Laine’s off-season training (see warning in post 832)

[heilongjetsfan]

@Tommigun ...that was my first post in this thread...

 

[Ippenator]

Yes. Because it was a race against another person, not against the clock. He eased up when he saw he’d lose.

Also, all other participants were probably hung over like hell.

Look, it’s a playful competition not even against the clock with a sample size of 1. I’d advice you to stop using it because it’s such a silly argument.

Sorry but you are now completely wrong here. The times that the skaters had tell us still that they all were skating like hell around the rink. You don’t seem to realize that to get even a time under 14 seconds you have to be a pretty darn good skater already with your top speed and turning skills. A truly weak skater would get a clearly weaker time than 15 seconds. This is what you seriously don’t seem to understand here when you try to push your agenda without accepting proven facts. Laine’s time was 13.420, which is a very good time no matter how hungover (they weren’t, but whatever) the other contestants were.

No matter how much you put down Laine’s achievement in him beating so many well known great skaters in the all star skating competition, you can’t deny that he had a darn good time that lost to the all time best times in the competition with less than half of a second. Do you care to tell all of us us how you think that was possible if Laine doesn’t have in fact already great top speed and turning skills? Magic? Teleportation? Maybe pure luck? The clock was also maybe hungover? Or does any other laughably stupid explanation come to your mind? Seems that you just can’t accept the fact that Laine has great top speed and very good turning skills already. His problem is really only with the acceleration and the stamina, and in fact his lack of stamina is the clearest weakness that he has related to his skating.

 

[Psych0dad]

Ok so the game and penalty shot contests are a joke, but not the shooting and skating competitions? Cherry picking much?

Glad to hear you understood the nature of that event.

 

[kunekune]

Aki-Petteri Berg, Sami Salo, Lauri Korpikoski... what a motley crew. And one Stanley Cup combined.

I didn’t ask for a list of past clients but of examples where after an athlete joined Rautala’s gym he showed clear improvement.

I can give you at least one name. Patrik Laine.

 

[Tommigun]

I can give you at least one name. Patrik Laine.

But the problem is that he didn’t show clear improvement after training with Rautala. The problem that some of us have with Rautala is exactly the lack of progress, or that Laine even seems to regress. That and the fact Laine shows up at training camp in bad shape.

 

[Tommigun]

Guys, stop trying to argue with Tommigun. He knows better than any trainer and no accomplishment is good enough. Total waste of time

No I don’t but I know what I see and that is Laine showing up at camp in bad shape taking half a year to find his legs, and zero improvement in the off-season so far. That worries me, but the cult of Rautala here does everything in their might to try to convince anyone who is worried about Rautala.

Who are you guys with absolute insight in this manner to lecture and ridicule me???? Do you “own” this topic, sure seems so when you talk down on anyone worried and get offended if someone doesn’t become converted. I just don’t buy your arguments.

 

[abax44]

Rautala suuuucks. Didn't even make the list. An out of touch old man doesn't know best... No way!!!

Meet the trainers: These six men help NHL stars get ready to shine

 

[Ippenator]

No I don’t but I know what I see and that is Laine showing up at camp in bad shape taking half a year to find his legs, and zero improvement in the off-season so far. That worries me, but the cult of Rautala here does everything in their might to try to convince anyone who is worried about Rautala.

Who are you guys with absolute insight in this manner to lecture and ridicule me???? Do you “own” this topic, sure seems so when you talk down on anyone worried and get offended if someone doesn’t become converted. I just don’t buy your arguments.

Then just keep on worrying. I can tell you that you will never be satisfied with his skating, as obviously you look at the esthetics of his skating without seeing the great top speed skating and good turning skills he already has. With his long limbs and naturally less explosive legs though he will never be a speed demon with his acceleration. He can still develop his acceleration probably by some amount, but if seriously anyone is expecting him to ever be a truly explosive big sized (6’5 tall) player that there is only one in the world - in Blake Wheeler - then those people will always be disappointed.

The better question is in fact that who the heck are you who thinks that you know things better than an athlete himself, his very well appreciated professional trainer, the whole Jets coaching and management, the general way of training speed skating for Olympic speedskaters and people with real common sense whom trust all these specialists much rather than you whom seems to have very little knowledge of the basics that everyone following hockey should really know about training the skating better when lacking explosive power and stamina for the legs? Who are you seriously to keep repeating the mumbojumbo all over again about how Rautala is a charlatan and air to you, when your own credentials are absolutely zero compared to him, and you have shown no real knowledge in your posts about how to train skating correctly?

