Keith Tkachuk and the Chicago Blackhawks

FakeKidPoker*

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Keith Tkachuk a great player in his day.. big, nasty, a great goal scorer.

Back in his earlier days easy to forget he signed a huge offersheet with the Chicago Blackhawks.. quite out of character for a rather cheap franchise. (funny the even cheaper Jets franchise decided to match)

Just wondering how would things have changed had he went to Chicago? Does this mean JR stays? Or JR leaves even sooner? Do the Hawks finally get that Cup that had alluded them previous years in the 90s before?

Does the known underachiever Tkachuk in the clutch able to reach greatness with the Hawks? He is good don't get me wrong but his in the playoffs and clutch are rather poor.. a good comparison to a player of today would be Jarome Iginla.
 
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Al Bundy*

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He would have at least provided a formidable threat on the other wing side to Amonte.
 

Sumoki Dachiba

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Feb 21, 2008
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Keith Tkachuk a great player in his day.. big, nasty, a great goal scorer.

Back in his earlier days easy to forget he signed a huge offersheet with the Chicago Blackhawks.. quite out of character for a rather cheap franchise. (funny the even cheaper Jets franchise decided to match)

Just wondering how would things have changed had he went to Chicago? Does this mean JR stays? Or JR leaves even sooner? Do the Hawks finally get that Cup that had alluded them previous years in the 90s before?

Does the known underachiever Tkachuk in the clutch able to reach greatness with the Hawks? He is good don't get me wrong but his in the playoffs and clutch are rather poor.. a good comparison to a player of today would be Jarome Iginla.

I don't think you're going to get much support for that comparison. Iggy shows up for the playoffs is undoubtedly a performer in the clutch.
 

FakeKidPoker*

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I don't think you're going to get much support for that comparison. Iggy shows up for the playoffs is undoubtedly a performer in the clutch.

What? Where do you get that?

Iginla like Tkachuk has only gotten out of the first round of the playoffs once with some very solid teams.

and Iginla in the clutch? He wasn't very clutch in games 6 or 7 of the SCF.
 

Ishdul

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Jan 20, 2007
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What? Where do you get that?

Iginla like Tkachuk has only gotten out of the first round of the playoffs once with some very solid teams.

and Iginla in the clutch? He wasn't very clutch in games 6 or 7 of the SCF.
I thought he was the best player in the playoffs in 2004, and cherrypicking 2 games out of the 26 he played that year as an example of his un-clutch-ness is ridiculous (and I don't think he played poorly in those 2 games,. I don't remember him as being bad in them, especially considering that Tampa's entire defense was based around stopping him. His playoff numbers are pretty strong on the whole. He got 3 playoff series wins with an average playoff team that played one whole home playoff series in that span, I'd be more inclined to say they outperformed their expectations. No idea where you're coming from with this.
 

shadow1

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Nov 29, 2008
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What? Where do you get that?

Iginla like Tkachuk has only gotten out of the first round of the playoffs once with some very solid teams.

and Iginla in the clutch? He wasn't very clutch in games 6 or 7 of the SCF.

49 points in 54 career playoff games while playing for some very crappy Flames teams. The only time an Iginla-led Calgary team went into the playoffs and blew it was in 2005-2006 against the Ducks, and he had five goals in the seven game series.

As for the question at hand, it probably would have worked out about as well as the JR-KT combo worked out in Phoenix: moderate success.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

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That offer sheet is a good reminder of the massive Tkachuk hype after his first few seasons in the league. Still just 22 at the time much was expected from him, in fact he was seen as a possible superstar in the league.

It is perhaps no surprise then that in spite of 500 goals and 1000 points some would view his career as somewhat of a disappointment.
 

FakeKidPoker*

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49 points in 54 career playoff games while playing for some very crappy Flames teams. The only time an Iginla-led Calgary team went into the playoffs and blew it was in 2005-2006 against the Ducks, and he had five goals in the seven game series.

As for the question at hand, it probably would have worked out about as well as the JR-KT combo worked out in Phoenix: moderate success.

Very crappy? Hardly.. the worst his team has ever finished in a playoff spot was 7th.

He had the best goalie in the league for a while..one of the best offensive D-man and multiple PPG forwards with him.

I don't get the myth that Iginla has never had any quality linemates or has had any good teams.

and I don't know how you can call Iginla clutch when he fails to show up in the biggest games.

Games 6 and 7 against Tampa Bay, Game 7 against the Ducks, Game 7 against the Sharks.. the entire series against the Hawks where he was neutralized by Adam Burish.
 

ForsbergForever

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A top line of Tkachuk-Roenick-Amonte, all Massachusetts boys, would be amazing to watch. They had some great players at the time, a second line with Daze and Nicholls a great D with Chelios, Suter, Weinrich and Carney, not to mention Belfour in goal, but it just seems like they either had bad luck or couldn't elevate their game to playoff level when the time came. I don't really know too much about the team at that time but it seems like they would be very strong on paper, if not the ice if the chemistry came out just right. This of course assumes that Wirtz doesn't blow up the team over $ before they get a shot.
 

