Kraken 2024 Offseason chatter

[Fistfullofbeer]

There's only a few teams that aren't within $5m of the cap, so it's hard to say if it really means anything anymore. Rebuilding squads still sign players in UFA and spend it. Then there's a few that pile up LTIR players, in the most extreme case like Arizona.

I am talking about a time when Francis was their GM. Carolina was one of those teams that were not spending to the cap back then.

 

[majormajor]

I am talking about a time when Francis was their GM. Carolina was one of those teams that were not spending to the cap back then.

Right, but I mean it doesn't say as much about Seattle now that we're spending to the cap, because almost every team does. It would say something if we didn't.

 

[majormajor]

So the Geoff Baker column opined that it was pressure from above, because of declining fan interest, that led to Hakstol's firing. But it didn't present any hard information.

And now we're also hearing that the veteran players forced Hakstol out. I'm wondering if the Baker article is just fitting the firing into that old narrative without any new info, and that the pressure really was only from the players.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Right, but I mean it doesn't say as much about Seattle now that we're spending to the cap, because almost every team does. It would say something if we didn't.

I think we are both saying the same thing here. Judging Francis' moves, or lack thereof, in Carolina may not be fair because of their Internal Cap. But things are different in Seattle. Francis has been spending to the cap, and the expectation of the ownership is to succeed sooner rather than later. I think he needs to make the playoffs this season or his leash is going to get tighter.

So the Geoff Baker column opined that it was pressure from above, because of declining fan interest, that led to Hakstol's firing. But it didn't present any hard information.

And now we're also hearing that the veteran players forced Hakstol out. I'm wondering if the Baker article is just fitting the firing into that old narrative without any new info, and that the pressure really was only from the players.

I trust Emily Kaplan a lot more than Geoff Baker, and I believe she was the first person to have reported that.

 

[majormajor]

I trust Emily Kaplan a lot more than Geoff Baker, and I believe she was the first person to have reported that.

It feels strange when a good reporter like Kaplan comes along and actually gives us hard information about our team.

The local reporting on the Kraken is terrible.

 

[majormajor]

There are always lots of rumors that Zegras is on the outs in Anaheim. He's widely speculated to not be a Verbeek type of player, and they would have a stacked young forward core with or without him. He had a really rough year and the price might be pretty low.

If we have concerns about keeping butts in the seats, that is something that Zegras can help with. Incredibly skilled player that puts on a show. And an ideal complement to the type of centers we have.

I have my doubts that Francis would like Zegras any more than Verbeek does. But if he does, I imagine our 1st would be in the range of what it would take.

 

[The Marquis]

I'm not sure I trade a 1st for Zegras. I think he's overrated. Poor defensively (more than he should be), is mediocre on the power play and from what I understand, takes too many needless penalties. He hasn't proven enough.

 

[gstommylee]

I am talking about a time when Francis was their GM. Carolina was one of those teams that were not spending to the cap back then.

Francis at the time wasn't allowed to spend to the cap.

 

[gstommylee]

I think we are both saying the same thing here. Judging Francis' moves, or lack thereof, in Carolina may not be fair because of their Internal Cap. But things are different in Seattle. Francis has been spending to the cap, and the expectation of the ownership is to succeed sooner rather than later. I think he needs to make the playoffs this season or his leash is going to get tighter.

I trust Emily Kaplan a lot more than Geoff Baker, and I believe she was the first person to have reported that.

yea players saying we aren't happy and want out if hakstol stays isn't mere gripping as Baker suggest it is.

So the Geoff Baker column opined that it was pressure from above, because of declining fan interest, that led to Hakstol's firing. But it didn't present any hard information.

And now we're also hearing that the veteran players forced Hakstol out. I'm wondering if the Baker article is just fitting the firing into that old narrative without any new info, and that the pressure really was only from the players.

Yes he is. Baker basically writes his article based on which ever direction the wind is blowing and tends to be more doom/gloom. There's a reason why Seattle sports fans do not like him.

