Lafleurs Guy
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- Jul 20, 2007
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Lars Eller: Cult of Eller Edition
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JohnLennon
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I think Eller has performed best in the role he was given compared to all other centers on the team. It doesn't mean he can't have flaws. He has always had tunnel vision no matter who he plays with. I think his flaws are worth the price of admission, though, because he has been so good for us these playoffs.
Some of you are basically suggesting that Eller has been predisposed to NOT PASS to his linemates because he's used to having bad linemates. Is he a dog in training or a professional hockey player? If Eller is that unflexible with his game and is unable to adapt to new linemates, then how could he possibly deserve a bigger role on this team?
Some of you are basically suggesting that Eller has been predisposed to NOT PASS to his linemates because he's used to having bad linemates. Is he a dog in training or a professional hockey player? If Eller is that unflexible with his game and is unable to adapt to new linemates, then how could he possibly deserve a bigger role on this team?
Lafleurs Guy
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He's produced offense at the same rate at even strength that Pleks has. Both play well offensively and defensively. Both have also produced when forced to play in tough situations with bad linemates.
The way we've used him makes no sense whatsoever.
The idea that Eller does not pass, or will not pass, is quite frankly ******** anyways.
He makes a lot of very good passes.
He also spends a lot of time protecting the puck in the offensive zone.
He's a lot like PK subban in that regard, who just as often controls the puck in the offensive zone for a long time only to see nothing come of it.
End of the day, I'd rather have a "low IQ" (whatever the hell that nonsense means) big, strong 2 way centerman who kills it on possession than a "high IQ", small, below average 2 way centerman who gets killed on possession and doesn't even score more.
The argument has never been that Eller should be a top 6 center because he's amazing, the argument has been and will always be that he deserves a shot at it because he has a lot of good tools and the players being used in that role currently have been underperforming.
He makes a lot of very good passes.
He also spends a lot of time protecting the puck in the offensive zone.
He's a lot like PK subban in that regard, who just as often controls the puck in the offensive zone for a long time only to see nothing come of it.
End of the day, I'd rather have a "low IQ" (whatever the hell that nonsense means) big, strong 2 way centerman who kills it on possession than a "high IQ", small, below average 2 way centerman who gets killed on possession and doesn't even score more.
The argument has never been that Eller should be a top 6 center because he's amazing, the argument has been and will always be that he deserves a shot at it because he has a lot of good tools and the players being used in that role currently have been underperforming.
JohnLennon
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I agree completely. But it doesn't address the poor excuses people are making for his lack of vision. I don't think it's fair to ignore his flaws. He just might not have the offensive flexibility and creativity to be a top line player, but I do agree that he deserves better linemates. He's a second line center in my eyes.
Eller does make use of his linemates. I don't know who suggested that Eller doesn't pass to his linemates or has "tunnel vision" but he has been the playmaker on his line during the playoffs by creating scoring chances with his vision at times and his speed/size in other instances. Maybe when he has his slumps during the regular season he could be faulted for puck hogging, but when he is on his game, his vision is just fine.
MT should give Eller a bigger role right now as Eller is currently our best center so far in the playoffs. At least give him more offensive responsibilities.
WeThreeKings
Habs cup - its in the BAG
I think the transition needs to take place.. groom Galchenyuk as the 1st line center next season, put Eller in the 2nd line C role and reduce Plekanec responsibility to the 3rd line center.
This narrative about him havnig a "lack of vision" is false anyways.
Just something people say to justify prefering another less effective player in an offensive role over him.
"Obviously Eller doesn't deserve top 6 minutes! He has no vision!"
what bothers me is that Eller has shown he can up his game in the playoffs. So why is he still playing second fiddle to davey D and getting no PP time.
I'm getting to the poiint where i hope lars get's traded, then lights it up for his new team. We don't deserve to have him hanging around anymore. We clearly have no idea what we have in him.
