlesBleus]

Everybody thinks Quebec will support the NHL for ever. I'd say that the support will vastly diminish if the NHL keeps ignoring Quebec. At some point in time people will just move on to something else.

And what would that be, if I may? CFL? La Crosse? Can-am Baseball? AHL?

The sad reality is that the NHL has pro-hockey monopoly. People will just continue to do what they are already doing: following the Habs and/or any other NHL team.

The NHL knows that.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I really doubt that a Nordiques 2.0 team will make A LOT of money. Too many people thinks that Quebecers' lust for hockey will brings tons of money in Quebecor's pockets. I doubt it, seriously. Look at the Jets, they aren't losing money, but they are not making tons of it. Quebec is a small market with a low profit possible margin. Right now, with the can loonie low, the NHL might think twice before expanding it's canadian foothold. Especially since Canadians lost interest in NHL hockey with the absence of any canadian team in the playoffs.

Some myths about hockey and Canada must be debuncked.

1. We love hockey, but we love Canadian teams more than NHL hockey itself (like any sports markets).

2. That "love" doesn't guarantee the success of any canadian team (Saskatoon, Hamilton, Toronto-2, Quebec City, Halifax) over the Sunbelt.

3. We don't OWN hockey. It's an entertainment privately held by the NHL in North America and, as a business, they NHL MUST grow the interest in the sport in the US. They are facing strong competition with basketball, any college football team and the growing MLS.

4. Canadian teams aren't all prosperous adventures: the Flames, the Oilers, the Jets and the Nordiques all struggled in the past with financial difficulties. Don't forget that even tough le Colisée was "always" full, Marcel Aubut, former owner, said that the marketing team had to work double-time to find solutions to bring people from Bas-Saint-Laurent and Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean to fill the arena.

And please, no more "the south doesn't deserve the NHL and we, the north, do" kind of argument. It's pointless and childish.

Let's just continue to play the waiting game. Please Bettman, throw us a bone or something! I want the Nordiques back!

This is a great post, and it's for fans like you that I dearly hope QC gets the Nords back. There are great arguments for a new Nordiques team without having to go into myth-building.

Well I've actually been to a hockey game at Jobing arena between the Flames and Coyotes. I had never seen a pro arena that empty in my life. We bought tickets 16 rows behind the nets for 40$ a piece. I may not give you enough credit, but you maybe give yourself more than you should.

Great. You've been to one game, and so you are qualified to extrapolate that to a generalization?

During the bankruptcy in 2009, I went to one game in Glendale against the Predators that had 4,000 people at it. The team had no owner, Jim Balsillie was in court, and moving vans were parked on the lawn. So yes, we have in the past had bad games. I've also been at many more games that were standing-room-only (yes, in Arizona!) over the 11 years I've had season tickets.

My point is that Quebecois are infuriated (rightly) about people like Jeremy Jacobs making assumptions about how their team would survive if they got an expansion franchise. Turning around and using those tactics against other markets to make yourselves look better, though, is not the way to display the Halo Effect.

 

[AllezlesBleus]

This.

My point is that Quebecois are infuriated (rightly) about people like Jeremy Jacobs making assumptions about how their team would survive if they got an expansion franchise. Turning around and using those tactics against other markets to make yourselves look better, though, is not the way to display the Halo Effect.

Can you believe that some people around me are furious at Quebecor for not "trying hard enough" to get the Nordiques? Sorry people, but if Quebec is denied a team, it will be the NHL BoG's fault. No one else.

Again that stupid aura of silence around the process doesn't help the fans to cope with the fact that the team left 21 years ago. The wait is killing us.

 

[Killion]

... The wait is killing us.

No kidding. I share your angst. This is just crazy.

 

[GF]

This is a great post, and it's for fans like you that I dearly hope QC gets the Nords back. There are great arguments for a new Nordiques team without having to go into myth-building.



Great. You've been to one game, and so you are qualified to extrapolate that to a generalization?

During the bankruptcy in 2009, I went to one game in Glendale against the Predators that had 4,000 people at it. The team had no owner, Jim Balsillie was in court, and moving vans were parked on the lawn. So yes, we have in the past had bad games. I've also been at many more games that were standing-room-only (yes, in Arizona!) over the 11 years I've had season tickets.