Just getting so irritating that even how much you are given proof you refuse to accept anything, and just keep going back again and again to your good old mumbojumbo skating thesises. Yeah, you just keep on worrying while others will enjoy watching Laine play and being very succesful while he is doing it...

 

[ps241]

I feel like we might be obsessing a bit here.

 

[Tommigun]

Then just keep on worrying. I can tell you that you will never be satisfied with his skating, as obviously you look at the esthetics of his skating without seeing the great top speed skating and good turning skills he already has. With his long limbs and naturally less explosive legs though he will never be a speed demon with his acceleration. He can still develop his acceleration probably by some amount, but if seriously anyone is expecting him to ever be a truly explosive big sized (6’5 tall) player that there is only one in the world - in Blake Wheeler - then those people will always be disappointed.

The better question is in fact that who the heck are you who thinks that you know things better than an athlete himself, his very well appreciated professional trainer, the whole Jets coaching and management, the general way of training speed skating for Olympic speedskaters and people with real common sense whom trust all these specialists much rather than you whom seems to have very little knowledge of the basics that everyone following hockey should really know about training the skating better when lacking explosive power and stamina for the legs? Who are you seriously to keep repeating the mumbojumbo all over again about how Rautala is a charlatan and air to you, when your own credentials are absolutely zero compared to him, and you have shown no real knowledge in your posts about how to train skating correctly?

Just getting so irritating that even how much you are given proof you refuse to accept anything, and just keep going back again and again to your good old mumbojumbo skating thesises. Yeah, you just keep on worrying while others will enjoy watching Laine play and being very succesful while he is doing it...

It is just normal for fans to criticize manegement, trainers and players. If a fan criticizes a player it doesn’t mean that the fan would be a better NHLer. It’s the same when a fan criticizes a trainer, it doesn’t mean that the fan would be a better trainer. Of course I wouldn’t be a better trainer than Rautala, but that doesn’t mean I can’t criticize his methods.

 

[Tommigun]

I feel like we might be obsessing a bit here.

What? No way ,D

Passionate fans are passionate. It’s the off-season so we can only obsess over signings and off-season training. And some arbitration this year as well.

I want Laine to be the best player he can be.

 

[Romang67]

It is perfectly fine to question Rautala's methods on HFJets. If you can't handle people questioning his methods then maybe this isn't the thread for you.

 

[Tommigun]

Rautala suuuucks. Didn't even make the list. An out of touch old man doesn't know best... No way!!!

Meet the trainers: These six men help NHL stars get ready to shine

Wow, good read. I’d really recommend everyone to at least skim through it. For example Austin Matthews goes to this guy:

“Belfry attacks the game from a research perspective, using video to track game habits and skill execution to answer the question: what does a player do the most and how successful is he in those situations? Belfry also looks at less efficient areas of a player’s game and problem-solves with him to build a new skill or evolve his game.”

Compare that with Rautala who’s not even a hockey player coach, the extent of development he can do is to add more weights in his gym, while Matthews gets personalized treatment with the aim to make him better at his weak areas.

I envy Matthews’s training a bit after reading that, while Laine spends his time in a group with no personalization or focus on his weak areas and plays badminton and lifts weights.

 

[abax44]

Blake Wheeler is the only big skater in the world with acceleration? Huh, who knew?

 

[Ippenator]

It is perfectly fine to question Rautala's methods on HFJets. If you can't handle people questioning his methods then maybe this isn't the thread for you.

Yeah, it’s sure very great and smart questioning when a guy is every single time any proof is brought in about Rautala’s methods working fine, just simply denying the proof and moving the goal posts. Very good discussion indeed. What else has he said here than that Rautala sucks and Laine regressed, although there is clear evidence already with his goal and point progression and 5 on 5 goal difference that what he is talking about is just not simply true. Is it fine to just keep repeating the same thing on and on even when the proof against it has been clearly brought in? Even dismissing how well Laine did with his TIME against all time best times in the all star skating competition. Phew, what stuff is truly going on here...

 

[Ippenator]

Blake Wheeler is the only big skater in the world with acceleration? Huh, who knew?

With elite acceleration. Yes.

 

[Ippenator]

Wow, good read. I’d really recommend everyone to at least skim through it. For example Austin Matthews goes to this guy:

“Belfry attacks the game from a research perspective, using video to track game habits and skill execution to answer the question: what does a player do the most and how successful is he in those situations? Belfry also looks at less efficient areas of a player’s game and problem-solves with him to build a new skill or evolve his game.”

