Friedman: Laine and Jets top guys not on the same page

[RorschachWJK]

Has anyone else noticed that Finns seem to be the most polarizing of all hockey players? Not all but large chunk of them seem to be aholes. Laine, pool-party, Kakko (based on interviews I have heard) even Joulevi, who I am quite high on, seem to be very aloof and a bit entitled. People talk a out the Russian factor, which I find to be crap since for the most part the ones who bail seem to be the ones who are not elite, or didn't live up to the hype. Laine seems like a complete *****e bag just like JP. All things considered, id draft any other Nationality before a Finn if all things are equal.

Erhm....an interesting take

 

[PhilJets]

The jets record improved SIGNIFICANTLY once laine got demoted off Scheifele’s line. That much is not up for debate. Not sure why all these Finnish fans want the jets to purposely make the jets a worse team by rewarding laine with ice time he doesn’t deserve? It’s mind boggling

Jets record significantly improve because
They found their goalie.
They got rid of pavelec

Its mind boggling you didnt see that.

 

[Ippenator]

You don't lose offence by forechecking, stickchecking, anticipating passes, closing gaps, poke-checking on a fly-by, reverse-hitting. It didn't hinder Yzerman or Modano to start playing that way. You could gain a decent chunk more points by being more risk-tolerant and some players are certainly so risk-averse that it also hinders their game, but when your play is so brash that it costs your team games when you're not scoring or sometimes even when you are...

well, there's your player like Drouin. Barkov is actually a good example of the opposite. He converts on plays because of his two-way play. He obviously broke out this year, but he still stayed in the Selke conversation.

I don't think I have to tell you which player Laine is. He had one tool and the league figured it out.

Well I have been watching hockey intensively for over 35 years already, and saw Yzerman and Modano play A LOT through both of their careers. I don’t agree with much of your views though, as both Yzerman still won their Stanley Cups because of their own superb offensive skills as well as having also loads of absolute elite teammates and good coaching for those times. Sure they did play some more reckless hockey when they were younger, but they did still stay always as pretty darn offensively focused players, just more balanced when they were older and more experienced.

I watched also Barkov play a lot during all his seasons in the NHL and even a couple of his Liiga season’s and I can definitely say that he changed his approach clearly during last season to much more off offensively active and less pure defensive minded passive kind of hockey that way too often in the past caused his line to be too often unefficient with their offence play. At the end of the season the talks of Barkov being a Selke candidate pretty much died, which was just great, as he was a clearly better player than he was ever before exactly then.

Also if you seriously think that Laine doesn’t play defensively responsible hockey when he is fit, then you Mr. are absolutely out to lunch and probably haven’t really watched him play that much. His first seasons he was practically always the first forward to go back to defend and he was practically all the time covering for Scheifele, as he is a center who loves to get close to the goal with his offensive play, which makes him the kind of a vulnerable center defensively, like most of the high goal scoring centers are (Matthews and his types really). These types of centers are so often late for getting back at defending at their own end that they are defensive liabilities often through their playstyle, unless they just help their team score clearly much more goals than they allow, which is fine too - as long as it really happens.

But sure last season Laine was pretty poor by all means, I will admit that any time. But some people don’t really want to understand that he was playing with a back problem most of the time and he couldn’t use his strengths too well and it also made his weaknesses look even much worse than they have been when he had been healthier. He has his physical weaknesses most of all and he can get of course more skilled with his defensive play, but for sure he isn’t ever stealing for his offence and having bad attitude with playing defence. The people who truly claim something like that are absolutely out to lunch or simply also Laine haters. And this is a fact.

 

[PhilJets]

Here's the thing about Laine, and why it's easier to side with his teammates over him.

When he came into the league, he caught it by storm and had a great rookie year.

The problem is, the rest of the league learns what you do and they make it harder to play against you.

Laine didn't make huge improvements the next two years, and that is painfully obvious when you look at his play 5 on 5.

