KHL Revenues/Attendance

[cska78]

There is talk about the new arena in Ufa. Will build a new arena in Moscow.
http://www.hockeyland.ru/news/17918.html

In the future there will be new projects. may be a new arena in Saint Petersburg. City rich , and attendance at the maximum.
There are plans to build a new arena in Astana.

And in Sochi will be built two arenas. One disassemble and transported to another city.

I keep thinking, how they gonna disassemble a whole arena..y don't they just build one in Krasnodar and keep it there.

 

[Artemia]

For people saying 6K average for KHL is bad. It's not really.

First, this is not the best league in the world. Even Russians knows that. NHL is the best league in the world, which also means bigger draw power.

NHL has 3 times higher average attendance but
NHL is in a 350 million people market. KHL is around 150 million.

So in reality it's not even twice as big population difference taken into account.

Some teams are also hindered by smaller arenas.

Overall, KHL is doing great. It's total attendance numbers even beat the top russian soccer league.

Russian Premier League football Russia 2008 3,200,240

Kontinental Hockey League 2008/09 3,885,000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attendance_figures_at_domestic_professional_sports_leagues

 

[Yakushev72]

Yakushev 72

Pathetic attendances. If you look at these figures you would think that hockey is becoming a second-rate sport in Russia.

Just simply looking at attendance figures doesn't tell the story, in my opinion. The KHL owners and investors knew very well before they got into the venture that they were not going to make a quick killing in terms of profit. They knew it would take years of financial losses before the league developed to the point where every ticket is sold before the start of the season and huge profits are being reaped. As much as anything, I think there was a lot of impetus from Putin and other bigwigs to upgrade the quality of domestic professional hockey, with a view toward having a bigger and better talent pool for international events, since relying on Russian players from the NHL has never worked to Russia's advantage.

There are no doubt other political and financial incentives for the owners to sponsor KHL teams besides the bottom line cash flow to individual teams. This doesn't mean that they will patiently invest money forever if no good comes from it, but I can't believe that the owners thought the KHL teams would be so good from the outset that fans would be crawling over each other to try to get in. What will be crucial for success is to see how well the KHL markets its product, particularly on TV. To attract fans, the public must be familiar with the players, and must identify with the players and become fans. The best way to do that is through mass TV exposure. Only time will tell, but I for one do not expect that Russians will allow the KHL to fail and go out of business, unless they find a way to create a hockey league that is better!

 

[Yakushev72]

Yakushev 72

You are confusing the annual income with the GDP per capita. These two things are completely different and have no relation whatsoever.

The GDP per capita is simply the GDP (purchasing power parity) divided by the total population. Therefore, a small country like Liechtenstein has a GDP per capita of $118,000 but that does not mean its citizens earn this money anually; it only means the GDP is high while the population is low, therefore giving us a very high GDP per capita. While your statistic is completely false, it still remains that the GDP per capita is usually the best economic indicator for a country and $16,100 figure is very respectable (comparable to many EU countries like Hungary, Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, etc.), especially because it was surely under $5,000 not so long ago. The Russian economy is back on track and has one of the highest growth rates in the entire world.

The situation is indeed very different from what it used to be and even statistics as recent as from 2004 cannot be used to reflect the situation in 2009, as it is changing rapidly, but always for the best.

Here you can have a look at the evolution of Russian wages in recent years, and it is guaranteed the numbers in 2009 are even higher and will continue to grow furthermore.

GDP, as in gross domestic product, measures the capacity of a nation to produce wealth. Russia had the 10th largest economy in the World in 2010, just a hair behind Canada. Russia's high growth rate will vault it to #7 or #8 within the next 3 to 5 years, which will put it in the neighborhood of Great Britain and France. When you consider where the Russian economy stood just 15 years ago, this is an amazing feat! There is no question that the Russian economy is steadily on the rise, and it is likely that Russia will rise to a level commensurate with its population, abundance of resources, and its highly educated population (particularly in mathematics and science, which seem most critical to modern economies).

 

[Yakushev72]

Yakushev 72

guys, many of you have no idea about how sports run in Europe. And I'm not talking about Russia only, but about the whole Europe.

