Kitchener Rangers 2021-22 Season Thread (Part 3)

[EON]

Continued from: Kitchener Rangers 2021-22 Season Thread (Part 2)

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[JoelKRangers]

So no Valade trade, interesting. Hopefully he'll be a big part of the team next year if the Rangers do go for it. I guess there's 4 OA's for next season with Serpa, Valade, Cajan and now Harper. It's still a long way away but any ideas on who will be the odd one out not coming back next year? Is Harper just here this season to fill the void on D?

 

[Coaches Coroner]

So no Valade trade, interesting. Hopefully he'll be a big part of the team next year if the Rangers do go for it. I guess there's 4 OA's for next season with Serpa, Valade, Cajan and now Harper. It's still a long way away but any ideas on who will be the odd one out not coming back next year? Is Harper just here this season to fill the void on D?

Harper looks like a warm body for this year. If we do go for it I'd imagine both of those guys leave; rare to use an OA and Import slot on the same player in a go-for-it type scenario.

 

[Tim Wallach]

I assume Valade was kept as they need some quality OAs next year. Like Coaches Corner said, Cajan is unlikely to fill an import and OA slot. And Harper is not of the calibre you'd ideally keep in a year you want to compete. So he may be a placeholder until MM sorts it out at the first OA deadline. But you can see how moving Valade would have left them seeking probably two.

 

[Ward Cornell]

Not sure on this "go for it next year" ....need some remarkable improvements first and deeper (much deeper) draft cupboard.
Seems like the team is ok with treading water and happy with a round or two of playoff gates.

 

[GeoBlue]

Not sure on this "go for it next year" ....need some remarkable improvements first and deeper (much deeper) draft cupboard.
Seems like the team is ok with treading water and happy with a round or two of playoff gates.

I am absolutely with you. I've said all along that next year does not look so promising with what we have. We just went a 3 game weekend with just 5 goals scored. Take away Cajan, who will probably be gone next year, and we are in trouble. We were just as bad without Xman in the lineup earlier in the year and now we are missing McDonnell and much, much weaker.

Yes, I am going to skip the whole pandemic factor as all the teams are in the same boat. Development has been brought up and so has coaching. Only area I may have overlooked was posted by someone earlier where they stated that the 04's were a weak crop for ALL the teams. My thoughts earlier in the year were to perhaps build around Rehkopf and that year's crop as Leblanc's and company have fallen short. Sure, there is a possibility that they might find their stride but, again, I am sure other teams are saying the same thing about their 04's. And how are the 05's doing so much better?

I really don't see this team being as a "going for it next year". They don't seem that strong. Sure, we have many quality players playing elsewhere right now but gambling on all of them coming over next year is bad management.

Ward, you mention the cupboard? With what I am saying in mind, imagine what a guy like Pinelli would bring? I know many here would not trade him but who is here to support in in the 03 department? Sop? Martin? I just don't see it.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

I am absolutely with you. I've said all along that next year does not look so promising with what we have. We just went a 3 game weekend with just 5 goals scored. Take away Cajan, who will probably be gone next year, and we are in trouble. We were just as bad without Xman in the lineup earlier in the year and now we are missing McDonnell and much, much weaker.

Yes, I am going to skip the whole pandemic factor as all the teams are in the same boat. Development has been brought up and so has coaching. Only area I may have overlooked was posted by someone earlier where they stated that the 04's were a weak crop for ALL the teams. My thoughts earlier in the year were to perhaps build around Rehkopf and that year's crop as Leblanc's and company have fallen short. Sure, there is a possibility that they might find their stride but, again, I am sure other teams are saying the same thing about their 04's. And how are the 05's doing so much better?

I really don't see this team being as a "going for it next year". They don't seem that strong. Sure, we have many quality players playing elsewhere right now but gambling on all of them coming over next year is bad management.

Ward, you mention the cupboard? With what I am saying in mind, imagine what a guy like Pinelli would bring? I know many here would not trade him but who is here to support in in the 03 department? Sop? Martin? I just don't see it.

I feel like Parsons is close to Cajan and will be able to take the reigns in what would normally be his 3rd year of eligibility next year. Cajan has had a few stellar games, but he has a tendency to make a big stop then let in a stinker.