 

[majormajor]

I'm not sure I trade a 1st for Zegras. I think he's overrated. Poor defensively (more than he should be), is mediocre on the power play and from what I understand, takes too many needless penalties. He hasn't proven enough.

I always thought Zegras was overrated, though it seems the reputation has finally come down to reality.

Anyways I share a lot of concerns about the player. But then you look at taking Berkly Catton at #8, and I'm not sure the odds are better there.

 

[Scomerica]

So the Geoff Baker column opined that it was pressure from above, because of declining fan interest, that led to Hakstol's firing. But it didn't present any hard information.

And now we're also hearing that the veteran players forced Hakstol out. I'm wondering if the Baker article is just fitting the firing into that old narrative without any new info, and that the pressure really was only from the players.

Not sure if it needed hard info. The arena wasn't full for large parts of the season and it was at times pretty boring to watch. If they aren't going to reduce ticket prices to make it more accessible then it needs to be fun to watch or attract the glory hunters.

I think the move away from Root is also part of that. More eyes on the product.

 

[majormajor]

Not sure if it needed hard info. The arena wasn't full for large parts of the season and it was at times pretty boring to watch. If they aren't going to reduce ticket prices to make it more accessible then it needs to be fun to watch or attract the glory hunters.

I think the move away from Root is also part of that. More eyes on the product.

I'm not disputing that the empty seats would certainly cause some nerves higher up in the organization, but I just haven't seen any hard reporting that they're pressuring Francis to win now as a result of that. It could be, but I'd want to see hard info. It might look a little more obvious this summer.

 

[Scomerica]

I'm not disputing that the empty seats would certainly cause some nerves higher up in the organization, but I just haven't seen any hard reporting that they're pressuring Francis to win now as a result of that. It could be, but I'd want to see hard info. It might look a little more obvious this summer.

I think if they throw a ton of money at someone like Rod Brind'Amour and his staff and make some aggressive trades or free agent signings then it will be telling.

Apparently the hang up with Brind'Amour signing an extension at Carolina is to do with his staff also getting extended/raises. If the Kraken swoop in, it could be a statement.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

I'm not disputing that the empty seats would certainly cause some nerves higher up in the organization, but I just haven't seen any hard reporting that they're pressuring Francis to win now as a result of that. It could be, but I'd want to see hard info. It might look a little more obvious this summer.

Looking back at Francis end of season interview I believe he said something like "I talked to ownership and we came to the conclusion...." while talking about the roster and expectations.

I'm pretty sure no one is forcing him to do things but I'm pretty sure the message is clear that making the playoffs(like Francis said) is always the goal.

That does explain signing all those guys to medium sized contracts in hopes of being "competitive".

I think if they throw a ton of money at someone like Rod Brind'Amour and his staff and make some aggressive trades or free agent signings then it will be telling.

Apparently the hang up with Brind'Amour signing an extension at Carolina is to do with his staff also getting extended/raises. If the Kraken swoop in, it could be a statement.

I'm pretty sure they'll bring in a more established, NHL veterand coach.

Hakstol was more of a wild card and they've decided that they wanted to move away from him.

So logically the next guy's probably the opposite of that meaning a more experienced guy that is probably a bit more hands on than Hakstol.

 

[majormajor]

That does explain signing all those guys to medium sized contracts in hopes of being "competitive".

It feels extra hard to parse for me because we don't all agree on what makes us competitive. Like extending Jordan Eberle types of players is also consistent with "riding it out" for me. You can do that while slowly building the prospect pool. And that seems to be the way most lower end teams operate, they don't stop spending to the cap. I'll need to see something big, the likes of which Francis has never done, here or in Carolina, to believe that we've deviated from that approach.

 

[Scomerica]

It feels extra hard to parse for me because we don't all agree on what makes us competitive. Like extending Jordan Eberle types of players is also consistent with "riding it out" for me. You can do that while slowly building the prospect pool. And that seems to be the way most lower end teams operate, they don't stop spending to the cap. I'll need to see something big, the likes of which Francis has never done, here or in Carolina, to believe that we've deviated from that approach.

