Last Year's Avs vs this Year's Avs

[The Kingslayer]

Ehrhoff would've been suuuuuch a huge piece for this team.

too bad he wants to win tomorrow

 

[InjuredChoker]

growth of our younger players should make the roster better. but the moves we did, didn't make us better. the problem is that lot of other teams took fairly big steps. i'd say we're still good enough to make the playoffs though. non-playoff teams of last year didn't take that big steps.

edit. also depends on what kind of roles they have for certain players and what happens with ROR. just get that contract done, pls.

 

[AslanRH]

Since everyone is comparing this year's roster to last year's, are the Avs better this coming year or this past year? (on paper, not considering salary cap)

2013/2014 Colorado Avalanche (opening game line-up)

O'Reilly - Duchene - Downie
Landeskog - Stastny - Tanguay
McGinn - MacKinnon - Parenteau
McLeod - Mitchell - Bordeleau
Cliche

Hejda - Johnson
Benoit - Barrie
Sarich - Guenin
Holden - Hunwick

Varlamov
Giguerre

2014/2015 Colorado Avalanche (assuming O'Reilly and Barrie re-sign (RFAs))

O'Reilly - Duchene - Iginla
Landeskog - MacKinnon - Tanguay
McGinn - Mitchell - Briere
McLeod - Winchester - Talbot
Bordeleau

Hejda - Johnson
Stuart - Barrie
Holden - Guenin
Wilson - Redmond

Varlamov
Berra

defense = slight edge this season, but washed out by a shakier back up goal tender. I think Stuart will surprise everyone in that he is closer to Sarich than he is a #4

offense = 2013
looking at the lineups above without the hindsight of knowing PAP and Downie would have a down year.

This team is 2 top 6 injuries (Tanguay of course + someone else) away from everyone's favorite complaint: Mitchell in the top 6.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

defense = slight edge this season, but washed out by a shakier back up goal tender. I think Stuart will surprise everyone in that he is closer to Sarich than he is a #4

offense = 2013
looking at the lineups above without the hindsight of knowing PAP and Downie would have a down year.

This team is 2 top 6 injuries (Tanguay of course + someone else) away from everyone's favorite complaint: Mitchell in the top 6.

Jiggy was pretty bad in the last half of last season. We'll see what Berra can bring this time around considering he gets a training camp with the team and should have more gas in the tank then Jiggy.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

We did?




So Briere + Iginla offensively = PAP + Stastny?

Briere gives our bottom 6 more versatility offensively. Last year we were relying on Mitchell and McGinn when he was on that line for offense. Everyone else is more of the grinder, defense types. And it's not like PaP produced much more than Briere last year. PaP took a huge step backwards from the previous year. And considering the guys they were playing with I'm not ever sure you can say PaP is better because of his stats. It's a lot easier picking up points when playing with guys like Duchene, RoR and MacK than it is in a bottom 6 role, which Briere was apparently doing. I bet Briere's stats would have been a lot higher if he was in a top 6 role like PaP was most of the year.

Iginla is exactly what we need. We have been lacking that pure scorer who can fire shots in from anywhere on the ice. RoR is great in close, but he isn't exactly the type to sit in the circle waiting for one timers. Staz might have put up more points last year, though not much more, but I feel Iginla compliments our other players better with his style compared to Staz's style. We have others that can do the same things as Staz. We don't really have many Iginla types. Adding another pure scorer in favor of another playmaker, a playmaker who can't produce for himself no less, is a good trade off and should make the team more complete.

Plus, those are not the only differences. This Winchester guy if he jut has an ounce of offensive ability then that puts him head and shoulders above Cliche. That guy was pretty much worthless offensively. Pretty sad when the teams enforcers are more talented with the puck. Plus, Duchene and MacK should get better. MacK is obviously just scratching the surface. And I expect Duchene to turn into a much more confident scorer, something he seems to lose fairly easily. Tanguay probably won't miss the vast majority of the year. McGinn should become more consistent in his effort and focus as well.