We won't know if we are going for it until next year, but even if they want to make a competitive playoff push (not necessarily championship), using an OA and Import slot on Cajan doesn't make sense, especially if you're trying to lure Mesar and Odelius next season.

 

[K2]

I really don't see this team being as a "going for it next year".

We'll know where we're at in 11 months

Right now we have Schmidt and Pinelli who are good to GO.
Cajan probably plays pro in Europe and we have to nail both our import selections.
I suspect we start with Valade and Serpa as OA locks and be looking for a deal on an OA skater or goalie (like Culina, ADB ... VanBuskirk).
Need major luck with NCAA committed guys reporting in 2022, 1 is good 2 would be great.
Need Valade, Serpa, Fishman, Motew & Rehkopf to emerge as a force and the LeBlancs to get on the score sheet too.
Need to draft a stud first rounder, with what could be an early pick, and generally do well in the draft.
Might flip the stud first rounder and whatever picks and plugs we have for top 19yo talent if we're close at the break (the all-in).
Add solid assistant/associate coach to run offense and special teams.

 

[JoelKRangers]

You guys are probably right that they won't go for it next year based on the players they have left. But in the case they did go for it, you're also right that it wouldn't make sense to keep Cajan so they would probably go out and get someone like Culina or Ingham (not sure who that comparable goalie is now in the league). I know it probably won't happen but it would be sweet winning the Mem Cup exactly 20 years after they last won (2003 & 2023 Champs) but I shouldn't get ahead of myself.

I feel like Parsons is close to Cajan and will be able to take the reigns in what would normally be his 3rd year of eligibility next year. Cajan has had a few stellar games, but he has a tendency to make a big stop then let in a stinker.

We won't know if we are going for it until next year, but even if they want to make a competitive playoff push (not necessarily championship), using an OA and Import slot on Cajan doesn't make sense, especially if you're trying to lure Mesar and Odelius next season.

 

[Tim Wallach]

Not sure on this "go for it next year" ....need some remarkable improvements first and deeper (much deeper) draft cupboard.
Seems like the team is ok with treading water and happy with a round or two of playoff gates.

I totally agree Ward. When I’m honest with myself, I don’t see anywhere near a championship team amongst the assets already on the team. Not only would it require massive improvement from current players, but it’d require them to leapfrog teams like London who will arguably have 9 or 10 players as good or better than our current top 2.

I’m just being a realist. And I don’t know that it’s them being content with a playoff round so much as it’s that they don’t know how to do better. They have lost the plot and scouting is a major weakness.

 

[Ward Cornell]

I totally agree Ward. When I’m honest with myself, I don’t see anywhere near a championship team amongst the assets already on the team. Not only would it require massive improvement from current players, but it’d require them to leapfrog teams like London who will arguably have 9 or 10 players as good or better than our current top 2.

I’m just being a realist. And I don’t know that it’s them being content with a playoff round so much as it’s that they don’t know how to do better. They have lost the plot and scouting is a major weakness.

Who was the last coach hire the Rangers had with any head coaching experience let alone success?...it was PD 20 years ago...yes, 20 long yrs ago. Since then there has been Spott, Troy Smith, Mike VanRyn (seems liked a good choice but after one season who really knew), Jay McKee and now Mike McKenzie. Honestly, this is deja vu all over again for the dark days before PD was hired. Not sure why the Rangers are spinning their tires on inexperienced head coaches while they should be able to go and compete for any coaches available for the CHL.
Until the lockdowns I use to enjoy attending the practices but was astounded at the lack of on ice skill development, it just seemed constant line rush after line rush under most of those coaches. There was one yr exception when Daniel Tkachuk was here as an assistant coach and there was a good 45 mins on skill development. I cant remember who he was an asst coach under...was that VanRyn?
I remember hearing Steve Beinkowski about 5 yrs ago saying that the Rangers are as much as development team for coaches as they are for the players. IMHO, this isn't serving the players well.

 

[Tim Wallach]

Very interesting Ward. I always believe you can tell what the practices are like from how the team plays. You can tell this team does little on individual skill development.

It is clear that line rushes and basic, repetitive team drills are all they do because everyone does the same things over and over and nobody seems to enhance their own personal strengths to play specific roles.

You talk about Deboer and I could go on at length about how much better he was than anyone since but one of the absolute keys he always preached was to clearly define roles and help each guy be the best he could be in that role. Ever since, every coach has looked at every player as just one more cog in the wheel and when you treat them as equal, interchangeable parts, you get a vanilla team.