My point is that Quebecois are infuriated (rightly) about people like Jeremy Jacobs making assumptions about how their team would survive if they got an expansion franchise. Turning around and using those tactics against other markets to make yourselves look better, though, is not the way to display the Halo Effect.

No need to argue. Coyotes have been last or very close to last in attendance forever. The fans are hardcore. There's just not enough of them.

And what would that be, if I may? CFL? La Crosse? Can-am Baseball? AHL?

The sad reality is that the NHL has pro-hockey monopoly. People will just continue to do what they are already doing: following the Habs and/or any other NHL team.

The NHL knows that.

The NHL knows nothing. They fronted money for a dying franchise in the desert. And now they don't have a place to play in 12 months.

I clearly feel people getting fed up. Many people around me are less and less interested in the NHL. People here on the forum suggested boycotting the stupid CH pre season game. One of these day Quebec will move on. Of course, the second they annouce a move to Qc people will come back. But in the meantime, I believe interest in the NHL will dwindle.

I don't think I've watched more than 5 games in the last 3 years. So yes you can spend your time on something other than the NHL.

 

[TheLegend]

No need to argue. Coyotes have been last or very close to last in attendance forever. The fans are hardcore. There's just not enough of them.

They were in the middle third of the league from the time they arrived in 1996 until the first ownership issues started coming out about 2001. I can bring up the numbers from HockeyDB if you like.

Bankruptcies, fear, and uncertainties about where they might even play, have an affect on attendance.

Besides.. the NHL isn't just built around the "hardcore fan" either. If that were the case they'd be a dead league now.

 

[Vdom999]

They were in the middle third of the league from the time they arrived in 1996 until the first ownership issues started coming out about 2001. I can bring up the numbers from HockeyDB if you like.

Attendance is irrelevant. What matters are the revenues and profits. The Coyotes have always lost money since 1996.

 

[zetajerk]

The Legend: "They were in the middle third of the league from the time they arrived in 1996 until the first ownership issues started coming out about 2001. I can bring up the numbers from HockeyDB if you like."

Attendance is irrelevant. What matters are the revenues and profits. The Coyotes have always lost money since 1996.

If we're going to play that game, bye bye Blues as well, then. The Hawks are also still in the red from their dark years (that apparently never happened). Hockey doesn't print cash in the north US either.

 

[BattleBorn]

Attendance is irrelevant. What matters are the revenues and profits. The Coyotes have always lost money since 1996.

Well then, we should move the Blues immediately.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

The Legend: "They were in the middle third of the league from the time they arrived in 1996 until the first ownership issues started coming out about 2001. I can bring up the numbers from HockeyDB if you like."

Attendance is irrelevant. What matters are the revenues and profits. The Coyotes have always lost money since 1996.

See, here's the thing. No matter what counterarguments there are, some people will be convinced forever that the Arizona Coyotes don't belong in the league.

This is a relevant observation because the same thing will also always be said about Quebec City by a certain faction. You can offer all the context you want about QC and it won't change their minds. What's worse is that part of this faction sits on the BoG.

 

[TheLegend]

If we're going to play that game, bye bye Blues as well, then. The Hawks are also still in the red from their dark years (that apparently never happened). Hockey doesn't print cash in the north US either.

Well then, we should move the Blues immediately.

See, here's the thing. No matter what counterarguments there are, some people will be convinced forever that the Arizona Coyotes don't belong in the league.

This is a relevant observation because the same thing will also always be said about Quebec City by a certain faction. You can offer all the context you want about QC and it won't change their minds. What's worse is that part of this faction sits on the BoG.

But then somehow or some way that will be our fault too.

Which is sad because many of us are also just as puzzled or dismayed as to why that faction on the BoG thinks that way.

 

[BattleBorn]

But then somehow or some way that will be our fault too.

You guys are always okay in my eyes.

 

[GF]

They were in the middle third of the league from the time they arrived in 1996 until the first ownership issues started coming out about 2001. I can bring up the numbers from HockeyDB if you like.

Bankruptcies, fear, and uncertainties about where they might even play, have an affect on attendance.

Besides.. the NHL isn't just built around the "hardcore fan" either. If that were the case they'd be a dead league now.

If you do bring them up I'd be curious to see the numbers. I've always had the feeling they never had good attendances. That the reason they moved to Glendale was because the downtown arena sucked and people were not showing up.