You might agree, Alessandro, that hockey has never made much money in Russia, and particularly not during Soviet times. It was never about businessmen trying to run a business and get rich. If it had, hockey would have died off a long time ago in Russia!

 

[Peter25]

There is no question that the Russian economy is steadily on the rise, and it is likely that Russia will rise to a level commensurate with its population, abundance of resources, and its highly educated population (particularly in mathematics and science, which seem most critical to modern economies).

Russian economy will certainly be growing steadily for the next 4-5 years, but what concerns me a bit is the availability of new oil and gas reserves. Russian oil output is bound to decline because most of the oil fields are drying up. Can Russia get new oil fields into production to keep up the current level of crude oil production? How much oil is there left in Russia?

 

[NMF78]

Russian economy will certainly be growing steadily for the next 4-5 years, but what concerns me a bit is the availability of new oil and gas reserves. Russian oil output is bound to decline because most of the oil fields are drying up. Can Russia get new oil fields into production to keep up the current level of crude oil production? How much oil is there left in Russia?

I read about it the other day

With the current production levels of oil (Russia is the biggest oilproducer at the moment or the 2e biggest after Saudi-Arabia) and the now proven reserves it has there is about 2 decades left i think. Off course new oil fields can be discoverd.

As far as gas is concerned Russia has by far the biggest reserves (from 1/4 to 1/3 of the worlds reserves depending on the source). Though continued exploitation of a lot of the gasfields will require a lot of investment.

Anyhow its clear Russia has to try and decrease its dependance on oil and gas!

 

[Yakushev72]

Yakushev 72

Russian economy will certainly be growing steadily for the next 4-5 years, but what concerns me a bit is the availability of new oil and gas reserves. Russian oil output is bound to decline because most of the oil fields are drying up. Can Russia get new oil fields into production to keep up the current level of crude oil production? How much oil is there left in Russia?

The U.S. CIA World Factbook lists Russia's proven oil reserves at 74.2 billion barrels. Russia produces about 3.5 billion barrels per year, so that would mean that Russia has about 21 years left, assuming they continue to produce at the same level. Russia receives about $300 billion per year in oil revenues at today's prices.

However, the Wikipedia lists the estimates of actual reserves that lie under Russian soil as between 120-200 billion barrels. In addition, it is estimated that approximately 100 billion barrels that are recoverable lie off of the Russian arctic shelf. Any way you look at it, Russia won't be running out of oil anytime soon. Natural gas reserves in Russia are the largest in the world, and are described as incalculable.

Regardless, while the oil boom can facilitate injection of the necessary funds to make the economy grow, it has to grow in other directions besides the sale of natural resources. In that regard, however, Russia is in much better shape than many other oil-rich nations. The level of literacy and education throughout Russia is such that the society is ripe to sustain real growth and diversity in the economy. It is reasonable to expect that in the next 15-20 years, the world will find ways to ease away from a dependency on oil, coal and other fossil fuels.

 

[Pushkin]

Great comment

 

[NMF78]

It is reasonable to expect that in the next 15-20 years, the world will find ways to ease away from a dependency on oil, coal and other fossil fuels.

the world kinda has to because oil prices and so on will continue to be high or get even higher and already now oil-producing countries have trouble razing the global oil production

 

[pouskin74*]

Russian economy will certainly be growing steadily for the next 4-5 years, but what concerns me a bit is the availability of new oil and gas reserves. Russian oil output is bound to decline because most of the oil fields are drying up. Can Russia get new oil fields into production to keep up the current level of crude oil production? How much oil is there left in Russia?

why wouldnt you ask it from Mr Putin ?

 

[Peter25]

The U.S. CIA World Factbook lists Russia's proven oil reserves at 74.2 billion barrels. Russia produces about 3.5 billion barrels per year, so that would mean that Russia has about 21 years left, assuming they continue to produce at the same level. Russia receives about $300 billion per year in oil revenues at today's prices.

However, the Wikipedia lists the estimates of actual reserves that lie under Russian soil as between 120-200 billion barrels. In addition, it is estimated that approximately 100 billion barrels that are recoverable lie off of the Russian arctic shelf. Any way you look at it, Russia won't be running out of oil anytime soon. Natural gas reserves in Russia are the largest in the world, and are described as incalculable.

