Laurentian Voyageurs get axed

[Aces89]

Saw this on a tweet then looked up an article. Both Laurentian teams and swimming got the axe as a part of restructuring of Laurentian. That Sudbury Sports Guy: A profound sadness for all that is lost | Sudbury Star

Click to read more...

 

[MiamiHockey]

Anyone recall why the Laurentian hockey programs got axed 20 years ago?

 

[SenSaddest]

not overly spiteful but glad to see that coach get axed... ill leave it at that

 

[JMCx4]

Anyone recall why the Laurentian hockey programs got axed 20 years ago?

From: Laurentian University: A History (via Google Books) ...

 

[MiamiHockey]

From: Laurentian University: A History (via Google Books) ...

View attachment 422436

Thanks!

Laurentian was really good in the mid-to-late '90s, with strong CHL talent ... but they've been much less successful in their return. This decision to cut hockey could not be less surprising to me.

 

[Hollywood3]

I often wonder how many 4 year programs will exist in 10 years. IMO university sports will have to consider eligibility changes so as to include affiliated 1 and 2 year colleges.

 

[Aces89]

They talk to Coach Duncanson here

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/laurentian-varsity-hockey-swim-teams-cut-1.5987852

 

[MiamiHockey]

I often wonder how many 4 year programs will exist in 10 years. IMO university sports will have to consider eligibility changes so as to include affiliated 1 and 2 year colleges.

To be clear, after a year-long global pandemic in which we've relied on scientists to save millions of lives, your hot take is that less university education is the way of the future?

 

[JMCx4]

To be clear, after a year-long global pandemic in which we've relied on scientists to save millions of lives, your hot take is that less university education is the way of the future?

When university sports medicine programs yield a cure for the next pandemic, your current objection might just be considered prescient.

 

[MiamiHockey]

When university sports medicine programs yield a cure for the next pandemic, your current objection might just be considered prescient.

What?

 

[JMCx4]

What?

How would @Hollywood3 's opinion that "university sports will have to consider eligibility changes so as to include affiliated 1 and 2 year colleges" for the long-term survival of Canadian university hockey programs influence the future of science education?

 

[MiamiHockey]

How would @Hollywood3 's opinion that "university sports will have to consider eligibility changes so as to include affiliated 1 and 2 year colleges" for the long-term survival of Canadian university hockey programs influence the future of science education?

In this thread, which is discussing the problems at Laurentian University (a 4-year university), his first words were "I often wonder how many 4 year programs will exist in 10 years" ... basically implying that there is a decline in demand for 4-year university education.

His next comment implied that USports would thus have to include trades colleges (1-2 year programs) due to this.

I am faculty at a top university in Canada. Demand for university education is increasing ... driven by increased demand for functional degrees with real-world applications (e.g., science, engineering, medicine, nursing, teaching, business) ... it's declining for humanities and social sciences (e.g., history, english, etc.).

If you look at Laurentian, their cuts were almost all in humanities, and only affected 10% of the student population.

Laurentian University Cuts 69 Programs | Inside Higher Ed

The notion that this is somehow reflective of a decline in demand for 4-year degrees is beyond ridiculous.

 

[JMCx4]

Thanks for clarifying your perspective.

 

[Hollywood3]

In this thread, which is discussing the problems at Laurentian University (a 4-year university), his first words were "I often wonder how many 4 year programs will exist in 10 years" ... basically implying that there is a decline in demand for 4-year university education.

His next comment implied that USports would thus have to include trades colleges (1-2 year programs) due to this.

I am faculty at a top university in Canada. Demand for university education is increasing ... driven by increased demand for functional degrees with real-world applications (e.g., science, engineering, medicine, nursing, teaching, business) ... it's declining for humanities and social sciences (e.g., history, english, etc.).

If you look at Laurentian, their cuts were almost all in humanities, and only affected 10% of the student population.

Laurentian University Cuts 69 Programs | Inside Higher Ed

The notion that this is somehow reflective of a decline in demand for 4-year degrees is beyond ridiculous.

