Laine's and Connor's contracts

[Hunter368]

He was not. His GAR was even with Mathews. While a different player his contributions to winning was the same. Too much style over substance going on here.

I brought up Marner because he also allegedly wants Mathews money after only performing at an all world level after being placed next to a top 5 C in the league.

Be honest if you were representing Laine would you be letting his down year influence your negotiating position on a long term deal or would you be focussing on his first two years where he performed at an elite level?

I know that if I were his agent im only accepting a long term deal if he compensates my client for what we believe is and will be (An elite winger in the league) if the org doesn't want to take that chance then I will advise my client to sign a 1 or 2 year deal with some assurances that if he earns it he will get the opportubity to play with Scheifele.

His position isn't that ridiculous if you believe what we saw the first two years is indicative of what we will see going forward.

Of course I would throw whatever I could at the wall and see if it sticks.......of course my GM would say no that’s not happening b/c you aren’t as good plus your a winger. We will see what he gets but if he got the exact AM deal that would be horrible for the team and the chances of him living up to it are slim.

 

[Hunter368]

Those gosh darn uppity kids ruining my lawn! Is what I read from that.

As someone said, style over substance, big time. Totally subjective, arguments from feelings. And the request earlier for some poster to explain if they were of finnish heritage, what was that about? Are Finns now somehow the only ones incapable of excluding bias from their views? Everyone can see the misuse, it's agreed on by many Finns and Canadians alike.

As most of this has already been corrected with stats and what not, I won't get into that.

Weird literally nothing was corrected, b/c it’s an opinion which is what the poster asked for.

One poster said why does he get negative comments so I gave him a long list......I gave him what he asked for. Of course some of them are subjective......duh. Some are facts as to what he said and then people can judge from that. He asked and I gave him what he asked for.....never did I say I speak for others.

 

[Hunter368]

If people don’t like to hear opinions reading/posting on a public forum is a bad idea. I was asked why and I posted why. People want to disagree fine, doesn’t matter to me. Hang a Laine poster in your room for all I care. All I care about is the team, not Laine specifically. If one player helps the team overall, including contract, then great......which is what I’ve stated multi times. I don’t have to like a player to want to have him on my team......like I said trade or sign him I don’t care just don’t overpay him.

 

[Eyeseeing]

If people don’t like to hear opinions reading/posting on a public forum is a bad idea. I was asked why and I posted why. People want to disagree fine, doesn’t matter to me. Hang a Laine poster in your room for all I care. All I care about is the team, not Laine specifically. If one player helps the team overall, including contract, then great......which is what I’ve stated multi times. I don’t have to like a player to want to have him on my team......like I said trade or sign him I don’t care just don’t overpay him.

I believe a bridge is in everyone’s best interest.
A low ball offer is as bad as an overpayment.
Only the involved parties know for sure.
This is a case where Cheveldayoff could win the battle but lose the war.

 

[Hunter368]

I believe a bridge is in everyone’s best interest.
A low ball offer is as bad as an overpayment.
Only the involved parties know for sure.
This is a case where Cheveldayoff could win the battle but lose the war.

Bridge imo is ideal for all, I agree. We haven’t heard anything confirmed on any demands or offers......overpaying is horrible.

 

[oldunclehue]

I am one to side with Hunter368, do I think Laine could be a generational "scorer" yes, but it todays game you can't just score goals and take the rest of the game off. We saw bits and pieces in playoffs of what he can do this year. If he can bring that game in and game out then his value will be tremendous. But he hasn't done that this season.

I tend to stay away from the media/interviews etc because we don't get an actual feel to the player etc. But Laine does not seem keen on staying with the Jets IMO, and to be honest if I was a young talented player in the NHL I likely wouldn't either. The year was riddled with issues and very apparent the dressing room had a divide.

I think a bridge deal at the lower end...8 million with performance bonuses would be a good fit. He can earn more while proving himself and then get a huge ticket afterwards. If he has two meh years like last year, then the Jets know he's not the guy to build a team around.

