Confirmed with Link: Kunin traded to Sharks

[hido]

His .82 g/60 playing 5on5 explains why he played all 82 games. There were three full season forwards with a better g/60 on the Preds ... Forsberg, Duchene, Jeannot.

League wide he was 179th among forwards with five or more games played.

The flip side of that was his total lack of PP scoring and number of PIMs. The rest of the PP unit scored more than enough to cover for his shortcomings in that area. His 22 minor penalties were costly for a team with a relatively poor PK%.

I get it. My point is that he played 82 games and was essentially of no value. I don’t understand why the club couldn’t see that. The fancy stats show that he served no purpose.

 

[101st_fan]

I get it. My point is that he played 82 games and was essentially of no value. I don’t understand why the club couldn’t see that. The fancy stats show that he served no purpose.

In what logical world is .82 goals per 60 minutes of 5on5 play ... 13 ES goals (7.8% of the team's regular season total) of no value? If you said did nothing on the PP ... I'd agree. An overall "no value" claim requires ignoring his ES numbers which the team now needs to replace.

The "fancy stats" at one point showed Boro and Benning had the best expected goals against numbers on the Preds .... nevermind that the most basic stats showed that to be a crock based on actual goals allowed even at the moment the fancy stats proponents were hyping that datapoint.

 

[Viqsi]

In what logical world is .82 goals per 60 minutes of 5on5 play ... 13 ES goals (7.8% of the team's regular season total) of no value? If you said did nothing on the PP ... I'd agree. An overall "no value" claim requires ignoring his ES numbers which the team now needs to replace.

The "fancy stats" at one point showed Boro and Benning had the best expected goals against numbers on the Preds .... nevermind that the most basic stats showed that to be a crock based on actual goals allowed even at the moment the fancy stats proponents were hyping that datapoint.

There's a serious measurability problem with hockey. I view current analytics partly as a neat supplementary tool, but mostly as a thing whose existence hopefully convinces the League to keep introducing new means of measuring the game so we can get even better stats.

 

[hido]

His metrics regressed in every way last year. I still have no clue how he wasn’t benched once.

 

[101st_fan]

His metrics regressed in every way last year. I still have no clue how he wasn’t benched once.

So from "no value" to "benched once" ... your position is regressing more than Subban's play. Please continue.

 

[101st_fan]

There's a serious measurability problem with hockey. I view current analytics partly as a neat supplementary tool, but mostly as a thing whose existence hopefully convinces the
League to keep introducing new means of measuring the game so we can get even better stats.

Most analytics are at best a supplementary tool in any sport. XG, Corsi, Fenwick et al provide some measurements of possession and shots but on their own really mean next to nothing ... XG doesn't win games. Goals scored do. Of course when sorting the Preds by iXG on naturalstattrick ... Kunin was top 5, same for high danger scoring chances ...

Where Kunin cost himself getting paid at his QO number or more without question was the minor penalties taken and the total lack of production for the amount of PP time. ES wasn't an issue.

If he wanted a pay raise or contract with term even at his QO number ... he shot himself in the foot. I'm interested to see how much and for how long he signs for with SJ.

 

[hido]

So from "no value" to "benched once" ... your position is regressing more than Subban's play. Please continue.

Sorry about your Kunin sweater. But the guy regressed two years in a row (although I don’t really count the bubble year).

 

[Legionnaire11]

Sorry about your Kunin sweater. But the guy regressed two years in a row (although I don’t really count the bubble year).

I'm not saying anything definitive about Kunin here, just an observation on the COVID seasons.

I create player ratings for sim hockey games, a lot of this task is converting real world stats into sim engine attributes. And I can definitely say that those two seasons had so many weird anomalies with players playing well above or well below their typical seasons. So players who were just starting their careers in 2020 are very difficult to have a solid read on because they only have one full normal season to go by.

I think we saw a similar thing with the draft this week. Near the end of round 3 and on, there was a lot more overage players selected than usual, I think because the scouting finally had a chance to catch up and a lot of questions were answered about those players in a full normal situation.

So, Kunin did have his moments during the COVID seasons and playoffs, but I'd wager he is a lot closer to what we got last season when things were mostly normal. Still, I hope he finds success again in LA.

 

[101st_fan]

Sorry about your Kunin sweater. But the guy regressed two years in a row (although I don’t really count the bubble year).

Don't have a Kunin sweater and his ES stats, both regular and fancy, make it very clear why he played. I'm not sorry that logic fails you and leads you to inane sweater comments.

Try again.

 

[hido]

Don't have a Kunin sweater and his ES stats, both regular and fancy, make it very clear why he played. I'm not sorry that logic fails you and leads you to inane sweater comments.

Try again.

Ok, I’ll try again. I illogically feel that the Nashville Predators made a great step by getting rid of a regressing player and his contract. As does most everyone else in this thread. If you feel that he was going to turn into a massive asset and we should have kept him, cool. But please have a sense of humor. It’s a message board.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Ok, I’ll try again. I illogically feel that the Nashville Predators made a great step by getting rid of a regressing player and his contract. As does most everyone else in this thread. If you feel that he was going to turn into a massive asset and we should have kept him, cool. But please have a sense of humor. It’s a message board.

Hm, I don't imagine anybody truly felt he'd turn into "a massive asset". Just... he could be a decently useful role player with a few relatively minor re-tweaks to his game is all.

He was good for us in the Covid season. He has some attributes that could make him a decent player. It's nothing "massive". But I do feel he could be worth his $2.3M QO if he actually fixed those issues that cropped up last season.

Not really sure where a sense of humor comes in, it's just generic debate about a depth player.