Regardless, while the oil boom can facilitate injection of the necessary funds to make the economy grow, it has to grow in other directions besides the sale of natural resources. In that regard, however, Russia is in much better shape than many other oil-rich nations. The level of literacy and education throughout Russia is such that the society is ripe to sustain real growth and diversity in the economy. It is reasonable to expect that in the next 15-20 years, the world will find ways to ease away from a dependency on oil, coal and other fossil fuels.

Thanks for your input.

To my knowledge the remaining Russian oil reserves are located in places where drilling is much more difficult and expensive than in the current oil producing regions such as Tatarstan and Khanty Mansyisk. Increased production costs mean less profits and less tax revenues for the state. However, the oil price will likely stay high and rise which could make drilling in Eastern Siberia and Russian Arctic shelf more profitable than it is now. The world will not get rid of dependency for oil and gas which is bad for the world but good for Russia.

I also agree about the need to diversify the economy but I don't see many results yet. Russian industry can produce goods for internal market but not much for export except for weaponry. I would like to see Russian companies not related to energy and mining to become global players some day.

 

[Yakushev72]

Yakushev 72

Thanks for your input.

To my knowledge the remaining Russian oil reserves are located in places where drilling is much more difficult and expensive than in the current oil producing regions such as Tatarstan and Khanty Mansyisk. Increased production costs mean less profits and less tax revenues for the state. However, the oil price will likely stay high and rise which could make drilling in Eastern Siberia and Russian Arctic shelf more profitable than it is now. The world will not get rid of dependency for oil and gas which is bad for the world but good for Russia.

I also agree about the need to diversify the economy but I don't see many results yet. Russian industry can produce goods for internal market but not much for export except for weaponry. I would like to see Russian companies not related to energy and mining to become global players some day.

You are right that Russia is still mired in an oligarch-driven economy, where the people who own all the wealth basically stole it, or received it as a gift as if it was some kind of Christmas present. This will Pejorative Slur Russia's development a little while longer, but there has already been a tremendous expansion in diversification of the economy and new enterprises, and I personally believe that in the not too distant future, a newer generation will lead a breakthrough and make the oligarchs and other old guard types less relevant.

 

[Peter25]

but there has already been a tremendous expansion in diversification of the economy and new enterprises,

Can you name any examples? I'm not aware of that many Russian products that are exported abroad.

and I personally believe that in the not too distant future, a newer generation will lead a breakthrough and make the oligarchs and other old guard types less relevant.

Hopefully you are right. Russia should not get too comfortable with the current high oil prices but push forward. One question is that can Russia hold on talented people or will they move abroad? Brain drain can be damaging to economy.

 

[Yakushev72]

Can you name any examples? I'm not aware of that many Russian products that are exported abroad.

Have you heard of Stolichnaya? Seriously, there is no question that the Russian economy has changed in major ways since 1991, when you had to queue up at one store for bread, and another store for meat, when meat was in stock. There is still in large sections of Russia where poverty is rampant, but even the Government recognizes that it is in the best interests of Russia's military and economic security to have a strong economy. Even Putin, who is intent on maintaining instruments of authority and control from Soviet days, realizes that the fundamental weaknesses of the Soviet economy forced the Soviet Union to disband. As the old guard dies out, there is greater involvement of the people in economic activity. These changes are most evident in the big cities like Moscow and St. Petersburg now, but there are fewer legal and ideological barriers to improvment of the economy throughout the country.

 

[Sala90]

Attendance KHL

http://stats.sportbox.ru/games.php?sp=hk&turnir=178&club=&player=&pitem=7#podval

Avangard 7881
Salavat Julaev 6967
Lokomotiv 6955
Dinamo R 6093
Amur 6005
Sibir' 5852
Atlant 5716
SKA 5672
Ak Bars 5543
Dinamo M 5130
Torpedo 5106
Metallurg Mg 5008
Barys 4938
CSKA 4691
HK MVD 4584
Metallurg Nk 4534
Neftehimik 4488
Traktor 4338
Spartak 4325
Himik 4102
Lada 4041
Dinamo Mn 3990
Severstal' 3917
Vitjaz' 3624

Update with the numbers ?

 

[cska78]

Can you name any examples? I'm not aware of that many Russian products that are exported abroad.