The closest seems to be Grubauer when we had dreiger and vanecek. It seems to stick out as against the norm. I wonder if ownership forced it thinking they'd be set on goalie for years

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

It feels extra hard to parse for me because we don't all agree on what makes us competitive. Like extending Jordan Eberle types of players is also consistent with "riding it out" for me. You can do that while slowly building the prospect pool. And that seems to be the way most lower end teams operate, they don't stop spending to the cap. I'll need to see something big, the likes of which Francis has never done, here or in Carolina, to believe that we've deviated from that approach.

100%. That is exactly what I thought with the Eberle signing.

I have been saying the same thing. Francis has never gone for it. He has done a great job building the team from the ground up, both in Carolina and Seattle. But if he needs to progress as a GM, he needs to take that next step and know when and how to be aggressive.

 

[Irie]

It feels extra hard to parse for me because we don't all agree on what makes us competitive. Like extending Jordan Eberle types of players is also consistent with "riding it out" for me. You can do that while slowly building the prospect pool. And that seems to be the way most lower end teams operate, they don't stop spending to the cap. I'll need to see something big, the likes of which Francis has never done, here or in Carolina, to believe that we've deviated from that approach.

That Eberle extension was terrible. Not the way you build a winning team by overpaying declining one dimensinal wingers to 2 year deals like that.

Almost all of Francis' UFA contracts that he has negotiated for this club have aged extremely poorly. Gru, Bura, Eberle, Oleksiak, Driedger, Dumoulin, Schwartz.

His drafting is very solid and his negotiating with his RFAs has been outstanding since his Canes days, but someone has to keep him out of the UFA market, because he has a serious blind-spot in that area.

He is very willing to piss away cap overpaying middling UFA guys, but will trade or let solid RFAs walk if they want fair market deals. He really has to adjust his perception of what is adequate and what isn't in both of those areas.

 

[majormajor]

That Eberle extension was terrible. Not the way you build a winning team by overpaying declining one dimensinal wingers to 2 year deals like that.

Almost all of Francis' UFA contracts that he has negotiated for this club have aged extremely poorly. Gru, Bura, Eberle, Oleksiak, Driedger, Dumoulin, Schwartz.

His drafting is very solid and his negotiating with his RFAs has been outstanding since his Canes days, but someone has to keep him out of the UFA market, because he has a serious blind-spot in that area.

He is very willing to piss away cap overpaying middling UFA guys, but will trade or let solid RFAs walk if they want fair market deals. He really has to adjust his perception of what is adequate and what isn't in both of those areas.

We can take for granted that we're going to use our cap one way or the other.

I also didn't like that Eberle deal, but maybe we should talk about where we want to spend it?

 

[Irie]

We can take for granted that we're going to use our cap one way or the other.

I also didn't like that Eberle deal, but maybe we should talk about where we want to spend it?

I think Francis should be very careful spending it on complimentary wingers. This team needs a couple of line drivers something fierce.

Picking up players that may have played with extremely talented linemates recently and put up decent numbers are prime candidates to have their production drop off substantially when removed from their previous team. Guentzel is likely a candidate who's production in Seattle would be disappointing. Great player, but take him away from Crosby or Jarvis and Aho and slot him next to Beniers and I doubt he's anywhere near worth what it would cost to lure him to Seattle.

This team really needs an elite top line center, but procuring one of those is not really something you can just go out and do, you sorta have to luck into them usually. In the meantime, look for short-term stopgaps that your scouting staff identifies as having traits that you believe may translate into chemistry with your current players is probably realistically all that can be done.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

It feels extra hard to parse for me because we don't all agree on what makes us competitive. Like extending Jordan Eberle types of players is also consistent with "riding it out" for me. You can do that while slowly building the prospect pool. And that seems to be the way most lower end teams operate, they don't stop spending to the cap. I'll need to see something big, the likes of which Francis has never done, here or in Carolina, to believe that we've deviated from that approach.