Connor needs to be long term and him, Sheifs, Morrissey and Helle are what we build around in the future.

 

[surixon]

I am one to side with Hunter368, do I think Laine could be a generational "scorer" yes, but it todays game you can't just score goals and take the rest of the game off. We saw bits and pieces in playoffs of what he can do this year. If he can bring that game in and game out then his value will be tremendous. But he hasn't done that this season.

I tend to stay away from the media/interviews etc because we don't get an actual feel to the player etc. But Laine does not seem keen on staying with the Jets IMO, and to be honest if I was a young talented player in the NHL I likely wouldn't either. The year was riddled with issues and very apparent the dressing room had a divide.

I think a bridge deal at the lower end...8 million with performance bonuses would be a good fit. He can earn more while proving himself and then get a huge ticket afterwards. If he has two meh years like last year, then the Jets know he's not the guy to build a team around.

Connor needs to be long term and him, Sheifs, Morrissey and Helle are what we build around in the future.

Contracts can't have performance bonuses in them unless it's an elc, or the player is over 35(i think) years old.

 

[cheswick]

Anyone find it odd that Connor is listed on the roster but Laine isn't....

 

[Buffdog]

Here's another fact. Laine played 17:55 minutes per game in his rookie season. That's over half a minute more than in his third NHL season. Now how the heck does that even begin to make sense? I'll tell you how, cause the prime minutes are reserved for the 1st line forwards while the scraps are divided between the rest . Which means if you want to get the prime points and show up in the www.nhl.com player page you have to be in that top 3 in a team run by a coach like Maurice who doesn't know how to take advantage over depth nor run multiple scoring lines. Also in what world is it even possible that a third year player plays less minutes than in his 18 year old rookie season? That's just absurd. Let alone when dealing with a talent like Laine.



Well this isn't a poll now is it. It's no accident he lead the league in PP goals in 17-18. He obviously didn't do as well the next time around, but he sure didn't play in both units either (which is probably how many if not most other teams had used him).



That's right you wouldn't, because you would take up the offer and smile while you were doing it. Save the trouble of having to explain how you're unlike the 99,99% of the other people. And no, your ex-colleagues, friends and whoever would not call you prima donna when you did it, had you earned it.



The 18 goal streak had literally little to do with Little. It was his chemistry with Connor that made it happen. Connor isn't even an elite winger just yet, but at least for once he got to play with someone who had offensive talent and vision, even for just a short time span. Another avenue left thoroughly unexplored by Maurice who jumped the first possible chance to fix his precious first line problems leaving Laine again alone with Little and well Ehlers, who's not really a great fit in the line either. You managed to find one short stint of the two actually producing in their two season long period of engagement, nice.

Good grief, the ELL has never worked, ever. That is absolutely the last line they should have even considered to assemble. But not only did they manage to do exactly that, this magnificent coach of ours actually uses the same inefficient line in the frigging playoffs despite having nothing but data of one failure to another. I could barely believe my own eyes when I saw them together in the first playoff game last year. Stupidity at it's finest and purest form.



The reasons why he struggled where largely mental ones, disinterested, lost confidence, lost consistency, the whole nine yards that pools down from 2-3 year misutilization. Of course he had the back issues on top of everything which didn't help.

Well I suppose good for you having hopes up, and I do agree on him wanting to have a good year, but whether it happens here or somewhere else is the question. Which is probably means he's looking in for a one year deal if there's no external offer sheet, so he can regain his value and have more options next year the same time. This is one possible scenario. Should be interesting to see what happens.

So based on your numbers and a 45 second average shift length:

Rookie season 23.9 shifts per game
Last year: 23.2 shifts per game

That .7 shift per game less is for sure why he's unhappy *eyeroll*

 

[Rheged]

Anyone find it odd that Connor is listed on the roster but Laine isn't....

Nah, these lists are always weird around this time of year.