Laine is ultra lucky that he gets to play with world class talent on the PP because he is more dependent on his linemates than any superstar not named Leon Draisaitl.

Wait
LAINE went from 36 to 44 goals year 2.

Then on pace for 60 goals til end of dec 2018.

He dropped off starting 2019 for the 2-3 months.
Its been debated a long time.
And its not because he sucked.
He was pissed. (I didnt like it to be honest).
But he turned around after spending time with his dad.
Then watch the playoff game against the Blues.

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

Jets record significantly improve because
They found their goalie.
They got rid of pavelec

Its mind boggling you didnt see that.

You are obviously confused. Laine was on a line with Scheifele while hellebuyck was the jets goalie. DURING the season, while laine was playing with Scheifele, the jets record was not very good (out of the playoff picture). Once laine was demoted DURING THE SEASON, the jets went on a tear, playing far better TEAM FIRST hockey, all while laine sulked and was one of the few jets plyers to show absolutely no heart.

So pavelec had nothing to do with the jets turn around, as Hellebuyck was already the jets starter

 

[Albatros]

Once laine was demoted DURING THE SEASON, the jets went on a tear, playing far better TEAM FIRST hockey, all while laine sulked and was one of the few jets plyers to show absolutely no heart.

Obviously you should trade Laine as soon as possible if you want a team of grinders, that should be common sense.

 

[RyderRocks73]

Has anyone else noticed that Finns seem to be the most polarizing of all hockey players? Not all but large chunk of them seem to be aholes. Laine, pool-party, Kakko (based on interviews I have heard) even Joulevi, who I am quite high on, seem to be very aloof and a bit entitled. People talk a out the Russian factor, which I find to be crap since for the most part the ones who bail seem to be the ones who are not elite, or didn't live up to the hype. Laine seems like a complete *****e bag just like JP. All things considered, id draft any other Nationality before a Finn if all things are equal.

Or you get a Koivu, Aho, Teravainen, Lehkonen, Armia, Timonen, Lehtinen, Barkov. They usually produce really smart 200-ft players.

 

[PhilJets]

You are obviously confused. Laine was on a line with Scheifele while hellebuyck was the jets goalie. DURING the season, while laine was playing with Scheifele, the jets record was not very good (out of the playoff picture). Once laine was demoted DURING THE SEASON, the jets went on a tear, playing far better TEAM FIRST hockey, all while laine sulked and was one of the few jets plyers to show absolutely no heart.

So pavelec had nothing to do with the jets turn around, as Hellebuyck was already the jets starter

You are confuse

Jets scoring is not the problem.
Its there defense and goaltending.

Jets top lines like these

Ehlers Schiefele Laine
Perrault little Wheeler

Are the best top 6 they had pound for pound.

Hellybuyck was the Vezina finalist Laine year 2.

Hellybuyck was sharing crease in Laines year one.

Jets always went on a tear as soon as they are out of the playoff during their early years.
Yeah that 7 game winning streak to end the season as soon as they missed the playoff.

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

Obviously you should trade Laine as soon as possible if you want a team of grinders, that should be common sense.

Not necessarily. If laine is willing to take market value of 6.5 to 7 million on a 6 or 7 year contract, that would likely be worth keeping a player that, despite having a large number of glaring deficiencies and a general lack of heart, also has an incredible shot. If laine is your 5th best forward, like he is with Winnipeg, or numerous other NHL teams, you likely have a strong team.

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

You are confuse

Jets scoring is not the problem.
Its there defense and goaltending.

Jets top lines like these

Ehlers Schiefele Laine
Perrault little Wheeler

Are the best top 6 they had pound for pound.

Hellybuyck was the Vezina finalist Laine year 2.

Hellybuyck was sharing crease in Laines year one.

Jets always went on a tear as soon as they are out of the playoff during their early years.
Yeah that 7 game winning streak to end the season as soon as they missed the playoff.