Have you heard of Stolichnaya? Seriously, there is no question that the Russian economy has changed in major ways since 1991, when you had to queue up at one store for bread, and another store for meat, when meat was in stock. There is still in large sections of Russia where poverty is rampant, but even the Government recognizes that it is in the best interests of Russia's military and economic security to have a strong economy. Even Putin, who is intent on maintaining instruments of authority and control from Soviet days, realizes that the fundamental weaknesses of the Soviet economy forced the Soviet Union to disband. As the old guard dies out, there is greater involvement of the people in economic activity. These changes are most evident in the big cities like Moscow and St. Petersburg now, but there are fewer legal and ideological barriers to improvment of the economy throughout the country.

Moscow's and St. Petersburgh success is build on low-balling the province and sucking the money out of oil/gas industries. With the amount of oil and gas being sold people of Russia should have golden handles in their toilettes and they do in Rublevkas and such, while many still use a hole in the ground to do the nasty... But why are we discussing all this on a hockey forum?
While ship, space, plane technologies are nearly lost or are lost, Russia can't even design plane engines anymore...

 

[finchster]

http://stats.sportbox.ru/games.php?sp=hk&turnir=218&pitem=6#podval

Team|Attendance
Dinamo Minsk|7876
Omsk|7861
Salavat Yulayev|7443
Locomotive|7301
SKA St Petersberg|7113
Magnitogorsk|6447
Dinamo Riga|6418
Tractor|6253
Sibir|6175
Amur|6129
UCC Dynamo|5963
Ak Bars|5896
Atlant|5586
Barys|5198
Torpedo|5104
Neftekhimik|5068
Avtomobilist|4631
Spartak|4592
Vitjaz|4482
Severstal|4481
Metallurg Nk|4358
Ugra | 4345
CSKA Moscow|4338

I find it shocking that Ugra average that many people for a game.

 

[ult]

http://stats.sportbox.ru/games.php?sp=hk&turnir=218&pitem=6#podval

Team|Attendance
Dinamo Minsk|7876
Omsk|7861
Salavat Yulayev|7443
Locomotive|7301
SKA St Petersberg|7113
Magnitogorsk|6447
Dinamo Riga|6418
Tractor|6253
Sibir|6175
Amur|6129
UCC Dynamo|5963
Ak Bars|5896
Atlant|5586
Barys|5198
Torpedo|5104
Neftekhimik|5068
Avtomobilist|4631
Spartak|4592
Vitjaz|4482
Severstal|4481
Metallurg Nk|4358
Ugra | 4345
CSKA Moscow|4338

I find it shocking that Ugra average that many people for a game.

That's average attendance both at home and away games. Real figures - 10538 for Minsk and 3412 for Yugra.

 

[Yakushev72]

Yakushev 72

Moscow's and St. Petersburgh success is build on low-balling the province and sucking the money out of oil/gas industries. With the amount of oil and gas being sold people of Russia should have golden handles in their toilettes and they do in Rublevkas and such, while many still use a hole in the ground to do the nasty... But why are we discussing all this on a hockey forum?
While ship, space, plane technologies are nearly lost or are lost, Russia can't even design plane engines anymore...

Good point! The discussion strayed far off topic, although you could say that attendance figures don't make for the most stimulating discussion that you could have.

 

[NMF78]

So CSKA and Spartak are the 2 teams with the lowest attendance? The 2 teams with the biggest history and located in a city of 10,5 million people...

 

[cska78]

So CSKA and Spartak are the 2 teams with the lowest attendance? The 2 teams with the biggest history and located in a city of 10,5 million people...

yes awful arenas, very hard to make it to the games on time after work due to Moscow's most terrible traffic jams, poor budget, lack of success on the ice as well, in case of cska - questionable ownership, coach, president and effort on the ice.

 

[AlexandreBurrows]

can anybody tell me how much do tickets cost?

 

[cska78]

can anybody tell me how much do tickets cost?

depends where you plan on sitting, but they are not very expansive, I think a season ticket for Spartak is like $150))

 

[Garyboy]

People just don't really care about lower level hockey in the big city. The more successful AHL venues are places farthest from NHL locations anyways.

Thus, not a great hockey market. LEAFS, LEAFS, LEAFS. That's about it for the majority in Torono.