 

[K2]

I cant remember who he was an asst coach under...was that VanRyn?

Yes - under Van Ryn (2015), Daniel Tkaczuk was Assistant Coach and McKee was Associate Coach while MM moved from Assistant Coach to Assistant GM.

 

[rangersblues]

Very interesting Ward. I always believe you can tell what the practices are like from how the team plays. You can tell this team does little on individual skill development.

It is clear that line rushes and basic, repetitive team drills are all they do because everyone does the same things over and over and nobody seems to enhance their own personal strengths to play specific roles.

You talk about Deboer and I could go on at length about how much better he was than anyone since but one of the absolute keys he always preached was to clearly define roles and help each guy be the best he could be in that role. Ever since, every coach has looked at every player as just one more cog in the wheel and when you treat them as equal, interchangeable parts, you get a vanilla team.

Even watching pregame warmups. A few years ago I recall watching Marner, Domi, Debricat, Strome etc always working on stick handling drills off to the side. Most of our guys just slap the puck off the boards.

 

[Tim Wallach]

Even watching pregame warmups. A few years ago I recall watching Marner, Domi, Debricat, Strome etc working on stick handling drills off to the side. Most of our guys just slap the puck off the boards.

Definitely. There is a pride in personal skill development that leads to confidence and innovation. Doing anything possible to give yourself and your team a competitive advantage. What Kitchener does is robotic and defeatist.

 

[K2]

You talk about Deboer and I could go on at length about how much better he was than anyone since

100% and we were lucky to have him pass through here. I imagine PD might be too intense for kids these days, even back then being teamed with Spott was key.

Not sure why the Rangers are spinning their tires on inexperienced head coaches while they should be able to go and compete for any coaches available for the CHL

Whenever we get back to making money, I'd expect that we hire a HC and have him bring along his assistant(s). We've obviously passed on some experienced guys before and that was the Bienkowski then Hiebert MO after Spott left despite people on the boards thinking we'd land a Babcock or Maurice level guy after we'd bragged about having 100s of impeccable resumes.

Surely MM & Birch have some guys in mind but who? I suspect we've passed on George Burnett before and he's among a short list of formidable candidates having done it all with AHL & OHL success, even spent time in the show and stepped into some tough situations like Flint. George turns 60 this season so he's got a few more years ... or 15 in Kilrea years ... but there's a lot of questions too since he's been running the whole HC/GM role much of the time, has some baggage, etc. I thought guys like Chris Lazary or Alan Letang might have been considered on their way up and we had one of the best 'next step' guys here in Andreas Karlsson too who might have teamed well with MM as General Manager. MM has been here 10 years now and could well have other opportunities that he'll follow before long too.

 

[GobigorGohome]

Thought your PP moved the puck really well against London.

 

[Tim Wallach]

100% and we were lucky to have him pass through here. I imagine PD might be too intense for kids these days, even back then being teamed with Spott was key.

You might be right there as I know some of Deboer's tactics would be pushing it with today's dynamic. But I see it as not much different than Hunter. Strong-minded players who want to achieve their goals appreciate coaches who are tough, fair and knowledgeable. With guys like that, you see masters of development. They take some players who would peak at junior B without them and make them into NHLers or at least pros.

I'd like to think if I were a player, I'd be okay getting yelled at and benched here and there if I knew the guy doing it had a great track record of turning players into something.

As for HC candidates, I was surprised Lazary has never come on our radar, but I do hope you're right about getting a good, qualified HC in as soon as the pandemic economics allow for it. We owe it to the players first and fans second.

 

[EvenSteven]

A lot of the concerns raised here goes back to coaching.

We’re one of the richest organizations in the CHL and we have historically taken the cheap way out regarding the head coaching position.

Except for the DeBoer hire, this organization has taken the cheap way out in hiring it’s head coach going way back to the 80’s and Tom Barrett. Starting with the Barrett firing, absolutely every time, the position has been filled with an assistant who is just happy to have the job, salary be damned. Only Spott may have had some leverage regarding salary.

And if we’re counting, the DeBoer hire produced two league championships and one Memorial Cup in seven seasons with him at the helm.

Every other hire since the mid 80’s has produced zero championships and zero Memorial Cup wins.