I'm getting to the poiint where i hope lars get's traded, then lights it up for his new team. We don't deserve to have him hanging around anymore. We clearly have no idea what we have in him.
Agreed.
If Desharnais isn't dealt this Summer, I hope Eller is.
He deserves a team that will give him a real chance, instead of just gift wrapping quality linemates and PP time to players who haven't earned it.
If Desharnais isn't dealt this Summer, I hope Eller is.
He deserves a team that will give him a real chance, instead of just gift wrapping quality linemates and PP time to players who haven't earned it.
Eller has criticized the Oilers' system.
Lars is the son of coach Olaf Eller.
Makes you wonder if Eller ever said anything about our system and Therrien is holding it against him... lol. I'm not saying it happened, I'm saying MT plays favorites and holds grudges. Ryan White went from being a regular on the 4th to glued to the pressbox after tripping him at practice.
Bergevin knows what we have in him. He's said, and I'm paraphrasing "You have guys that get you through the regular season and guys that get you through the playoffs", that was in response to a question about Eller.
Eller is good at centre not at wing. Eller is a two way scoring centre that is good at controlling the puck, cycling and strong on the boards. Eller thrives with a playmaking winger or someone that can set him up.
Kostitsyn-Eller
Galchenyuk-Eller was also a good combo
Even Desharnais playing on Eller's wing worked.
Lars is the son of coach Olaf Eller.
Makes you wonder if Eller ever said anything about our system and Therrien is holding it against him... lol. I'm not saying it happened, I'm saying MT plays favorites and holds grudges. Ryan White went from being a regular on the 4th to glued to the pressbox after tripping him at practice.
Bergevin knows what we have in him. He's said, and I'm paraphrasing "You have guys that get you through the regular season and guys that get you through the playoffs", that was in response to a question about Eller.
Eller is good at centre not at wing. Eller is a two way scoring centre that is good at controlling the puck, cycling and strong on the boards. Eller thrives with a playmaking winger or someone that can set him up.
Kostitsyn-Eller
Galchenyuk-Eller was also a good combo
Even Desharnais playing on Eller's wing worked.
lamp9post
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- Jan 28, 2007
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I don't mind that idea, but who will play with Eller on the second line? Presumably this means DD is out. Do you bring PAP back? Unless we improve our scoring depth on the wing, Eller on the 2nd line will look a lot like Eller on the 3rd line.
Just for the sake of it:
Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Gallagher
XXXX - Eller - XXXX
De La Rose - Plekanek - DSP
Prust - Mitchell? - Weise
We really need a scoring prospect like Hudon or Andrighetto to step in and make an impact next year. Nice looking 3rd line though - if they can flesh out the 2nd around Eller it would look pretty good.
Winter Eclipse
Registered User
I love these posts! "I think Eller has performed best in the role he was given..." is such a transparent attempt at camouflaging yet another pro-DD argument.
"Eller can't ever be considered a challenger for a Top 6 role, but not because he's bad!! No, no, no!! Rather it's because he's so good as a bottom 6 player!! See?!?! I'm pro-Eller guys, as long as he knows his place and doesn't get all uppity about it"
So Eller does everything asked of him, to an excellent degree, and can't be promoted...because he did everything that was asked of him so well?!?! Laughable.
What utter nonsense. If Eller had turned any of his linemates into effective players, you'd be using his success at elevating them against him, just as you did in your first argument.
"Guys, Eller has had a great effect on making his linemates more effective, and you want to remove him?!?! He's preformed so well in that role, why would we change what's working?!!?!"
The bottom line is, Eller is subject to the same standards all the other players that may possibly replace DD are:
- If they succeed, why promote them, they're doing great in the role they've been given!! And don't forget, they have flaws!! They have flaws!!!
- If they fail, well harrumph, they need to earn promotions by first doing great in the role they've currently been given...I mean, look at all the flaws they have!!
It's ridiculously predictable.