I need clarification. I’ve been told Little is a bum that no player (laine in particular) can carry. But I’ve also been told that Wheeler was able to carry him. The same people that say laine is better than Wheeler, also day Wheeler can carry little. So why can’t laine drive a line that includes little, while other 2016 drafted players can drive their own lines?

 

[Ippenator]

Wait
LAINE went from 36 to 44 goals year 2.

Then on pace for 60 goals til end of dec 2018.

He dropped off starting 2019 for the 2-3 months.
Its been debated a long time.
And its not because he sucked.
He was pissed. (I didnt like it to be honest).
But he turned around after spending time with his dad.
Then watch the playoff game against the Blues.

I don’t believe that much in this theory of yours, although I very often agree with you. Maybe some slight truth in this, but I’m practically sure that his season ruining problem in general was last season his back problems. It was so obvious from watching him play that I have no doubt about the true problem being there. He absolutely needs to get his back fixed and strengthened and to improve himself still a lot physically. Otherwise he will not ever reach his full potential, or get even close to it.

 

[PhilJets]

Not necessarily. If laine is willing to take market value of 6.5 to 7 million on a 6 or 7 year contract, that would likely be worth keeping a player that, despite having a large number of glaring deficiencies and a general lack of heart, also has an incredible shot. If laine is your 5th best forward, like he is with Winnipeg, or numerous other NHL teams, you likely have a strong team.

During the 4 rounds of playoff that the Jets played.
Laine was the best forward in 2 of them

Minny and Blues.
He was 2nd to schiefele in Vegas series.
And 3rd against preds behind Schiefele and Stastny.

Laine doesnt lack heart.
He was one of the few Jets player going toe to toe with blues players all series long 》 6 .
games.
He was the one player despite bad back and groin injury going all out until the dying minutes of game 6.

 

[PhilJets]

I don’t believe that much in this theory of yours, although I very often agree with you. Maybe some slight truth in this, but I’m practically sure that his season ruining problem in general was last season his back problems. It was so obvious from watching him play that I have no doubt about the true problem being there. He absolutely needs to get his back fixed and strengthened and to improve himself still a lot physically. Otherwise he will not ever reach his full potential, or get even close to it.

You have a point
It is and it played a big part.
But in January you could see he was different Laine. Wih his demenour. It went on til February. They had that break and he hsd a talk with his dad. And then he was inserted into top line.
Boom you see different Laine.


But you have a point

But i stick with mine
Mostly because people say he got figured out.



And also before anybody jump all over my post

Lack of heart doesnt necessarily equate to Laine because he gave up.Mostly because he was doing all he could. And at the end of 2 years and 3 months and nothing is happening.
He didnt know what to do anymore.
Well most of us won't at that age. With that much expectation.
Scoring at almost a point a game clip at 18.
44 goals , first to score above 40 in that low ice time with 70 points at age 19.
Scoring 18 goals in a month , missing by 1 in 4 less games i think at age 20.

What else he needed to do?
He back checked, usually the first forward down on his line the first 2 years.

 

[RyderRocks73]

Well I have been watching hockey intensively for over 35 years already, and saw Yzerman and Modano play A LOT through both of their careers. I don’t agree with much of your views though, as both Yzerman still won their Stanley Cups because of their own superb offensive skills as well as having also loads of absolute elite teammates and good coaching for those times. Sure they did play some more reckless hockey when they were younger, but they did still stay always as pretty darn offensively focused players, just more balanced when they were older and more experienced.

I watched also Barkov play a lot during all his seasons in the NHL and even a couple of his Liiga season’s and I can definitely say that he changed his approach clearly during last season to much more off offensively active and less pure defensive minded passive kind of hockey that way too often in the past caused his line to be too often unefficient with their offence play. At the end of the season the talks of Barkov being a Selke candidate pretty much died, which was just great, as he was a clearly better player than he was ever before exactly then.