Yeah, I'm very curious as to what Francis does.
Firing Hakstol seems to show, IMO, that there's pressure on him to produce and win right now.

Like you've said, we have different oppinions on what exactly should be done.

Though, like I've stated many times I want him to take a direction and go for that.
And if that direction is win now and go big I'm very curious to see if he can actually make that happen or not.

Trading for those players(Marner was mentioned here before) is a whole different level(of negotiating) compared to trading a cash strapped team two mid round picks and cap relief for Oliver Bjorkstrand or anything he's done so far in his GM career.

That Eberle extension was terrible. Not the way you build a winning team by overpaying declining one dimensinal wingers to 2 year deals like that.

Almost all of Francis' UFA contracts that he has negotiated for this club have aged extremely poorly. Gru, Bura, Eberle, Oleksiak, Driedger, Dumoulin, Schwartz.

His drafting is very solid and his negotiating with his RFAs has been outstanding since his Canes days, but someone has to keep him out of the UFA market, because he has a serious blind-spot in that area.

He is very willing to piss away cap overpaying middling UFA guys, but will trade or let solid RFAs walk if they want fair market deals. He really has to adjust his perception of what is adequate and what isn't in both of those areas.

I think that Eberle extension was him looking at the free agent class and realizing that unless he has to rebuild(retool next season(which I don't think he has) he needs production and re-signing Eberle at that number felt probably better than trying to sign a similar winger in free agency.

His signings haven't been that great(besides the Larsson one) and he's way better at extending players(Dunn,McCann) like you've said. But that's also not surprising given the nature of free agency in the NHL.

Free agency is basically paying those guys in their late 20's and early 30's for their past production and hoping they can give you anything close to that for at least half of the duration of that contract you sign them to.

That's why I'm not a fan of free agency and going big during it.

Overall we're basically experiencing the same thing with Francis the Hurricanes did as he's petty good at laying the ground but a bit too conservative to take the next step.

So let's see if he can take that step or else he could be gone a year from now.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

That Eberle extension was terrible. Not the way you build a winning team by overpaying declining one dimensinal wingers to 2 year deals like that.

Almost all of Francis' UFA contracts that he has negotiated for this club have aged extremely poorly. Gru, Bura, Eberle, Oleksiak, Driedger, Dumoulin, Schwartz.

His drafting is very solid and his negotiating with his RFAs has been outstanding since his Canes days, but someone has to keep him out of the UFA market, because he has a serious blind-spot in that area.

He is very willing to piss away cap overpaying middling UFA guys, but will trade or let solid RFAs walk if they want fair market deals. He really has to adjust his perception of what is adequate and what isn't in both of those areas.

The Eberle extension seems fair in a vacuum. I think he has evolved from a one-dimensional winger to a leader who tries to play a 200-foot game. Yes, his offense is declining, but he is a good mentor to have.

My problem is that the signing makes little sense in relation to our roster makeup. We have too many middle-six wingers on the roster. Signing Eberle would be okay if we didn't already have the likes of Bura, Schwartz, Gourde, and Tolvy on the roster. Now, if he plans to move 1+ of those forwards in the off-season, then this is an understandable move. If not, then we are in the same situation as we were this season with no roster places to even improve the roster.

I know this is hindight, but I agree with you about all his FA signings looking pretty bad. I mentioned this yesterday as well but he needs to grow as a GM and learn how to take the team to the next level (did not do that in Carolina and yet to be see with Seattle). If not, it's his job on the line. Unfortunately, for us, it's also our teams future.

 

[Sad People]

Wonder what the chances of Draisaitl reaching FA in a year or 2.

 

[majormajor]

Wonder what the chances of Draisaitl reaching FA in a year or 2.

Low. And the only possibility I see for him to leave Edmonton is if he is going somewhere with an even better chance to win than in Edmonton. We're going to have a hard time making the argument that Seattle is that place.

 

[Scomerica]

Worst kept secret ever