 

[101st_fan]

Ok, I’ll try again. I illogically feel that the Nashville Predators made a great step by getting rid of a regressing player and his contract. As does most everyone else in this thread. If you feel that he was going to turn into a massive asset and we should have kept him, cool. But please have a sense of humor. It’s a message board.

I never said he'd turn into a massive asset. In fact I mentioned both his pros and cons while addressing where his stats aligned with both the team and league at large. You on the other hand went from the hyperbolic "no value" ... backpedaled to complaining that he should have been scratched ... then conflated logic and feelings which are not the same at all.


My sense of humor is just fine as evidenced by the laughing I'm doing while reading this thread. Please, keep the chuckles coming.

 

[Armourboy]

Hm, I don't imagine anybody truly felt he'd turn into "a massive asset". Just... he could be a decently useful role player with a few relatively minor re-tweaks to his game is all.

He was good for us in the Covid season. He has some attributes that could make him a decent player. It's nothing "massive". But I do feel he could be worth his $2.3M QO if he actually fixed those issues that cropped up last season.

Not really sure where a sense of humor comes in, it's just generic debate about a depth player.

Tbh I think he is a player that has the tools and effort I just don't think he has the sense of the game to be able to process when he needs to use a certain tool.

 

[hido]

I never said he'd turn into a massive asset. In fact I mentioned both his pros and cons while addressing where his stats aligned with both the team and league at large. You on the other hand went from the hyperbolic "no value" ... backpedaled to complaining that he should have been scratched ... then conflated logic and feelings which are not the same at all.


My sense of humor is just fine as evidenced by the laughing I'm doing while reading this thread. Please, keep the chuckles coming.

I’m happy we traded Kunin. He added no value to the team moving forward. I hope it works out for him. I appreciate the work he did in the community.

Here’s a chuckle for you: I promise to buy a beer for every person I see in a Kunin sweater at Bridgestone next season (max of 100 for the season). I’m in 116.

 

[Olderfan]

Tbh I think he is a player that has the tools and effort I just don't think he has the sense of the game to be able to process when he needs to use a certain tool.

Not a knock on Kunin but if Tomasino is gonna move up , and that’s always been the plan, then somebody had to go. Simply the most expendable. If Tomasino can’t play top 6, more minutes, then that’s a real problem. Preds have laid a lot of future at his feet. This is his moment.

 

[Tysonson3]

Overall I think we got fair value for kunin in this trade, obviously his last season was below our expectations but for me this trade only makes sense if we can use his cap space as an improvement. Whether that is to sign a top 6 f in free agency or to make room for tomasino to get more minutes it doesn’t really matter. If we just stick with the status quo and bring back cousins or something to fill his spot then I don’t really see the point. Kunin would still be expected to bring in around 15 goals on a normal season and those have to be replaced somewhere.

 

[Viqsi]

Overall I think we got fair value for kunin in this trade, obviously his last season was below our expectations but for me this trade only makes sense if we can use his cap space as an improvement. Whether that is to sign a top 6 f in free agency or to make room for tomasino to get more minutes it doesn’t really matter. If we just stick with the status quo and bring back cousins or something to fill his spot then I don’t really see the point. Kunin would still be expected to bring in around 15 goals on a normal season and those have to be replaced somewhere.

These arguments always confuse me. It's not like trading him means there's going to be shifts where we only ice two defensemen and two forwards. The kids can and should move up. That's why they're here. That's kind of how hockey development works.

 

[Predsanddead24]

Kunin had a solid start to the season but was the worst forward on our team after the All Star break. Out of our forwards after the All Star break he had the lowest P/GP, lowest 5v5 points/60, worst GF%, most minor penalties taken, and worst penalty differential. A guy like Matt Luff was a better option than him towards the end of last year.

I can see the argument that you hold on and hope he could get back to how he was playing at the start of the year, but I also don’t mind just cutting bait and getting some value while we still can. It also opens up a spot for someone like Afanasyev to get a look or to use the extra space to sign someone else.

 

[101st_fan]

I’m happy we traded Kunin. He added no value to the team moving forward. I hope it works out for him. I appreciate the work he did in the community.

Here’s a chuckle for you: I promise to buy a beer for every person I see in a Kunin sweater at Bridgestone next season (max of 100 for the season). I’m in 116.

If Kunin was hoping for a raise and term, then moving on makes sense. At his QO for one year, his scoring is pretty much on par with the money based on current numbers across the league. What these boards rant about as an off season was 13 ES goals, .82 g/60 ... putting him in middle six scoring, again based on numbers across the league. His problems were failure to score on the PP (an issue for PP2 all season), and far too many minor penalties.

Between any new additions and remaining players stepping up, the team needs to account for 13 goals, 7 assists at ES ... factoring in roughly 1 of every 8 ES goals last season. That's the empirical gap left on the season scoresheet total.

 

[Softball99]

Kunin money goes to Trenin

 

[herzausstein]

Kind of wonder if leanord would go good with glass and Jeannot. Put him with two larger forwards with skill. Then Trenin sissons afanasyev with McCarron as 13th

 

[adsfan]

We sure love to eat our own.

Definitely a "Predators" thing in both senses of the word.

Somebody on the team has to be the most underperforming every season.

 

[Tysonson3]

These arguments always confuse me. It's not like trading him means there's going to be shifts where we only ice two defensemen and two forwards. The kids can and should move up. That's why they're here. That's kind of how hockey development works.

Well I’m certainly all for developing the kids and hopefully glass/afanasyev/others can take his place and thrive, but if they’re still in a position where they’re not ready for full time NHL work then this trade just creates a hole that needs to be filled one way or another.