Speculation: Lame Ducks

[Cosmix]

As long as sens are in the hunt still by Christmas I’d expect DJ to be extended. I don’t really care about the assistants, whatever DJ wants is good with me, unless Troy wants to come up as an assistant. He deserves that chance.

As for Pierre, frankly, with his many faults, I don’t think there’s anyone better who would be willing to work for Melnyk, so I’d have no problem with him being extended. Just pray he gets someone good to help with pro evaluation.

No need to rush to sign Dorion to another contract at this time. Same for DJ. I would prefer a new GM at the helm and give him the power to hire all those below him.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

It's pretty clear that the Manns are taking over.

How is this clear in any sense?

 

[BankStreetParade]

The fanbase has spent years dumping on Dorion while, at best, being on the fence about DJ. And now this thread. Strange times here, that's for sure.

 

[pzeeman]

The fanbase has spent years dumping on Dorion while, at best, being on the fence about DJ. And now this thread. Strange times here, that's for sure.

The question is rarely "should they?" It's usually "will they?"

My "will they" answer is yes on PD, "depends on his first 20 games" on DJ.

My "should they" answer is still a complete re-organization of the front office. Because the amateur/minor league pipeline for this team always has to be full - no five years collecting assets - I believe that there needs to be a two-headed monster for management - one NHL personel and contract focused and one AHL/amateur/drafting focused both at the same level on the org chart and both with the same pay, answering to a not-Melnyk POHO. In my scenario:

POHO: PD
NHL president: <someone with a quality track record>
AHL/amateur president: T Mann (not sure which is which)
HC: Smith XOR Capuano

 

[Adele Dazeem]

How is this clear in any sense?

Who just got extended? Who's name(s) have not been in the Ottawa media regarding extensions?
It's very likely Melnyk is just waiting a few months into the season to make this known.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Who just got extended? Who's name(s) have not been in the Ottawa media regarding extensions?
It's very likely Melnyk is just waiting a few months into the season to make this known.

Troy Mann didn’t have a contract for 21/22. That’s why he was just extended. DJ smith and co have another year left. Big difference and the two aren’t related. You’re reading something that isn’t there.

 

[aragorn]

I believe Troy Mann signed a two yr extension so I'm not sure why they would bring him up yet & instead let him continue to develop their prospects for the next two seasons. After that I imagine he will either be promoted or leave for another team that either pays him more or gives him a job at the NHL level.

 

[UglyPuckling]

Maybe he EM gives one year extensions for the GM and coach. That way he keeps his finger on them.

Hope for Ottawa's sake that if they go shopping for players like a center or d-man that they have better results than last offseason. EM may lose his patience if that happens again.

 

[Tuna99]

Maybe he EM gives one year extensions for the GM and coach. That way he keeps his finger on them.

Hope for Ottawa's sake that if they go shopping for players like a center or d-man that they have better results than last offseason. EM may lose his patience if that happens again.

Derek Stephan is getting sued for not delivering on his promise to be good

 

[Ice-Tray]

The Mann brothers won’t be taking over anytime soon in my opinion.

Before Troy would be handed the keys he will need to be groomed as an AGM by Dorion, and we would need to find a new head scout.

Same for Troy, he will need to start his NHL coaching career as an assistant to DJ. I believe that his second year of his deal was a promise to replace JC after his last year next season. Fits in nicely. Troy has said on record that he wants to be in the NHL but is fine waiting and earning it. This is what that looks like in my opinion. Great for both sides as we need him for one more year in Bellville.

If one day PD moves up to prez, and Troy as GM, it should be several years down the road. In my opinion DJ is doing a great job with the kids and has another year of focusing on growth before wins becomes the bottom line.

Solid progression next year should be all that’s needed. If fleshing out the front office with Trent has been a long term goal I’m happy with that. We need some more good people in the building to help Pierre.

 

[Micklebot]

The Mann brothers won’t be taking over anytime soon in my opinion.

Before Troy would be handed the keys he will need to be groomed as an AGM by Dorion, and we would need to find a new head scout.

Same for Troy, he will need to start his NHL coaching career as an assistant to DJ. I believe that his second year of his deal was a promise to replace JC after his last year next season. Fits in nicely. Troy has said on record that he wants to be in the NHL but is fine waiting and earning it. This is what that looks like in my opinion. Great for both sides as we need him for one more year in Bellville.

If one day PD moves up to prez, and Troy as GM, it should be several years down the road. In my opinion DJ is doing a great job with the kids and has another year of focusing on growth before wins becomes the bottom line.

Solid progression next year should be all that’s needed. If fleshing out the front office with Trent has been a long term goal I’m happy with that. We need some more good people in the building to help Pierre.

Agree about Trent can't see him going straight to GM, but it's not uncommon for coaches to start their NHL career as head coaches, Troy could easily start as a HC.

Boucher, Cooper, DeBoer, Cassidy, Keefe and Greene all started as HC in the NHL just to name a few.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Agree about Trent can't see him going straight to GM, but it's not uncommon for coaches to start their NHL career as head coaches, Troy could easily start as a HC.

Boucher, Cooper, DeBoer, Cassidy, Keefe and Greene all started as HC in the NHL just to name a few.

They could promote Trent Mann to an AGM role or Dir Hockey Ops role and have him maintain his Chief scout role to ensure we keep him around with the added bonus that he can help Dorion with some of the decision making.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Agree about Trent can't see him going straight to GM, but it's not uncommon for coaches to start their NHL career as head coaches, Troy could easily start as a HC.

Boucher, Cooper, DeBoer, Cassidy, Keefe and Greene all started as HC in the NHL just to name a few.

Sure, but I doubt that’s the plan here. I suspect that he’ll be promoted to AC after this up coming season.