 

[Eyeseeing]

I don't think we'll see eye to eye on this issue so no use debating it further. I think we both hope he will be here long term, at least I do. And for the record, I don't think he's a big sulk, I just objected to your portraying him as such (whether you intended to or not).

I will say, though, that based on the culture of the NHL, if Laine truly did say he's not playing if he has to play with Little again, he would be viewed as a giant pain in the ass in an NHL locker room. That culture might be different in other industries, but he would definitely be looked at that way in the NHL.

But it’s ok for Scheifele and Wheeler to say they don’t want to play with Laine?
The problem is and likely will be Maurice’s hands off approach to the vets who apparently don’t need coaching.
Apparently standards are different here as well.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Bridge imo is ideal for all, I agree. We haven’t heard anything confirmed on any demands or offers......overpaying is horrible.

So is low balling because Laine would be as good as gone at the earliest opportunity and if he does perform as many expect that’s not going to go over well in a city where Cheveldayoff is already handcuffed attracting free agents according to many.

 

[Hunter368]

I am one to side with Hunter368, do I think Laine could be a generational "scorer" yes, but it todays game you can't just score goals and take the rest of the game off. We saw bits and pieces in playoffs of what he can do this year. If he can bring that game in and game out then his value will be tremendous. But he hasn't done that this season.

I tend to stay away from the media/interviews etc because we don't get an actual feel to the player etc. But Laine does not seem keen on staying with the Jets IMO, and to be honest if I was a young talented player in the NHL I likely wouldn't either. The year was riddled with issues and very apparent the dressing room had a divide.

I think a bridge deal at the lower end...8 million with performance bonuses would be a good fit. He can earn more while proving himself and then get a huge ticket afterwards. If he has two meh years like last year, then the Jets know he's not the guy to build a team around.

Connor needs to be long term and him, Sheifs, Morrissey and Helle are what we build around in the future.

Again there no sides IMO.......there is or should be only one side.......the Jets team. I don’t care overly for any individual player, I’m not saying I don’t like them.....I just don’t care about individuals. This is a team sport, we all should be hoping for what’s best for the team not individuals.....but that’s just my opinion.

The main two things that annoy me about Laine is certain fans of his deflect all or most responsibility from Laine onto someone else.....either line mates or coach or management, etc instead of owning that he is responsible for most of the things he needs to improve. Second thing that annoys me is Laine’s comments at the end of the season......his direct comment when asked if he has anything else to prove to get a long term (big) contract and his answer was no he’s proven enough already. After all the holes in his game for him to say that is mind blowing to me.......literally everything about his game needs to significantly improve outside his shot itself. Now I’m fine with comments about he’s young still developing etc.....ok cool then his contract should reflect that as either lower cap hit long term or a short term bridge.

 

[Hunter368]

So is low balling because Laine would be as good as gone at the earliest opportunity and if he does perform as many expect that’s not going to go over well in a city where Cheveldayoff is already handcuffed attracting free agents according to many.

Again those are different time lines we’re talking about. I’m saying if he gets a contract that’s an overpayment long term that’s horrible. If we get him like a Mark S deal that has turned into a underpayment that’s good for the team if long term. Short term low ball deal isnt great, for reasons you stated.......but I’ve only stated overpayment long term......I actually stated over paying on a bridge is ok.

Handcuffed attracting free agents how? Not more tinfoil hats is it?

 

[jepjepjoo]

So based on your numbers and a 45 second average shift length:

Rookie season 23.9 shifts per game
Last year: 23.2 shifts per game

That .7 shift per game less is for sure why he's unhappy *eyeroll*

Here are the actual numbers:

16-17 22.4 shifts per game
17-18 20.3 shifts per game
18-19 19.8 shifts per game

 

[Eyeseeing]

Again those are different time lines we’re talking about. I’m saying if he gets a contract that’s an overpayment long term that’s horrible. If we get him like a Mark S deal that has turned into a underpayment that’s good for the team if long term. Short term low ball deal isnt great, for reasons you stated.......but I’ve only stated overpayment long term......I actually stated over paying on a bridge is ok.