 

[AvInNebr]

I think offensively we might see a bit more scoring from Iggy but Stastny's playmaking will be missed so we might see a slight improvement but it will be close.

Stuart I think slightly upgrades our top 6 defense but I think where our defense truly takes a hit is outside of the position. Our backup goalie is a step down it appears but even beyond that I think the loss of Stastny from a defensive standpoint is going to be VERY noticeable. He was the key cog on the line that shut down other team's top lines. Is Landy, MacKinnon, Iggy (or similar) going to be able to shut down other top lines and produce still? Starting from faceoffs all the way to defending in our own zone I think we took a step back with Stastny leaving...

 

[tigervixxxen]

We lost more straight up offensive skill but Iginla fits the team much better than trying to make Stastny/MacK work and paying more to make it work.

 

[CobraAcesS]

defense = slight edge this season, but washed out by a shakier back up goal tender. I think Stuart will surprise everyone in that he is closer to Sarich than he is a #4

offense = 2013
looking at the lineups above without the hindsight of knowing PAP and Downie would have a down year.

This team is 2 top 6 injuries (Tanguay of course + someone else) away from everyone's favorite complaint: Mitchell in the top 6.

You still have Briere and McGinn who would be in the top 6 before Mitchell, so you're two injuries to a center away, and three injuries to a winger away.

I'm also not convinced Mitchell is going to be the third center when we're healthy. Briere's natural position is at center, and he'd have McGinn & Talbot on his wings.

We'll see though

 

[henchman21]

The opening game lineup was significantly different after just 13 games. Downie was swapped for Talbot and Tangs was lost for nearly the year.

The team that the Avs won the division with is a better comparison between the two teams IMO:

ROR-Duchene-PAP/McGinn
Landy-Stastny-MacK
McGinn/McLeod-Mitchell-Talbot
McLeod/Malone-Cliche-Bordy
Malone

Hejda-EJ
Benoit-Holden
Guenin-Barrie

Varly
JSG

vs

ROR-Duchene-Iginla
Landy-MacK-Tangs
McGinn-Mitchell-Briere
McLeod-Winchester-Talbot
Cliche
Bordy

Hejda-EJ
Stuart-Barrie
Holden-Guenin/Redmond
Redmond/Guenin
Wilson
Elliott

Varly
Berra

Tangs being healthy is a huge difference. If he goes down the top 6 forwards are worse, but the bottom 6 is significantly better. The defense is better, but only marginally so.

 

[Thepoolmaster]

Offense is better because we have more options and more depth if someone goes down. If we lose two top six forwards I think we will see Hishon in the top 6 before Mitchell or Briere. Mcginn being the first person to move up.

I would like to see
Tanguay - Duchene - Iginla
Landeskog - ROR - Mackinnon

Although that first line isn't very good defensively it would make our second line extremely dangerous and able to keep the puck out of the net.

I think something to factor in as well is that without PAP on the point and substituting Stastny for Iginla the power play (which I will call offense) is much better. Iginla will actually shoot the puck...

The defense is slightly better for me. Barrie will play the whole year EJ continues to grow. Stuart is an upgrade on Benoit and Redmond is an upgrade on Guenin.

However, the loss of Stastny hurts the penalty kill, but I think Winchester will be better than Cliche in that regard.

 

[Miri]

for the offence you also have to factor in the growth of the young guys(Duchene/o'reilly/landeskog/barrie/mackinnon especially)

No, you dont. And if you insist, you got to equally assume further decline on the part of Briere and Iginla.

 

[Miri]

We lost more straight up offensive skill but Iginla fits the team much better than trying to make Stastny/MacK work and paying more to make it work.

Stastny and MacK proved to work pretty well together. What "trying to make it work" are you talking about.
Whether Iginla fits remains to be seen and at this point is no more than wishful thinking based on his reputation. He did not exactly fit in Pittsburgh, did he?