Oddly, many of the programs you cite have ceased to be 4 year programs. Students spend 1 or 2 years to qualify for those. You also cite diminished options in the humanities. Great! Who needs 4 years at the BA level of gender studies?

 

[JMCx4]

... You also cite diminished options in the humanities. Great! Who needs 4 years at the BA level of gender studies?

These days, I'd need AT LEAST 4 years to sort all that out.

 

[Island Husky]

UPEI quite a few years ago, I think realizing the appeal to many of the cheaper and very credible technical and business programs offered at Holland College, combined ad developed n Accounting Coop Program. 2 years at HC, 2 years at UPEI. Seems to me there is similar combo in Computer Science. Either way, it would make sense to make the eligibility, the same as that already in place. So I think everybody has a point here.

 

[MiamiHockey]

UPEI quite a few years ago, I think realizing the appeal to many of the cheaper and very credible technical and business programs offered at Holland College, combined ad developed n Accounting Coop Program. 2 years at HC, 2 years at UPEI. Seems to me there is similar combo in Computer Science. Either way, it would make sense to make the eligibility, the same as that already in place. So I think everybody has a point here.

This is not unique. All Canadian universities will allow some transfer degrees from colleges, depending on the program. Manitoba, for example, allows Red River College students to transfer in and receive credit for some of their coursework, assuming that their GPA is high enough.

That does not change the fact that there is a MASSIVE difference between a 1-2 year college program and a 4 year degree from a university degree-granting institution.

This will be a complete non-starter for USports.

 

[Rob]

I wonder if Laurentian is the proverbial canary in the coal mine.

 

[Island Husky]

This is not unique. All Canadian universities will allow some transfer degrees from colleges, depending on the program. Manitoba, for example, allows Red River College students to transfer in and receive credit for some of their coursework, assuming that their GPA is high enough.

That does not change the fact that there is a MASSIVE difference between a 1-2 year college program and a 4 year degree from a university degree-granting institution.

This will be a complete non-starter for USports.

Didn't say it was

 

[Hollywood3]

This is not unique. All Canadian universities will allow some transfer degrees from colleges, depending on the program. Manitoba, for example, allows Red River College students to transfer in and receive credit for some of their coursework, assuming that their GPA is high enough.

That does not change the fact that there is a MASSIVE difference between a 1-2 year college program and a 4 year degree from a university degree-granting institution.

This will be a complete non-starter for USports.

There is also a massive difference between chemistry and English literature. But there's no reason why students of both couldn't play hockey together with an electrician.

 

[MiamiHockey]

There is also a massive difference between chemistry and English literature. But there's no reason why students of both couldn't play hockey together with an electrician.

They can play together in a rec league. The fact that you think this is a plausible route for USports makes me wonder if you've ever set foot in a university.

 

[AUS Fan]

They can play together in a rec league. The fact that you think this is a plausible route for USports makes me wonder if you've ever set foot in a university.

Dial it back a bit, Bro. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. This is a hockey forum with varying levels of "knowledge". All in good fun.....

 

[Hollywood3]

They can play together in a rec league. The fact that you think this is a plausible route for USports makes me wonder if you've ever set foot in a university.

Ha! I spent way too many years in university. The point is that not every player on a hockey team needs to be in a similar educational program. We derive our bias to 4-year programs from the NCAA. This does not exist in other countries. Even at the University of Manitoba there was a time when it had an agricultural college (on the site of the current main campus when that used to be way out of town surrounded by farm land), arts and sciences faculties downtown across from the legislature, and medicine at the Health Sciences Centre. "Varsity" teams included all those plus Wesley and Manitoba Colleges (which later merged to become United College and then the University of Winnipeg), and St. Paul's, St. John's, and University Colleges (the latter 3 are now on the main campus). Not all of these offered 4 year degrees. General Arts or Science degrees were 3 years, sometimes followed by 1 or 2 years to obtain specialization in another field or a master's degree. While each of these colleges had their own teams, the best players would play on the Varsity team. There exists no reason why we couldn't see more of this in the future.