But the first point I was trying to break, is that people of Quebec will always support the NHL. This is true to a point. The people of Quebec are getting tired of jumping through hoops at the commish command and always end up with more promises and more hoop jumping.

But the NHL will do what it wants and right now, it wants LV and Seattle.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

I really doubt that a Nordiques 2.0 team will make A LOT of money. Too many people thinks that Quebecers' lust for hockey will brings tons of money in Quebecor's pockets. I doubt it, seriously. Look at the Jets, they aren't losing money, but they are not making tons of it. Quebec is a small market with a low profit possible margin. Right now, with the can loonie low, the NHL might think twice before expanding it's canadian foothold. Especially since Canadians lost interest in NHL hockey with the absence of any canadian team in the playoffs.

Some myths about hockey and Canada must be debuncked.

1. We love hockey, but we love Canadian teams more than NHL hockey itself (like any sports markets).

2. That "love" doesn't guarantee the success of any canadian team (Saskatoon, Hamilton, Toronto-2, Quebec City, Halifax) over the Sunbelt.

3. We don't OWN hockey. It's an entertainment privately held by the NHL in North America and, as a business, they NHL MUST grow the interest in the sport in the US. They are facing strong competition with basketball, any college football team and the growing MLS.

4. Canadian teams aren't all prosperous adventures: the Flames, the Oilers, the Jets and the Nordiques all struggled in the past with financial difficulties. Don't forget that even tough le Colisée was "always" full, Marcel Aubut, former owner, said that the marketing team had to work double-time to find solutions to bring people from Bas-Saint-Laurent and Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean to fill the arena.

And please, no more "the south doesn't deserve the NHL and we, the north, do" kind of argument. It's pointless and childish.

Let's just continue to play the waiting game. Please Bettman, throw us a bone or something! I want the Nordiques back!

This as a very well written post. Thank you for sharing

 

[zetajerk]

If you do bring them up I'd be curious to see the numbers. I've always had the feeling they never had good attendances. That the reason they moved to Glendale was because the downtown arena sucked and people were not showing up.

But the first point I was trying to break, is that people of Quebec will always support the NHL. This is true to a point. The people of Quebec are getting tired of jumping through hoops at the commish command and always end up with more promises and more hoop jumping.

But the NHL will do what it wants and right now, it wants LV and Seattle.

http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=7450

Disclaimer: any Yotes fans that see inaccuracies please step in and correct me.

You're going to see what you want to see, but I see a team with solid support especially with a crappy arena with a number of obstructed seats. Then around 2001 issues started becoming apparent with the lease that the team signed for the "privilege" of using the Suns building. The rent and lack of access to revenues was putting the team in the red and rumors of relocation to Portland were cropping up. Combined with a mediocre team, bad seats, this led to a slump in support. Then they moved to Glendale and you can see a three year stretch where they put up numbers that placed them in the middle of the league in butts in seats. And I've been told by fans who were there at the time that giveaways/discounts were near non-existant. Keep in mind that the team was terrible during this time thanks to Wayne and Co. The following couple years saw the quality of the team take a toll on the numbers, but nothing that is really alarm raising, considering the teams that you can see are below them (Washington, Chicago, St Louis, Nashville) that have since turned things around for themselves. THEN the bankruptcy happened during the worst possible time. I didn't know this place existed back then, but even the comments sections on THN were so full of vitriol and hate. I don't think anyone thought they were going to find owners where they were, residents of Arizona included. This matters to people who might want to invest in a sports team. Of course, these were the most successful on-ice seasons that the franchise has ever seen. Too bad everyone thought they were a goner. Still, the playoff games had an amazing atmosphere.

Now, they're owned by the Keystone cops who have done nothing beyond proselytize about how committed they are to Arizona whilst torching bridge between them and the only existing building they can play and realistically get a good deal. Even before the gongdale drama, everyone harped on and on about the 5 year out clause that would surely get used to get the team out of Arizona and into someplace colder where it belongs. And the team has been terrible/rebuilding since the Ice Clowns took over.

Again, 99% of people will look at those numbers and think "move now". Context only matters if its Hartford, QC, Minnesota, or Winnipeg.

 

[voyageur]

http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=7450

Disclaimer: any Yotes fans that see inaccuracies please step in and correct me.