 

[umdieecke*]

O'Reilly, Duchene, Skog, Razor, and Barrie +1 year > losing Stastny.

And thats not even mentioning the flexibility that adding Iginla and Briere provides.

When you think of the series last year vs Minnesota the three biggest factors were:

1. Losing Barrie on the cheap shot from Cooke as the Avs had no one to move the puck after than on defense

2. Duchene being injured...the Avs were largely a one line team aside from a few moments of heroism from OReilly (That short handed steal and one on one goal is at the top of the list)

2. The huge drop off from the top 6 to the bottom 6. People think of the Avs for their high end forwards. Its completely appropriate. But the bottom six brought nothing to the table. Absolutely nothing...Huh!!!

 

[Miri]

O'Reilly, Duchene, Skog, Razor, and Barrie +1 year > losing Stastny.

And thats not even mentioning the flexibility that adding Iginla and Briere provides.

When you think of the series last year vs Minnesota the three biggest factors were:

1. Losing Barrie on the cheap shot from Cooke as the Avs had no one to move the puck after than on defense

2. Duchene being injured...the Avs were largely a one line team aside from a few moments of heroism from OReilly (That short handed steal and one on one goal is at the top of the list)

2. The huge drop off from the top 6 to the bottom 6. People think of the Avs for their high end forwards. Its completely appropriate. But the bottom six brought nothing to the table. Absolutely nothing...Huh!!!

Maybe if Duchene and Tanguay were healthy, it would have been different.

I am truly curious if Briere is going to be such a massive difference between that "useless" bottom six last year and this new one next year. Because thats the only difference, basically. There is Winchester OFC, but him we could have had anyway, without losing PAP or Staz.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Stastny and MacK proved to work pretty well together. What "trying to make it work" are you talking about.
Whether Iginla fits remains to be seen and at this point is no more than wishful thinking based on his reputation. He did not exactly fit in Pittsburgh, did he?

Yes they played well together and would have been a very nice line next year but I mean more in the sense you have two centers trying to find a way to make a line. Either you are holding MacKinnon back from his future at center or you are playing Stastny on the third line. Like I said for one year more is ok but nobody here could even figure out what the hell they were going to do with Stastny 3-4 years down the line. Now you don't have a center forced to play wing, you have an actual winger doing it.

 

[AslanRH]

I want to know why Briere + Iginla is adding so much more versatility?

does Iginla add another player who can play center when a top 6 Center goes down? Does Briere add a player who can fill in the top 6 at all?

Those thinking Hishon gets called up after 2 of the top 6 are out at the same time are forgetting how reticent Roy was in calling forwards up at all during the season. Hishon gets the call when 2 top 6 are out for a long time, and then Roy will probably still put McGinn + Mitchell/Briere in the top 6 before Hishon.

I don't see much more flexibility at all except for the inconvenience of having to pay 6.5m to Stastny (and maybe having to move him in a year or two which would not come as a surprise to either party) + <2m to a FA bottom 6 forward rather than hedge on the precious structure criteria implemented by the front office.

 

[AslanRH]

Yes they played well together and would have been a very nice line next year but I mean more in the sense you have two centers trying to find a way to make a line. Either you are holding MacKinnon back from his future at center or you are playing Stastny on the third line. Like I said for one year more is ok but nobody here could even figure out what the hell they were going to do with Stastny 3-4 years down the line. Now you don't have a center forced to play wing, you have an actual winger doing it.

but having 2 centers on the ROR - Duchene line is ok?

Anyone thinking Stastny would not be in demand 3-4 years down the line in the NHL has forgotten how many team are asking for centers in the trade forum every year.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I want to know why Briere + Iginla is adding so much more versatility?

does Iginla add another player who can play center when a top 6 Center goes down? Does Briere add a player who can fill in the top 6 at all?

Those thinking Hishon gets called up after 2 of the top 6 are out at the same time are forgetting how reticent Roy was in calling forwards up at all during the season. Hishon gets the call when 2 top 6 are out for a long time, and then Roy will probably still put McGinn + Mitchell/Briere in the top 6 before Hishon.