Elvis P

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I'm a Hawks fan, but I don't think it would have changed the Hawk's success in the playoffs.

Perhaps the reason I did not like him as much as I probably should was his penchant for taking bad penalties. He was mean and volatile, which is often great with such hockey beasts. But he had a reputation for keeping his stick high and for throwing retaliatory punches once the safety of the scrum had arrived. That, and he had little post-season success and was seemingly always in a contract squabble.
 

shadow1

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Nov 29, 2008
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Very crappy? Hardly.. the worst his team has ever finished in a playoff spot was 7th.

He had the best goalie in the league for a while..one of the best offensive D-man and multiple PPG forwards with him.

I don't get the myth that Iginla has never had any quality linemates or has had any good teams.

and I don't know how you can call Iginla clutch when he fails to show up in the biggest games.

Games 6 and 7 against Tampa Bay, Game 7 against the Ducks, Game 7 against the Sharks.. the entire series against the Hawks where he was neutralized by Adam Burish.

Seven non-post season finishes in a row followed by 6th, 3rd, 8th, 7th, 5th, Miss, Miss. Yeah, a real powerhouse he's played for. The fact that one of those teams made it to the Stanley Cup finals is a testament to Iginla's post season play.

Also, he had a goal in game seven against the Sharks. I don't feel like examining all of the single games you've cherry picked, but that one is blatant.
 

FakeKidPoker*

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I went back saw.. deflection goal.

He got owned by a 38 year old Jeremy Roenick that game who just dominated.. pure heart.

I'm just stating facts.. Iginla doesn't show up in the biggest games.

Final two games of Tampa Bay? 0 points, 2 shots a minus player

Final two games against the Ducks 0 points.

Both times the Flames were up in the series as well..both times they blew it... Iginla is a good player, he isn't a clutch player.
 

DT77

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Jul 7, 2009
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Game 7 vs. Canucks in 2004. The Flames hadn't won a playoff series in 16 years and faced a much better team in their own building. If there was ever a time they needed some clutch scoring, it was in this game. Iginla proceeds to have one of the most dominant games in years. He OWNED this game. Two huge goals to give the Flames leads and the primary assist (rebound) on Gelinas' OT winner.

That performance is the very definition of clutch.
 

FakeKidPoker*

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I remember that game, I remember Iginla missing a wide open empty net to seal the game off only for Naslund to skate down the ice and end up the puck in the Calgary net.

Had Vancouver won that game would have Iginla gone down as the games all time greatest choker?

Yes he did have a good game that night.. but you really need more then one game.

That was actually one of the series the Flames had a lead in and actually didn't choke it away.

and his no show in the final games of the SCF and the series' after that with far better teams speak far more.
 

DT77

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
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I remember Iginla missing that empty net. When those forever classy Vancouver fans rained garbage onto the ice. The thrown jacket was the best though. Iginla tripping over it on his way back up the ice preventing him from getting back into the play is something I'll always remember. That and Jovanovski's spazgasm in the penalty box...

Clearly this has become some sort of vendetta against Jarome Iginla. I would love to have you better define "clutch". To me, the most "clutch" performance of all-time was Mark Messier's "guaranteed win" in Game 6 against the Devils in '94 where he proceeded to score a hat-trick to back it up. Does the fact that he only managed a secondary assist in Game 7 mean he wasn't "clutch" in a bigger game? I also suppose that since he scored a goal and an assist in Game 7 to knock out the Canucks that year, he's most certainly "clutch" despite the fact that in the previous six games he only managed a goal and 3 assists with all but one assist coming in losing efforts. Was there no need to be "clutch" in those games? Or, is it that maybe a player can bring a lot more to the table than just these "clutch" performances and maybe there's more than just stats to define what a player does for his team in a "big" game?

Either way, here are some other examples off the top of my head I would think you would define as "clutch" performances:

WHL Playoffs & Memorial Cup

As a junior rookie at 16 years old, scores two goals in the final game of the 1994 WHL Championship to help send the Blazers to the Memorial Cup.

Scores three game winning goals in 4-1 series win over Seattle in the 1996 quarter-final en route to scoring 16 goals and 13 assists in just 16 games. Good for 4th best in the playoffs.

1996 World Junior Championships

Tournament Leading Scorer and MVP: Jarome Iginla

His only World Junior Tournament, in the semi-final against Russia, scored the winning goal late in the 3rd for a 4-3 win then went on to set up Canada's first three goals en route to a 4-1 win over Sweden in the final.

2002 Olympics

While Iginla played well in the 2006 and 2010 Olympics (let's not forget who set up the "Golden Goal" in Vancouver... pretty "clutch" there) Iginla was lights out in the Gold Medal game in 2002. Two goals and an assist playing alongside Joe Sakic to put the game away in the third period.

NHL Career

Before even playing a regular season NHL game, suits up for two playoff games for the hapless Flames at 18 years old, tallying an assist in his first ever game and scoring the Flames ONLY goal in the final game of their eventual sweep at the hands of the Blackhawks.

