Recalled/Assigned: Klefbom Recalled, Aulie Recalled (Ference Suspension), Hunt Clears Waivers & Assigned

[Replacement*]

While I fundementally agree with you I am extremely surprized it's u saying stuff like this.

I would say ganger and Eberle are extremely similar players. With Eberle being slightly better in every imaginable way. Imagine putting Eberle as a centre how painfully obviously he would be inadequate. Eberle versus kopitar, Thornton, or getzlaf sound better or worse than gagner head to head as a center? Pretty much the same.

If you can see eberles faults why can't you see Gagners?

I can't see Gagners faults? Not sure where you got that impression other than people attempting to typecast my comments. Gagner was pure ****** last season. Posted that here 50 times probably. I could say it 50 more. There would still be a meme here suggesting that I have a different and selective take.

That said, and as I stated earlier the Oilers gave Gagner some real **** assignments through the years. Nillson and Cogs in rookie year (can you imagine, 2 rookies and a career floater on the same topsix line) Its amazing they weren't scorched alive.

Move on to carrying not ready for primetimes like Omark, Paajarvi, Yak. Gagner has been *gifted* these kinds of assignments by the club because he was a player that always smiled, never complained, and tried to fight through it.


AS I mentioned Eberle hasn't had to carry anyone. he;s been gifted a nonstop role with two #1 drafts. Eberle also had the advantage of starting his NHL career much later and getting the benefit of more prep time for pro hockey. Gagner was cast into it weeks after turning 18.

Gagner as you mention also being a Center which is more to overcome especially given how centers are built in the WC.

But lastly I embrace looks like this due to board double standards in respect of untouchable players who perhaps are also not so great.

 

[ScrillaVilla]

Thanks for the research into it! Certainly makes the behindthenet stats a little more questionable. Players who are going to be out there down a goal (Eberle for example) are going to have inflated numbers against. Sort of reinforces my belief that the behindthenet numbers are more an indication of a bad team than a bad defensive player. Bad teams, trailing more frequently give up more EN goals.

It would seem logical to me that since its a inherently a team (or single line) stat that a single individual can only be partially and indirectly accounted for in the actual measure regardless of whose numbers you use. WYWO would be neat to see, get a little confirmation on whether Eberle tends to improve, remain neutral, or perform worse when on the ice with certain players and whether those players are better or worse when he is not on the ice.

Also, on ice Sv% would be a big factor. So its definitely hard to say for sure what effect Eberle has on the team from a defensive stand point.

 

[Soundwave]

Eberle is a considerably better finisher than Gagner, has better hands than Gagner, and is a slightly better skater.

He basically does everything a little better and has a far better shot/hands in tight.

We can only afford to have one player like this on the team, so Eberle is the obvious pick but two similar players in the top six just wasn't workable. Gagner is basically everything we don't need any more of on this roster.

He occasionally showed heart, I'll give him that, but it didn't really make any tangible difference in the W/L column. Good guy off the ice, nice teammate though. But none of that stuff really helps us win hockey games.

And Sam had plenty of opportunities to succeed here including extended playing time with virtually every good forward we've had here (including Hall and Eberle). There's no issue with that.

He's just not a star caliber player and the type of player he is is a tough fit into our top six given that Eberle is already there and Nugent Hopkins is not a physical type of player either.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Haha, I was just joking about how the discussion was all about Eberle when the topic totally was something else.

Gotcha!

 

[Vagabond]

As badly as this team is managed, LOL at those who think that a consensus of fans would do a better job. Think that things can't get worse? They can, and fan management would be worse.

Riiiiiiiiiiight!

 

[McJadeddog]

Behindthenet felt that separating it out also contributes to off numbers. For instance GF are ALSO included for empty net goals. So separating out GA, while not GF, gives a distorted look at a players +/- differential. Moreso when you consider the instances of either team pulling goalie and the numerical exclusion/inclusion involved.

Separating BOTH empty net GF and GA is further abstraction and results in those numbers not being included in any sample or category.

Plus obviously pulled goalie is still EV, it isn't a PP, its closer to 5 on 5 than any other category. So they leave it all in.

But heres the kicker. No Pts stats found anywhere in the world EXCLUDES pts had while the goalie is pulled. Something that Eberle has also been a prime beneficiary of.

But threres never any shortage of people pointing out how many pts Eberle makes in a year. how many of those are empty net oriented either when the Oilers pull their goalie or the other club does?

Like I said earlier I prefer the raw numbers without abstraction. behindthenet provides that.


Plus I would wonder more about information that doesn't just take the raw numbers but calculates differently than the NHL script numbers offered. This then involves tabulating the exclusions/inclusions of empty net goal instance both for and against and for both opponent clubs. I'm not aware that this would be taken from script. It could be instance by instance excluded.