Handcuffed attracting free agents how? Not more tinfoil hats is it?

I didn’t say that personally I thought that was the case I said many think Cheveldayoff is handcuffed in the free agent situation.
I’m with you on the bridge, I didn’t realize you were O.K. chucking some extra bucks on that scenario.
So actually I agree with you.

 

[Hunter368]

I didn’t say that personally I thought that was the case I said many think Cheveldayoff is handcuffed in the free agent situation.
I’m with you on the bridge, I didn’t realize you were O.K. chucking some extra bucks on that scenario.
So actually I agree with you.

Again the Laine subject seems to be polarizing subject......personally it’s not about the player.....it’s about what’s best for the team. Which is why I say sign (long term/bridge) or trade him, whatever is best for the team.

IMO Chevy has done nothing to handcuff himself as far as signing free agents......it’s a reality all good teams and good drafting teams go through. The best team arguably in the last decade is the Hawks.......looks at how they managed it the same we have. Plus if referring to UFA signings our weather and small market affects our ability to sign UFA’s not Chevy........which most times is a good thing tbh.

 

[behemolari]

Here are the actual numbers:

16-17 22.4 shifts per game
17-18 20.3 shifts per game
18-19 19.8 shifts per game

In a decade he will have under 10 shifts in Winnipeg, am I doing this right?

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

I see your points. But we dont even have enough to sign them both to fair long term deals and this IMO is what's causing the hold up. Second I think how laines been treated but that's for another convo.

I agree we can't over pay them. We will keep thinning our roster every year to keep our players which is normal I guess. Ut will there come a time when we have a great time and have the cap space to add to put us over the top like Tampa? That's what I was complaining about

Perhaps if Laine had a stronger season (say 50+ goals and more improvements in his overall game) they would have more aggressively cleared space. Once he had his struggles the writing may have been on the wall that there wasn't a long term contract fair to both sides. Laine doesn't want to sign long term at a lower number then what he's potentially worth, Jets don't want to pay top top money for a guy who is an incomplete project. The cake isn't done baking so neither side is willing to go long at what makes sense at this time.

For Laine to get a fair long term deal he probably needs to go through a short bridge to show the dominance we all expect and hope for 22 / 23 year old Laine will have a chance to be the player he wants to be paid to be. Win win for now.

Of course you'd hope that Laine would sign long term now at what would have to be a discounted rate, but that's not likely to happen.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

IMHO Connor gets signed long term 7-8 m before camp and then Laine is either traded or offersheeted, but I still think you are living in denial if you think both players will be at camp.

Patrik could also sign a team friendly deal if the jets have a trade ready and waiting.

Maybe I'm wrong but there is a bigger chance of seeing Patrik in a Tappara jersey then a Jets lineup this season.

The Jets need a dman and center badly and Patty wants out, too bad but what can you do?

Until Patrik specifically says that it's just your opinion.
I believe he wants the best deal he can get.
I believe he wants the best opportunity he can get.
I don't believe he wants "out".
If it happens it happens but you have no proof that is what he wants.
He was seen in full Jets gear skating today, if our team had such cooties I'm sure he has other gear he could wear.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

His defensive metrics are pretty good. Better then his offensive ones.

I guess that's possible but I recall a lot of talk / info about his struggles supporting the puck in his own zone being the main reason he was put back to wing. Plus he was named played of the week for a hat trick not a selke performance.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

I haven't got the slightest clue of what your trying to accomplish by repeating the same thing over and over. I believe that's the third time now when you've said the exact same thing and to what avail? I've said in the past Laine is very ambitious kid who wants to win but also wants to be one of those guys that gets the job done. There are only three forward in the team that get that luxury as far as the Jets/PMo are concerned. He's not part of the crew. I have little doubt about the lack of interest was one of the reasons why he didn't do as well 18-19. He had been around long enough to see that there was no rewards on the line, just the same old ELL and secondary role & minutes. Anyone who'd achieved what he had coming so far with any ambitions would've felt the same way. Why don't you try put yourself into his shoes. You accomplish something remarkable at work and how does your employer reward you? With nothing, well apart from empty promises of better days maybe (in Laine's case more ice time). Now if someone else saw what you achieved and approached you with a better job & salary, would you consider yourself as a diva or drama queen simply because you wanted to jump over? Give me an honest answer, I'm genuinely interested.