Also if you seriously think that Laine doesn’t play defensively responsible hockey when he is fit, then you Mr. are absolutely out to lunch and probably haven’t really watched him play that much. His first seasons he was practically always the first forward to go back to defend and he was practically all the time covering for Scheifele, as he is a center who loves to get close to the goal with his offensive play, which makes him the kind of a vulnerable center defensively, like most of the high goal scoring centers are (Matthews and his types really). These types of centers are so often late for getting back at defending at their own end that they are defensive liabilities often through their playstyle, unless they just help their team score clearly much more goals than they allow, which is fine too - as long as it really happens.

But sure last season Laine was pretty poor by all means, I will admit that any time. But some people don’t really want to understand that he was playing with a back problem most of the time and he couldn’t use his strengths too well and it also made his weaknesses look even much worse than they have been when he had been healthier. He has his physical weaknesses most of all and he can get of course more skilled with his defensive play, but for sure he isn’t ever stealing for his offence and having bad attitude with playing defence. The people who truly claim something like that are absolutely out to lunch or simply also Laine haters. And this is a fact.

Lehtinen, Zubov, Hatcher, Carbonneau, Keane, Langenbrunner, Sydor

Lidstrom, Holmstrom, Fedorov, Datsyuk, Maltby, Draper, Larionov, McCarty, Dandenault, Fetisov, Kozlov, Ward, Konstantinov, Lapointe

Sure, Detroit had their offensive dynamos. But Modano and Yzerman's teams were coached well and had great players at both ends of the ice.

Be right back, I'm out to lunch.

 

[Ippenator]

You are obviously confused. Laine was on a line with Scheifele while hellebuyck was the jets goalie. DURING the season, while laine was playing with Scheifele, the jets record was not very good (out of the playoff picture). Once laine was demoted DURING THE SEASON, the jets went on a tear, playing far better TEAM FIRST hockey, all while laine sulked and was one of the few jets plyers to show absolutely no heart.

So pavelec had nothing to do with the jets turn around, as Hellebuyck was already the jets starter

This is true, but what is also true is that Hellebuyck had an awful season then. I was in fact completely pissed off at him then and was already starting to write him off as a truly good NHL goalie. Thank God he managed to turn it around already the next season - with the help of especially the much improved Jets defence. Trouba and Myers played most of the season and Morrissey had clearly improved with his defensive play and Enström was still a pretty reliable veteran defenceman that was available.

 

[Ippenator]

Lehtinen, Zubov, Hatcher, Carbonneau, Keane, Langenbrunner, Sydor

Lidstrom, Holmstrom, Fedorov, Datsyuk, Maltby, Draper, Larionov, McCarty, Dandenault, Fetisov, Kozlov, Ward, Konstantinov, Lapointe

Sure, Detroit had their offensive dynamos. But Modano and Yzerman's teams were coached well and had great players at both ends of the ice.

Be right back, I'm out to lunch.

I have a feeling that you won’t be back from lunch any time soon though...

 

[Matthews34]

Patrik Laine is better than Auston Matthews and should've went first overall in 2016.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

All of us do...

At 18, 19,20 yrs old.

I believe he will.

If Jets leadership group cant handle a teenager 20 yr old young man.

Then Jets are toast.

It seems like they are handling him just fine....right off their line! LOL.

 

[Keeptdos]

Has anyone else noticed that Finns seem to be the most polarizing of all hockey players? Not all but large chunk of them seem to be aholes. Laine, pool-party, Kakko (based on interviews I have heard) even Joulevi, who I am quite high on, seem to be very aloof and a bit entitled. People talk a out the Russian factor, which I find to be crap since for the most part the ones who bail seem to be the ones who are not elite, or didn't live up to the hype. Laine seems like a complete *****e bag just like JP. All things considered, id draft any other Nationality before a Finn if all things are equal.

Yes and not forgetting those Finnish fans am I right? Horibble, just horrible...