Compare that with Rautala who’s not even a hockey player coach, the extent of development he can do is to add more weights in his gym, while Matthews gets personalized treatment with the aim to make him better at his weak areas.

I envy Matthews’s training a bit after reading that, while Laine spends his time in a group with no personalization or focus on his weak areas and plays badminton and lifts weights.

Do you also envy Matthews’s play in the playoffs?

 

[Tommigun]

Yeah, it’s sure very great and smart questioning when a guy is every single time any proof is brought in about Rautala’s methods working fine, just simply denying the proof and moving the goal posts. Very good discussion indeed. What else has he said here than that Rautala sucks and Laine regressed, although there is clear evidence already with his goal and point progression and 5 on 5 goal difference that what he is talking about is just not simply true. Is it fine to just keep repeating the same thing on and on even when the proof against it has been clearly brought in? Even dismissing how well Laine did with his TIME against all time best times in the all star skating competition. Phew, what stuff is truly going on here...

The problem here is that what you call proof is not proof for a lot of us. I still haven’t seen a single indication of his methods working that I consider proof.

Nobody is denying that Laine is a great goal scorer (I’m a huge fan and that’s why I discuss this). But that isn’t proof of Rautala’s methods working.

 

[Tommigun]

Do you also envy Matthews’s play in the playoffs?

No, but I think that he may get an edge in the future with better training methods. Did you have a chance to skim the article yet?

 

[Ippenator]

The problem here is that what you call proof is not proof for a lot of us. I still haven’t seen a single indication of his methods working that I consider proof.

Nobody is denying that Laine is a great goal scorer (I’m a huge fan and that’s why I discuss this). But that isn’t proof of what Rautala is doing working.

You have that kind of an agenda against Rautala and Finnish training in general, that it’s obvious that you will not accept anything as proof for Rautala being succesful as a trainer. You have an attitude which comes through with every phrase that you write about Rautala. And what proof you have shown here that you are right in anything? All you have said is the proof of your personal eye test, which I can honestly say has failed you pretty badly. At the latter half of the season Laine’s skating was looking already clearly better than last season. But I’m sure that you claim otherwise. But then you are simply wrong. Care to enlighten us with some other proof than your failed eye test?

 

[Romang67]

Yeah, it’s sure very great and smart questioning when a guy is every single time any proof is brought in about Rautala’s methods working fine, just simply denying the proof and moving the goal posts. Very good discussion indeed. What else has he said here than that Rautala sucks and Laine regressed, although there is clear evidence already with his goal and point progression and 5 on 5 goal difference that what he is talking about is just not simply true. Is it fine to just keep repeating the same thing on and on even when the proof against it has been clearly brought in? Even dismissing how well Laine did with his TIME against all time best times in the all star skating competition. Phew, what stuff is truly going on here...

You must have misinterpreted my post. It wasn't a request. It wasn't debatable.

 

[Ippenator]

No, but I think that he may get an edge in the future with better training methods. Did you have a chance to skim the article yet?

Read it and not particularly impressed with anything in there. Of course it could work for some individuals well and worse for others. Where’s the proof that it would work better for Laine than what he is doing now?

 

[abax44]

With elite acceleration. Yes.

Uh huh.

 

[abax44]

Read it and not particularly impressed with anything in there. Of course it could work for some individuals well and worse for others. Where’s the proof that it would work better for Laine than what he is doing now?

Anything is better than eating Cheetos and playing NHL 17/18 all summer.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

 

[RageQuit77]

From: @Se829ne of HFBoards:
To: [email protected]

"Dear Mr. Rautala

We Laine fans hanging online at hfboards.mandatory.com feel concerned about Patrik Laine's summer training methods, namely about a lack of on-ice skating hours in it. We enthusiast would save about 1000 pages of post in various threads here in the site, if Patrik's training schedule would include at least few hours of skating per a week, so our horrors about Laine starting with cement-boots oncoming next NHL season wouldnt' become the reality.

Respecting your decades long experience in sport training, while hoping extra strength to Patrik's legs and particularly explosiveness to his few first strides. Thank you,

Sincerely,

Se829ne

P.S. More information about the debate here:
https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/patrik-laine-mod-warning-in-post-150.2514961/ and here
https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/laine’s-off-season-training.2516019/
and tens other threads following same veins.

"

Not yet sent.