 

[MiamiHockey]

Ha! I spent way too many years in university. The point is that not every player on a hockey team needs to be in a similar educational program. We derive our bias to 4-year programs from the NCAA. This does not exist in other countries. Even at the University of Manitoba there was a time when it had an agricultural college (on the site of the current main campus when that used to be way out of town surrounded by farm land), arts and sciences faculties downtown across from the legislature, and medicine at the Health Sciences Centre. "Varsity" teams included all those plus Wesley and Manitoba Colleges (which later merged to become United College and then the University of Winnipeg), and St. Paul's, St. John's, and University Colleges (the latter 3 are now on the main campus). Not all of these offered 4 year degrees. General Arts or Science degrees were 3 years, sometimes followed by 1 or 2 years to obtain specialization in another field or a master's degree. While each of these colleges had their own teams, the best players would play on the Varsity team. There exists no reason why we couldn't see more of this in the future.

You're confounding two issues here:
1) The history of university degrees
2) USports / CIS / CIAU eligibility

The former has absolutely NOTHING to do with the NCAA. University leadership (and I speak as faculty at a U13 university in Canada, currently sitting on a curriculum committee) could not possibly care less about sports. 90% of faculty barely know it exists. All they care about is setting - and maintaining - the academic standards to confer a degree. They quantify these standards with Credit Hours and GPAs. What you refer to as a "3 year degree" still exists ... it's simply a 90 Credit Hour degree. You can get one at Manitoba. Most programs are now 120 Credit Hours simply because the world is more sophisticated than it was 50 years ago ... as our requirements for knowledge increase, so do our standards for education. Our expectations for university graduates have increased, which is a good thing.

Though you might perceive a decrease in demand for university education based on Laurentian, the opposite is true: Demand for university education is increasing, even more so with the pandemic.

The latter issue (USports eligibility) is another matter entirely, but I'll give you the reason why USports won't allow 1-2 year colleges in: Competition. Why on earth would USports bring in trades colleges to the league(s), with their much lower entrance / academic standards? You might argue something about having more teams, better players ... but there is absolutely no incentive for USports to pursue that. USports is run by University Presidents (look at the Board of Directors), and I assure you that they have a very strong belief in the difference between universities and 1-2 year colleges.

 

[Hollywood3]

You're confounding two issues here:
1) The history of university degrees
2) USports / CIS / CIAU eligibility

The former has absolutely NOTHING to do with the NCAA. University leadership (and I speak as faculty at a U13 university in Canada, currently sitting on a curriculum committee) could not possibly care less about sports. 90% of faculty barely know it exists. All they care about is setting - and maintaining - the academic standards to confer a degree. They quantify these standards with Credit Hours and GPAs. What you refer to as a "3 year degree" still exists ... it's simply a 90 Credit Hour degree. You can get one at Manitoba. Most programs are now 120 Credit Hours simply because the world is more sophisticated than it was 50 years ago ... as our requirements for knowledge increase, so do our standards for education. Our expectations for university graduates have increased, which is a good thing.

Though you might perceive a decrease in demand for university education based on Laurentian, the opposite is true: Demand for university education is increasing, even more so with the pandemic.

The latter issue (USports eligibility) is another matter entirely, but I'll give you the reason why USports won't allow 1-2 year colleges in: Competition. Why on earth would USports bring in trades colleges to the league(s), with their much lower entrance / academic standards? You might argue something about having more teams, better players ... but there is absolutely no incentive for USports to pursue that. USports is run by University Presidents (look at the Board of Directors), and I assure you that they have a very strong belief in the difference between universities and 1-2 year colleges.

I would challenge your assertion about 'standards' in education, having read some of the garbelled nonsense they write. My high school LA teacher would have failed half these people for failed grammar alone. But more on point, university admins don't care about sports. I agree. So I would see them indifferent to sports teams which represent several colleges or universities.

The 2 year degree or diploma would accomplish a lot. It would help graduates of deficient high schools get up to speed. Those ready for the working world would do so. Those ready for serious studies for a professional degree would do so. Governments would save money on young people who are basically warehoused for 4 years in an extended adolescence. I believe that university admins will have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the new reality.

Note that Manitoba always had an AgDip program which fit this mould perfectly. It was education for farm boys.