 

[jonlin]

Has anyone else noticed that Finns seem to be the most polarizing of all hockey players? Not all but large chunk of them seem to be aholes. Laine, pool-party, Kakko (based on interviews I have heard) even Joulevi, who I am quite high on, seem to be very aloof and a bit entitled. People talk a out the Russian factor, which I find to be crap since for the most part the ones who bail seem to be the ones who are not elite, or didn't live up to the hype. Laine seems like a complete *****e bag just like JP. All things considered, id draft any other Nationality before a Finn if all things are equal.

I`ve noticed that if I would write this about "good-old Canadian kids" I would get PM:s by certain admins here and infractions or banned. The other way around it seems to be ok?

 

[traffic cone]

Patrik Laine is better than Auston Matthews and should've went first overall in 2016.

And Matthews will always be two tiers below McDavid while also being a playoff chocker.

What has it got to do with this thread?

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Wait
LAINE went from 36 to 44 goals year 2.

Then on pace for 60 goals til end of dec 2018.

He dropped off starting 2019 for the 2-3 months.
Its been debated a long time.
And its not because he sucked.
He was pissed. (I didnt like it to be honest).
But he turned around after spending time with his dad.
Then watch the playoff game against the Blues.

You obviously can't objectively participate in this thread if this is the kind of spin you want to put on things, you've poorly represented both seasons. Laine missed 9 games in his rookie season so the goal jump is more negligible than the flat totals you provided. And jesus, "he was on pace for 60"? That's a mortifying way to spin this season. I'd say he got 50 points, which is what happened, here on planet earth. The poster said he didn't make significant strides since his rookie season and that is 100% correct. He also mentioned 5 on 5 play, which you didn't touch, but Laine has not topped his rookie season 5 on 5 goal total, and again, he did that in less games.

The doom and gloom around Laine is overstated but the Jets are going to have their work cut out for them because this prior season must've left them very far apart. I also get a pretty heavy Seguin/Bruins vibe, based on Laine and the style of the team. But if the Jets are smart they'll retain him, I'm sure he'll bounce back from last year and I don't doubt that he has a higher level than his rookie season and can probably improve on it "significantly" in ways he certainly hasn't yet.

 

[Psych0dad]

I agree with the majority of jets fans. Laine is inferior to Wheeler in literally every aspect of hockey outside of shooting the puck.

Perhaps since you disagree, you could tell us what laine does better as a player today than Wheeler does? Obviously defensive play isn’t one, so what exactly is laine superior at?

You don't speak for majority of jets fans. That is your own opinion and projection. Since you asked me, Laine has higher IQ and vision, his passing is smoother. Due to the higher IQ his defensive positioning is better. Laine has better hand/eye, can stickhandle better. All the puck skills go to Laine. Goals win games and Laine is far better at scoring.

Wheeler has better stamina and acceleration, physically ahead of Laine. Wheeler is in great shape.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

Watching the 6 game playoff against the blues.

Laine was the super hyper competitive athelete doung everything for the Jets.

Schiefele and Wheeler was chilling all 6 games except that o.t. goal.
But they gave up that back breaking game 5 last minute goal to the blues.

To be honest i side with Laine.

My comment was about the 82 regular season games.

That said, I agree with you that Laine came to play for the series against the Blues. Meaning, he was physically and defensively engaged which seemed to be lacking in the regular season for the most part.

 

[Boxscore]

The questions about Laine's drive, commitment and attitude began during the 2017-18 playoffs, if we're being honest.

After disappearing in the playoffs, and looking sluggish and poor during stretches, I assumed he would take the NHL by storm last year to prove everyone wrong.

Instead, he regressed. Outside of one month, he was horrible. That's not a good look for a young player hoping to secure a 9-10 mil a year deal.

Hopefully Laine doesn't pull a Thomas Vanek... after coming out of the gate and looking like an elite goal scorer as a rookie... Vanek remained a good, solid scorer during his career but never ended up as great as everyone first envisioned.