Just pure speculation based on comments and circumstance.

 

[Cosmix]

The question is rarely "should they?" It's usually "will they?"

My "will they" answer is yes on PD, "depends on his first 20 games" on DJ.

My "should they" answer is still a complete re-organization of the front office. Because the amateur/minor league pipeline for this team always has to be full - no five years collecting assets - I believe that there needs to be a two-headed monster for management - one NHL personel and contract focused and one AHL/amateur/drafting focused both at the same level on the org chart and both with the same pay, answering to a not-Melnyk POHO. In my scenario:

POHO: PD
NHL president: <someone with a quality track record>
AHL/amateur president: T Mann (not sure which is which)
HC: Smith XOR Capuano

POHO - anyone except PD

 

[Samboni]

I think that, in this brief snap-shot of time, EM likes the direction that the team is going. The team ended the season on a high note so PD and DJ are safe for the time being. Things (EM’s mood) can change very quickly however and a shakeup could happen if the team fails to perform this fall.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the team stumbled out of the gate next season as the league will be going back to the traditional divisions and conferences which will take a bit of time getting used to.

 

[Cosmix]

As long as sens are in the hunt still by Christmas I’d expect DJ to be extended. I don’t really care about the assistants, whatever DJ wants is good with me, unless Troy wants to come up as an assistant. He deserves that chance.

As for Pierre, frankly, with his many faults, I don’t think there’s anyone better who would be willing to work for Melnyk, so I’d have no problem with him being extended. Just pray he gets someone good to help with pro evaluation.

I think many out-of-work former GMs and wannabes would jump at the chance to be an NHL GM in Ottawa rather than not be a GM next season.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The fanbase has spent years dumping on Dorion while, at best, being on the fence about DJ. And now this thread. Strange times here, that's for sure.

What's your issue with this thread?

 

[Cosmix]

Maybe he EM gives one year extensions for the GM and coach. That way he keeps his finger on them.

Hope for Ottawa's sake that if they go shopping for players like a center or d-man that they have better results than last offseason. EM may lose his patience if that happens again.

At this time there is no need to extend Dorion as Gm nor DJ as head coach, nor any other coaches if their contracts have not expired. I would rather replace Dorion with someone else but I suspect Melnyk will wait a while before addressing the issue.

 

[UglyPuckling]

At this time there is no need to extend Dorion as Gm nor DJ as head coach, nor any other coaches if their contracts have not expired. I would rather replace Dorion with someone else but I suspect Melnyk will wait a while before addressing the issue.

True. I wasn't really looking at the timing, just making a more general statement.

 

[SensHulk]

I think we have discussed this on a few occasions but it often feels like another GM and coach have to come in after the start of a rebuild and take the team to another level. So it makes sense that we have both lame duck GM/coaches, my guess is Melnyk is actively looking for the right candidate (as much as ppl think Dorion has earned an extension, there are enough questionable moves to justify letting him go). The problem is I can’t see any experienced GM coming into the fold to work for Melnyk so maybe Dorion will get extended.

For coach, I’m positive we’re going the route of another rookie coach and I’m certain it’s gonna be Troy Mann. Will be very interesting to see how things shake out

 

[Cosmix]

I think we have discussed this on a few occasions but it often feels like another GM and coach have to come in after the start of a rebuild and take the team to another level. So it makes sense that we have both lame duck GM/coaches, my guess is Melnyk is actively looking for the right candidate (as much as ppl think Dorion has earned an extension, there are enough questionable moves to justify letting him go). The problem is I can’t see any experienced GM coming into the fold to work for Melnyk so maybe Dorion will get extended.

For coach, I’m positive we’re going the route of another rookie coach and I’m certain it’s gonna be Troy Mann. Will be very interesting to see how things shake out

What I think the team should do and what Melnyk does are most likely two different things.

All I know, based on the past 10 years or so, is that the GM always blames the coaches for poor performance and fires them, bringing in other sacrificial lambs to fire the next time that his draft picks, traded for players and UFA signings do not perform up to his glowing fawning predictions.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Most of you forget how bad our other GM’s have been in terms of trades, and how all GMs have made bad moves around the league. No one is batting 100, and some are soooo much worse than our GM.

PD has built something awesome here so far, people making a mountain out of Stepan aren’t changing that.

I believe that he has earned the right to see his vision through.

 

[SensHulk]

Most of you forget how bad our other GM’s have been in terms of trades, and how all GMs have made bad moves around the league. No one is batting 100, and some are soooo much worse than our GM.

PD has built something awesome here so far, people making a mountain out of Stepan aren’t changing that.

I believe that he has earned the right to see his vision through.

You’re not wrong but I always say Melnyk is a wild card, he’s the one who fired Muckler after getting to the cup finals. Say whatever you want about Mucks, but there’s an argument you could make to still retain him after getting his team to the cup finals. If it was truly something like not getting Gary Roberts, then how can we be certain of PD getting retained when he has to answer for blunders that cost Melnyk money. I’m thinking the Matt Murray deal is weighing heavy on the euge, he made a point to mention it in that radio hit with bob mccown

It’s also entirely possible that Melnyk extends PD and this is all part of a hard negotiation between the two. I remember Bryan Murray getting extended as GM just shortly before his contract was to expire at the end of 2011 season so it’s not out of the realm that they let PD work without an extension

 

[Cosmix]

I believe Troy Mann signed a two yr extension so I'm not sure why they would bring him up yet & instead let him continue to develop their prospects for the next two seasons. After that I imagine he will either be promoted or leave for another team that either pays him more or gives him a job at the NHL level.

Troy was born in 1969 so he is 52. His next job after Belleville will likely be as an Assistant Coach in the NHL. Perhaps when Capuano leaves or another opening occurs.