Once information starts to be manipulated I trust the accuracy of it less.

i would much rather the numbers not include GF or GA for EN situations, as they aren't ES.... i don't know how you can say that 6 on 5 is closer to ES than it is a PP, that makes no sense whatsoever... additionally, the hockeyanalysis doesn't include EN GF in its GF/60 5v5 stat, which is exactly what i would want to see .... i don't care if a guy is capable of scoring into an empty net, it doesn't mean anything really, and certainly isn't an indication of the players skill level

i'd be willing to bet pretty much everything i own that the oilers had a lot more EN GA than EN GF in any of the last 5 seasons

 

[CupofOil]

jesus, i knew he was terrible in his own zone, but i had never bothered to look up the stat... that is quite the damning stat, so damning that i almost didn't believe it, so i went and looked it up

eberle has never been above 3 in his career.... so i'm not sure where you are getting this from... maybe you are looking at GA/60 ES, where the site i was using (stats.hockeyanalysis.com) uses GA/60 5v5.... at any point, he is still TERRIBLE by this metric, but is also very consistent in it, lol, for whatever good that does... his career low is 2.37, which is this year, and his career high was 2.87, which was 2 years ago in the shortened season... he tends to be right around the 2.8 mark it seems, which is pathetic btw, and is usually good for around 500th-600th in the league overall (for players with 200+ mins played at 5v5)

but to be fair, hall has had almost exactly the same GA/60 5v5 stats as eberle over both their careers, and nobody *****es about hall's d-game really

Hall doesn't play much defense either. If you watch both closely, you would see that neither lends much puck support to the D and are almost always cheating for offense. It's pretty much 3 on 5 in the D zone when the top line is on the ice.

It's a big reason why their line consistently gets scored on so much and until the top line starts outscoring their opponents on a consistent basis, the Oilers will always be cellar dwellers.

 

[Hockey Nightmare]

I also believe that "management by fan consensus" would be a terrible idea. And I believe that hiring an amateur GM primarily because he's your pal and is connected to the organization, not because he's the most qualified candidate, is a terrible idea. And I believe that hiring a rookie NHL coach basically off the cuff without a proper search for the position is a terrible idea . And I believe that keeping the same leader of hockey operations on throughout years and years of ineptitude is a terrible idea. See how this works?

 

[Beerfish]

I also believe that "management by fan consensus" would be a terrible idea. And I believe that hiring an amateur GM primarily because he's your pal and is connected to the organization, not because he's the most qualified candidate, is a terrible idea. And I believe that hiring a rookie NHL coach basically on the cuff without a proper search for the position is a terrible idea . And I believe that keeping the same leader of hockey operations on throughout years and years of ineptitude is a terrible idea. See how this works?

Fan consensus perhaps not. Management by any of about a 20-30 individual fans would be better. All that would be missing is about 6 months of being exposed to hockey management. Our management team does things that even a moderately prudent hockey fan would never do. And does not do things even a moderately prudent hockey fan would do.

 

[ZJuice]

Fan consensus perhaps not. Management by any of about a 20-30 individual fans would be better. All that would be missing is about 6 months of being exposed to hockey management. Our management team does things that even a moderately prudent hockey fan would never do. And does not do things even a moderately prudent hockey fan would do.

Agreed.

Players would have to start playing if they truly wanted to be here as well, since Katz doesn't seem to watch any games yet is rumoured to dictate who gets to play.

 

[Aerchon]

I can't see Gagners faults? Not sure where you got that impression other than people attempting to typecast my comments. Gagner was pure ****** last season. Posted that here 50 times probably. I could say it 50 more. There would still be a meme here suggesting that I have a different and selective take.

That said, and as I stated earlier the Oilers gave Gagner some real **** assignments through the years. Nillson and Cogs in rookie year (can you imagine, 2 rookies and a career floater on the same topsix line) Its amazing they weren't scorched alive.

Move on to carrying not ready for primetimes like Omark, Paajarvi, Yak. Gagner has been *gifted* these kinds of assignments by the club because he was a player that always smiled, never complained, and tried to fight through it.


AS I mentioned Eberle hasn't had to carry anyone. he;s been gifted a nonstop role with two #1 drafts. Eberle also had the advantage of starting his NHL career much later and getting the benefit of more prep time for pro hockey. Gagner was cast into it weeks after turning 18.

Gagner as you mention also being a Center which is more to overcome especially given how centers are built in the WC.

But lastly I embrace looks like this due to board double standards in respect of untouchable players who perhaps are also not so great.

You've been extremely high on Gagner for a long time. It's good to see you stepping away from that at least a bit. I honestly thought you figured Gagner a good player even last year.

He has been given a short straw in Edmonton and who knows what coulda, shoulda, might have happened if this organization wasn't terrible. But. It's over and in hind sight Gagner only looks worse and worse. Making excuses or trying to find solid reasoning for his lack or progress in the NHL is extremely useless.

I think he will get better on Pho, but his next deal will be a large scale back. Much like Gilbert when he left the Oilers. He will be a fringe NHLer until he can establish at least a bit of credibility.

Only Oiler management seem to value one dimensional undersized forwards and that is exactly what Gagner is. He will have to work his butt off to be considered anything else.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

The fans here are ready to deal Eberle for kibbles and bits. Keep that in mind when saying a fan consensus would be better.

 

[Seedling]

The fans here are ready to deal Eberle for kibbles and bits. Keep that in mind when saying a fan consensus would be better.

A top pairing D man is "kibbles and bits"?