Anyway, if he's not happy, he's certainly entitle to feel whatever his feeling as much as he's entitled to want to go somewhere else to get the opportunities that he isn't getting in the Jets. Now I'm no mind reader, but I can interpret what I can see and what I can hear (and in this case read). Why would he comment about the lack of quality in line mates if he was pleased?



Yeah we've heard the story about spreading the wealth and how exactly has that worked for Laine or even the second line as a whole? I would say not that splendid. How has it helped the Jets to be a one line team despite the depth? Seen the Cup lately? And no, Laine doesn't score with Little, if you have watched Jets even the slightest, you would know as much by now. He might get an apple here or there, but it's nothing compared to what he can accomplish with a capable center. That center doesn't even have to be Scheifele's caliper as we saw when Stastny arrived. I really don't know if Connor would or could have done better with Little, there's simply not enough consistent data of the two. However I think Little's top six days are far in the past and his offensive contribution is quite limited, which in turn affects to whoever he plays with.

Well at least there's something we do agree upon. The question is, is it too late to salvage the situation? That I don't know. However I'm quite certain any long deal (unless massive) is off the table and at best we're looking something short-term.

I like how you position yourself as Laine's HF Jets media consultant. Your being called out for portraying Laine as entitled / immature / "a diva" or however you want to say it when you hypothesize that his bad play was due to him "losing his smile". Any top end high skill athlete with aspirations of being the best have way more resilience then you suggest. If what you're saying is true it would really speak bad to his character. He's not flipping burgers here. Star players have a lot of pull with their teams. Laine is worth a lot to the Jets from a marketing perspective. If his usage has him wanting out then Chipman / Chevy should be doing things to correct that.

I DON'T BELIEVE that Laine is like this. I think he struggles for many reasons but the last of it was that he simply lost his motivation to play. It makes no sense. He was in his contract year and trying to line himself up to get a huge pay day. He was a young guy with huge expectations for himself, who likely was struggling through some back issues that were exasperated by him losing his confidence.

If Laine truly wanted out the best thing he could do is keep that REALLY quite and discretely deal with management and ownership about that. The team is only trading a guy when they can make their team better. Public airing of laundry just makes it more difficult to do that. But Laine hasn't lobbied for any of this. He wants the best deal he can get, I'm sure he wants better usage. All the same as the other RFA's.

No one has offered an offer sheet that he's signed so that is a moot point. Not many teams have the assets and cap space to acquire Laine. The Jets would be fools to trade a 21 year old player for anything less then a perfect fit that can help the team now and in the future and can mitigate the huge risk of moving Laine.

His poor performance last year hurt the chances of the 2 parties agreeing to a long term deal that fits for both sides right now. Such is life.

1290 is reporting talks have picked up between the Jets and Laine. I look forward to seeing him on our team this fall.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Anyone find it odd that Connor is listed on the roster but Laine isn't....

Anyone find it odd that Tampere is the only city that is entirely capitalized? Accidental, or is there a hidden meaning there?

 

[Gm0ney]

Anyone find it odd that Tampere is the only city that is entirely capitalized? Accidental, or is there a hidden meaning there?

Maybe it's an acronym...some crafty Finnish speaker should make one up that fits and means something witty. I'll check back later.

 

[Analyst365]

Anyone find it odd that Connor is listed on the roster but Laine isn't....

Get your 55 jerseys changed for the new season. There's a new Mark in town.