JohnLennon
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- Mar 26, 2011
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In the end, it doesn't make sense to say that Eller doesn't pass as much as he should because he's been "conditioned" to do so. I think that's a stupid excuse and just makes Eller sound like a worse hockey player than he is.
I have to say that I do somewhat agree that he has a mild case of tunnel vision, but not as badly as some people describe it.
I agree with grooming Galchenyuk for top center and Eller for second line center. I think that is where they should be soon enough in their careers. The problem is that Plekanec is too good to be a third line center. The guy can still put up 60 points a season, so I don't see a chance that he's being passed by Eller on the second line anytime soon, especially with Therrien in charge.
I don't think Desharnais should be ahead of Eller on the depth chart, but I also think Eller should take a small amount of blame for his reputation of tunnel vision. It's there for a reason. He is more of a shoot-first center. Hence his 150 shots on goal, despite his limited ice time, and hence him having more goals than assists. I mean, you have to admit, the reputation has a bit of reason to it. But it's not as bad as people claim it is. But I think to pretend he has never been a bit of a tunnel vision player isn't being fair.
Eller deserves top 6 minutes 100%, and I think it should be at the expense of Desharnais. Despite his mild tunnel vision, he can still play with guys who pass the puck from the wing, like Alex Galchenyuk.
He didn't have "tunnel vision" in 2012-2013, nor when he played with Gallagher and Galchenyuk at the beginning of 2013-2014. Even last year's playoffs, he started dishing the puck way more often, picking up quite a few apples.
The tunnel vision narrative is overstated. I sometimes wonder if was invented to contrast Eller with DD...who's passing game suggests greater vision...and thus became an excuse to continue to keep each player in the roles they currently hold.
Also, even if he has "tunnel vision", he wouldn't be the first top 6 players to still produce offensively with it. Look at Gallagher and Plekanec, two other players that often get accused of no vision....it hasn't stopped them from producing as top 6 players. Again, it's a lame excuse to justify not giving Eller and extended look in the top 6.
The tunnel vision narrative is overstated. I sometimes wonder if was invented to contrast Eller with DD...who's passing game suggests greater vision...and thus became an excuse to continue to keep each player in the roles they currently hold.
Also, even if he has "tunnel vision", he wouldn't be the first top 6 players to still produce offensively with it. Look at Gallagher and Plekanec, two other players that often get accused of no vision....it hasn't stopped them from producing as top 6 players. Again, it's a lame excuse to justify not giving Eller and extended look in the top 6.
Lafleurs Guy
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There's no "lack of vision" with this guy. The only "lack of vision" on this team rests with the coach.
JohnLennon
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- Mar 26, 2011
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I love these posts! "I think Eller has performed best in the role he was given..." is such a transparent attempt at camouflaging yet another pro-DD argument.
"Eller can't ever be considered a challenger for a Top 6 role, but not because he's bad!! No, no, no!! Rather it's because he's so good as a bottom 6 player!! See?!?! I'm pro-Eller guys, as long as he knows his place and doesn't get all uppity about it"
So Eller does everything asked of him, to an excellent degree, and can't be promoted...because he did everything that was asked of him so well?!?! Laughable.
What utter nonsense. If Eller had turned any of his linemates into effective players, you'd be using his success at elevating them against him, just as you did in your first argument.
"Guys, Eller has had a great effect on making his linemates more effective, and you want to remove him?!?! He's preformed so well in that role, why would we change what's working?!!?!"
The bottom line is, Eller is subject to the same standards all the other players that may possibly replace DD are:
- If they succeed, why promote them, they're doing great in the role they've been given!! And don't forget, they have flaws!! They have flaws!!!
- If they fail, well harrumph, they need to earn promotions by first doing great in the role they've currently been given...I mean, look at all the flaws they have!!
It's ridiculously predictable.