I don't see much more flexibility at all except for the inconvenience of having to pay 6.5m to Stastny (and maybe having to move him in a year or two which would not come as a surprise to either party) + <2m to a FA bottom 6 forward rather than hedge on the precious structure criteria implemented by the front office.

Briere brings offense to the bottom six, something PaP could not really do. He is also someone that can play C or wing, something PaP could not really do. He will allow us to mix and match and create various styles of lines at the bottom. As far as playing in the top6, could PaP really even do that this year? PaP is about the least versatile player there is. Can't play on a defensive line, can't play on an energy/checking line, can't play anything but RW, cant play in the Dzone. And to top it off he does not bring anything to the table that we do not have plenty of already. Every single one of our top 6 players are good playmakers and finishers.

Iginla makes our top 6 more complete. We had no pure goal scorer. And we lacked size and toughness. We lacked the ability to play in the tough areas. We had one style of play. Adding a guy like Iginla still allows use to push the puck when given the chance, but now we are in better shape to actual keep the puck and cycle it around in the offensive zone a little better. When teams play it safe and force us to play a slower game we will now be better at it. Having a guy like this allows use to adjust to the StL and Minny of the world. What's the need for another playmaking C? We have plenty of guys who can make good passes on the rush and finish around the net and play smart positional D.

 

[tigervixxxen]

but having 2 centers on the ROR - Duchene line is ok?

Anyone thinking Stastny would not be in demand 3-4 years down the line in the NHL has forgotten how many team are asking for centers in the trade forum every year.

Only so many can play center, the franchise cornerstones are the ones that need to. And if anyone was turned into a legit top line winger its O'Reilly.

Could they have signed Stastny now with the intention to trade him later, yes. But he knew it and the Avs knew it that its what it would have come to. That's probably one big reason why Stastny was never close to signing here.

 

[cgf]

If we're actually relying on Stuart as anything more than someone to rotate with Holden on the third pairing we're every bit as ****ed as last year on D, only with an old iggy on the top line and no staz to anchor our shutdown line. I think we'll be better offensively though with Barrie on the team from the start, everyone more comfortable together and a year older.

 

[AvalancheFan19]

Tanguay-Duchene-Iginla
Landeskog-O'Reilly-Mackinnon
McGinn-Brierre-Talbot
Mitchell-Winchester-McCleod

Hejda-Johnson
Stuart-Barie
Holden-Redmond

Better than last year IMO. I hope we try this.

 

[Hans Landaskog]

I don't think O'Reilly is going back to center. But who knows.

 

[Miri]

Yes they played well together and would have been a very nice line next year but I mean more in the sense you have two centers trying to find a way to make a line. Either you are holding MacKinnon back from his future at center or you are playing Stastny on the third line. Like I said for one year more is ok but nobody here could even figure out what the hell they were going to do with Stastny 3-4 years down the line. Now you don't have a center forced to play wing, you have an actual winger doing it.

But we already found a way to make a line, with Stastny at center and MacK on his wing. As if MacK being a winger was somehow a bad thing. He can be clearly pretty productive there, its not like with Duchene, who had tough time playing there.

Regarding figuring what to do with Stastny 4 years down the line...did he not just sign 4 years contract? Perhaps he would have done the same at Colorado, and maybe even for 6,5 instead of 7....

We may now have players playing in their prefered positions, but there is no guarantee that Iginla will fit as well as Stastny, nor that he wont slow down at age of 37. We basically swapped a player in his prime and proven chemistry he had with our other players for 37 years old winger earning just 1,5 mil less, one year less. Not to mention in case we wanted/needed Stastny would be still tradeable asset 2 years down the line, Iginla most likely not so much

I like Iginla and i was glad that we signed him, once Stastny was gone, but i am still not fan of the whole situation. Hopefully i will be proven wrong once the season starts.