In the 2004 playoffs, scored 13 goals to lead all players and added 9 assists for 22 points, good enough for third overall. He was also +13 for the entire post season. The best of all forwards. You say he wasn't "clutch" so let's take a look:

Of his 13 goals, 3 were the first goal of the game, one tied the game and another three were game winners. Of the three game winning goals, the first was in the third period of Game 5 vs. Vancouver to give the Flames a 2-1 victory on the road. The second was in Game 5 vs. San Jose short-handed to put the Flames up 1-0 en route to a 3-0 shutout, again on the road. The third winner was in Game 1 vs. Tampa Bay, another short-handed goal to break a 1-1 score, on the road of course.

Game winning goals in the Conference Finals and Cup Finals, short-handed? That sounds pretty "clutch". Oh, but there's more!

Of Iginla's nine post-season assists, he assisted on the game-winning goal SIX times. Twice in regulation, and FOUR times in overtime. He assisted on the OT winning goals to eliminate both Vancouver and Detroit as well as the OT winner in Game 1 vs. San Jose and a critical OT goal in Game 5 vs. Tampa in the Final. All but the goal against Detroit were scored in the opposition's rink no less.

Without Iginla's play, the Flames would never have had the chance to even get to the finals, let alone get to a 7th game.

In the post-seasons since the 2004 run, the Flames haven't faired well. However, despite the team's lack of success, it can't come down to a lack of "clutch" play from Jarome Iginla. 14 goals and 11 assists in 26 games including game winning goals against Anaheim and Detroit and though the team was unable to win, goals in the final game vs. Detroit and San Jose, the San Jose goal to tie the game early. You point out that Roenick "man-handled" Iginla in that final game. Roenick's 4 point night was impressive, no doubt. I'd certainly define it as "clutch". How many points did he get before that game though? None. It's one thing to have a big game but when you contribute nothing in getting your team to that game in the first place, it takes something away from it. Not to take anything away from JR. He had a fantastic career.

Last of all in regular season play, of Jarome Iginla's 506 goals, 80 are game-winners. A 16% clip good enough for 17th all-time on a list of players with 350 or more goals. To put that into perspective, of Wayne Gretzky's 892 goals only 91 are game-winners - a 10% pace.

Jarome Iginla will never be the definition of a "clutch" player. There are many better players out there. But, to say he isn't "clutch" at all, doesn't make any sense.


Oh, and on topic - Keith Tkachuk to the Hawks? I have no idea. It might have made a difference? Meh.
 

Theokritos

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Apr 6, 2010
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How did this thread transform into Iginla talk?

OP shouldn't have said that:

Does the known underachiever Tkachuk in the clutch able to reach greatness with the Hawks? He is good don't get me wrong but his in the playoffs and clutch are rather poor.. a good comparison to a player of today would be Jarome Iginla.

A second thread or just be quiet about Iginla, but incidental remarks like these presupposing controversial opinions are just going to split your thread: 50% Tkachuk talk, 50% Iginla talk.
 

Hardyvan123

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Jul 4, 2010
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I went back saw.. deflection goal.

He got owned by a 38 year old Jeremy Roenick that game who just dominated.. pure heart.

I'm just stating facts.. Iginla doesn't show up in the biggest games.

Final two games of Tampa Bay? 0 points, 2 shots a minus player

Final two games against the Ducks 0 points.

Both times the Flames were up in the series as well..both times they blew it... Iginla is a good player, he isn't a clutch player.

Those goals count jsut as much as the pretty goals don't they?

as well you are taking 5 games out of 54 in his playoffs to paint a very biased picture here.

I'm pretty sure the guys picking Olympic teams had it wrong picking him 3 times right? 19-10-4-14 line in those games in "best on best"
 

Hockeyville USA

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If the Jets don't match, Blackhawks' trajectory is changed forever. Maybe they experience a bit more playoff success in the short term, maybe Roenick isn't traded to Phoenix for Zhamnov. And of course, due to the butterfly effect, the events in motion are now changed, so unlikely that they get Toews and Kane.

Additionally, I believe the Jets traded Selanne prior to the move because they needed to shed salary after matching the Tkachuk offer sheet. So who knows what happens with Selanne and if he still goes to Anaheim in this hypothetical.

Coyotes' start in Arizona would have been different with the original Captain Coyote not there, and potentially no Roenick there either.
 

WarriorofTime

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Jul 3, 2010
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Hawks were in the conference finals in 1995 before that off-season. In 1995-96, they were a 3 seed in the west and lost to Colorado in six games in the 2nd round. From there they traded Roenick and dipped, traded Belfour during the following season (pending FA), and then everyone else gradually left. Their streak of 28 consecutive postseasons concluded with just squeaking in 1996-97, followed be a long stretch of just 1 postseason appearance in 11 years.

Perhaps Tkachuk would have halted the decline of that team and they might have been able to make a go at it.
 
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