You're going to see what you want to see, but I see a team with solid support especially with a crappy arena with a number of obstructed seats. Then around 2001 issues started becoming apparent with the lease that the team signed for the "privilege" of using the Suns building. The rent and lack of access to revenues was putting the team in the red and rumors of relocation to Portland were cropping up. Combined with a mediocre team, bad seats, this led to a slump in support. Then they moved to Glendale and you can see a three year stretch where they put up numbers that placed them in the middle of the league in butts in seats. And I've been told by fans who were there at the time that giveaways/discounts were near non-existant. Keep in mind that the team was terrible during this time thanks to Wayne and Co. The following couple years saw the quality of the team take a toll on the numbers, but nothing that is really alarm raising, considering the teams that you can see are below them (Washington, Chicago, St Louis, Nashville) that have since turned things around for themselves. THEN the bankruptcy happened during the worst possible time. I didn't know this place existed back then, but even the comments sections on THN were so full of vitriol and hate. I don't think anyone thought they were going to find owners where they were, residents of Arizona included. This matters to people who might want to invest in a sports team. Of course, these were the most successful on-ice seasons that the franchise has ever seen. Too bad everyone thought they were a goner. Still, the playoff games had an amazing atmosphere.

Now, they're owned by the Keystone cops who have done nothing beyond proselytize about how committed they are to Arizona whilst torching bridge between them and the only existing building they can play and realistically get a good deal. Even before the gongdale drama, everyone harped on and on about the 5 year out clause that would surely get used to get the team out of Arizona and into someplace colder where it belongs. And the team has been terrible/rebuilding since the Ice Clowns took over.

Again, 99% of people will look at those numbers and think "move now". Context only matters if its Hartford, QC, Minnesota, or Winnipeg.

Some of it is justified. My uncle was in Phoenix last year, said that tickets for a Coyotes game could be purchased at Mc Donald's for around $7. That harkens back to the Jets days when you could buy tickets from 7/11 for next to nothing. That's 30 years ago, when only Gretzky and Lemieux made $1 m million per year. Now your 4th line 5 goal scorer does.

So there's cost/interest. No doubt agree that the Yotes were a good show, and much more popular when playing downtown. When you had Roenick, Tkachuk, Doan, Claude Lemieux, and the Werewolf in London goal song. But nobody forced the Yotes to move to Glendale. They are the model of why suburban arenas, without access by public transportation are a terrible idea.

Reality is that even if they lost teams the fan base of Minnesota, Winnipeg, and Quebec have always been strong. The NHL knows that, T.V. ratings and non NHL events confirm this. So that is why they have their teams. The NHL needs Vegas and Seattle for their next TV contract. They do not need Phoenix which has never been a strong TV market for the sport.

How it plays out no one knows. I'd accept Arizona in the Central Division, I don't feel like the Yotes have any real rivals in the Pacific. At least the Central is mostly small markets all trying to dethrone the vaunted Chicago Blackhawks.

And i still resent that you own my team's history. Give it back, and maybe we'll be nicer. Dale Hawerchuk was a Jet superstar and his jersey belongs in Winnipeg's arena.

There are some good pieces on your team, but i am afraid losing Don Maloney will hurt, and the debacle of ownership is going to take its toll. Good ownership and management are the key to any franchise's stability regardless of the locale (except Toronto, Montreal, New York and L.A., maybe Philly too).

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Reality is that even if they lost teams the fan base of Minnesota, Winnipeg, and Quebec have always been strong. The NHL knows that, T.V. ratings and non NHL events confirm this. So that is why they have their teams. The NHL needs Vegas and Seattle for their next TV contract. They do not need Phoenix which has never been a strong TV market for the sport.

Quebec City doesn't have a team yet.

 

[BigMac1212]

So, how big the mobs if or when Quebec City doesn't get an expansion team?

 

[jason2020]

So, how big the mobs if or when Quebec City doesn't get an expansion team?

If they don't get a expansion team that will be a hint a current team is moving to QC.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

If they don't get a expansion team that will be a hint a current team is moving to QC.

Hummm, what about no. If QC doesn't get an expansion team, it will only mean that QC didn't get an expansion team. Nothing more, nothing less. We gave to stop trying reading between the lines.

 

[BattleBorn]

And here we go. Continue here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2081461