Your post had absolutely no content. Your entire post was just you making assumptions for me and then attacking the conclusion you created for me. You're completely delusional. As you can plainly see from my other posts in this thread, I clearly state that Eller should be in the top 6 and that I think he can still play an effective role there, despite my opinion that he has mild tunnel vision.
Winter Eclipse
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Smokey Thompson
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Agreed that 3rd line is solid. Both of those wingers play very simple north south games, the perfect play style to complement Plek with.
As for 2nd line wingers, Scherbak should be able to crack the roster midway through next season. We still have Pap who can provide some offence if used correctly. Maybe one of Hudon, Ghetto, Thomas really stick next season?
I find this lack of vision thing overblown. He's not a great playmaker by any means, but he has enough other qualities to compensate and still be a very effective player.
The problem with Eller is consistency. The Eller we're seeing now is not the Eller we see throughout the season. If he could play like he is now for 82 games, then he would be a top player. Mind you he would also cost more than he currently does. At least, he plays his best hockey when the chips are down and in the end, that's what really matters.
I get that many would want to see him in a more offensive role. He does have nice offensive instincts and abilities. But I don't think the current role he's given should be diminished. In the offensive line/two-way line/shutdown line/grinder line model the habs like to employ by default, his role as the center carrying the shutdown line is very important. He seems to play more when we're in a more defensive mindset (such as when we're tied or leading). He's done an excellent job lately at preventing scoring chances, controlling the puck, getting it out, and providing the occasional secondary offensive chances.
Teams that lack fire power up front like the Habs need to have good two-way guys and shutdown players. Hab fans should be able to recognize the value of excellent shutdown players who can chip in offensively, we had arguably the best one of all time playing for us for many years in Carbonneau. I'd like to try Eller in a more offensive role too, and he has done enough to deserve a shot, but if he develops into a version of what Carbonneau was for us back in the day, that also helps the team tremendously and that's what really matters.
The problem with Eller is consistency. The Eller we're seeing now is not the Eller we see throughout the season. If he could play like he is now for 82 games, then he would be a top player. Mind you he would also cost more than he currently does. At least, he plays his best hockey when the chips are down and in the end, that's what really matters.
I get that many would want to see him in a more offensive role. He does have nice offensive instincts and abilities. But I don't think the current role he's given should be diminished. In the offensive line/two-way line/shutdown line/grinder line model the habs like to employ by default, his role as the center carrying the shutdown line is very important. He seems to play more when we're in a more defensive mindset (such as when we're tied or leading). He's done an excellent job lately at preventing scoring chances, controlling the puck, getting it out, and providing the occasional secondary offensive chances.
Teams that lack fire power up front like the Habs need to have good two-way guys and shutdown players. Hab fans should be able to recognize the value of excellent shutdown players who can chip in offensively, we had arguably the best one of all time playing for us for many years in Carbonneau. I'd like to try Eller in a more offensive role too, and he has done enough to deserve a shot, but if he develops into a version of what Carbonneau was for us back in the day, that also helps the team tremendously and that's what really matters.
JohnLennon
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I agree with this. In my opinion, he does have mild tunnel vision. But it doesn't mean he can't perform an offensive role better than others. I think it's clear from what we've seen these playoffs that he has shown better drive and compete-level than most other players on the team and deserves to be rewarded for that.
JohnLennon
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Yeah, Ivan Pavlov was a quack!!
In the other thread, you're the one that literally said he often has "offensive black holes that regularly destroy any play he sets up...he's essentially become conditioned to ignore his wingers."
Are we talking about a pet dog or are we talking about a professional hockey player? You're basically suggesting that Eller has been predisposed to NOT PASS to his linemates because he's used to having bad linemates. If Eller is that unflexible with his game and is unable to adapt to new linemates, then how could he possibly deserve a bigger role on this team? Do you even realize that you make Eller sound like a worse hockey player than he is?
From someone who seems to think everyone is making excuses based on some type of secret agenda, you're sure making a ton of excuses yourself.
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