Just saying.

Time for MM to be given the ok from the powers that be to hire the best. experienced coach available. Preferably with an extensive track record at this level and with no restrictions on salary.

If we want to have the best chance to attract these NCAA bound players that we draft and have the rights to, one area we are competing in with the NCAA is solid coaching. For example, Hunter B has a choice to make in the off season. Go to Michigan and that well coached machine where he’ll pretty much know who his coach will be for his time there, or report to Kitchener where he’ll be coached, at least today, by a first time head coach who may or may not be in place in September.

Anyone want to make a prediction on how this is likely to go?

 

[EvenSteven]

Not sure on this "go for it next year" ....need some remarkable improvements first and deeper (much deeper) draft cupboard.
Seems like the team is ok with treading water and happy with a round or two of playoff gates.

Next year will be a go for it year whether we agree it will be here or not. At least that’s how I see MM looking at it. That could change by the end of November 2022.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

MM is a very good GM, I think he wanted to take a gamble and see if the spark he brought in his initial stint as coach was something he carry forward, so far it hasn't to this season. I hope he's realized that and plans to look for a head coach. I'd rather have a very good GM focused on those duties, and a good to very good HC doing the same on their side of things, than have a good GM and passable coach. I think MM is better at the GM job (or can be) when he has the time to do some leg work scouting, something the dual HC/GM job doesn't allow.

 

[Tim Wallach]

A lot of the concerns raised here goes back to coaching.

We’re one of the richest organizations in the CHL and we have historically taken the cheap way out regarding the head coaching position.

Except for the DeBoer hire, this organization has taken the cheap way out in hiring it’s head coach going way back to the 80’s and Tom Barrett. Starting with the Barrett firing, absolutely every time, the position has been filled with an assistant who is just happy to have the job, salary be damned. Only Spott may have had some leverage regarding salary.

And if we’re counting, the DeBoer hire produced two league championships and one Memorial Cup in seven seasons with him at the helm.

Every other hire since the mid 80’s has produced zero championships and zero Memorial Cup wins.

Just saying.

Time for MM to be given the ok from the powers that be to hire the best. experienced coach available. Preferably with an extensive track record at this level and with no restrictions on salary.

If we want to have the best chance to attract these NCAA bound players that we draft and have the rights to, one area we are competing in with the NCAA is solid coaching. For example, Hunter B has a choice to make in the off season. Go to Michigan and that well coached machine where he’ll pretty much know who his coach will be for his time there, or report to Kitchener where he’ll be coached, at least today, by a first time head coach who may or may not be in place in September.

Anyone want to make a prediction on how this is likely to go?

I agree with everything you said Even. My only question is how the pandemic will affect the finances? One of the most obvious ways to make up for the losses is to keep MM wearing both hats and/or hiring a cheap replacement.

When fans want a better product and stay away, it's a double edged sword as the coffers shrink. Of course, this team should have done far better on coaches during the halcyon days of 7000 fans per game. There was no excuse for half measures and assistant-promotions then.

 

[rangersblues]

Next year will be a go for it year whether we agree it will be here or not. At least that’s how I see MM looking at it. That could change by the end of November 2022.

I hope we don't try to manufacture another "go for it" year by trades like we did in 2017-18. Even though it got us to a conference final, we built that team mostly by trades and we've been digging out ever since. You need to have a solid foundation to begin, not just one or two good players.

 

[rangersblues]

I agree with everything you said Even. My only question is how the pandemic will affect the finances? One of the most obvious ways to make up for the losses is to keep MM wearing both hats and/or hiring a cheap replacement.

When fans want a better product and stay away, it's a double edged sword as the coffers shrink. Of course, this team should have done far better on coaches during the halcyon days of 7000 fans per game. There was no excuse for half measures and assistant-promotions then.

I think they got greedy and complacent thinking fans were showing up no matter what. There was a big waiting list for season tickets. I blame it on Bienkowski.

 

[EvenSteven]

I hope we don't try to manufacture another "go for it" year by trades like we did in 2017-18. Even though it got us to a conference final, we built that team mostly by trades and we've been digging out ever since. You need to have a solid foundation to begin, not just one or two good players.

… and, going into next year, we don’t have as good a foundation as we did going into 17-18. And we had, I believe, a much better stockpile of high picks in the bank.