Karlsson's Season and Future Part II: E-Bay Watch Edition

[pm88]

and I don't understand why he would be. The day was gonna come where Alfie wasn't around anyways.. whether it be after this year or the next.

I get he's upset that he left, but thats no excuse to act like a little girl about it and not give any effort just because he's upset. Its time to the man the f-ck up and get over it

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

He is terrible defensively. Too much homerism when it comes to Karlsson.

 

[TeamRenzo]

Well, it boils down to this: the team stinks this year but they have a lot of talent that they can easily rebound next year.

I am interested in how the players react in the off-season. Considering how bad this season has been I expect nothing less than hard core off season training...nobody should get the summer "off".

Players need a bit of down time to re-charge their batteries but they need to spend their summer training.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Cowen, bad luck, and bad defensive plays

Since Methot was reunited with Karlsson after the Olympic, eight games ago, Karlsson is a -4, so any attempt to point the finger at Cowen is rather shortsighted.

The other problem with looking to Cowen as any part of the reason Karlsson is -18, is trying to explain why Cowen is only -2.

EK is - 18 while producing 35ES points, which means he has been on the ice for 53 GA, while Cowen has been on the ice for 15 GA.

Another interesting stat, Methot was +3 when reunited with Karlsson, now is -1.

The fact is Karlsson's defensive play has little to do with his partner, even less to do with luck, just mostly due to an apparent lack of effort or smarts defensively.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

He is terrible defensively. Too much homerism when it comes to Karlsson.

agreed.. I expect elite when he keeps getting labelled with that word. fans just cant wait for a good play and go " see hes elite" (I realize its not all fans) and then when he makes a bad play its like " well cowen makes the same mistakes" or "yea but the so and so did that". Fortunately he is young. and will get and be better than what he is right now.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Well, it boils down to this: the team stinks this year but they have a lot of talent that they can easily rebound next year.

I am interested in how the players react in the off-season. Considering how bad this season has been I expect nothing less than hard core off season training...nobody should get the summer "off".

Players need a bit of down time to re-charge their batteries but they need to spend their summer training.

The problems with the Sens has little to do with the physical side of the game and everything to do with mental preparation.

There is something just not right in the mental make-up of the team given how easily they fold.

 

[SenzZen]

His skating is still not where it once was- not sure it will ever get there, but I'm happy it's even where it is now.

The team has scored 140 ES goals and 3 SH goals this year.

Conversely, we've given up 155 ES goals and 8 SH goals.

That's a difference of 20 goals to the minus side of the ledger, so it's hard to pin it all on our offensively unmatched defenceman.

Can he still improve defensively? Yes, of course. Are 23 year old defencemen thought to be past the point of development at the NHL level? Hardly.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Spezza: -23
Michalek: -24

Anderson: .908%
Lehner: .907%

Those have been his most common teammates. Aside from playing with the 3rd line as well which is a combined -38.

Karlsson's plethora of minus came from the first half.

He was -18 since the first half(first 35-40 games) and +/- 0 since.

At that time, Spezza and Michalek as well as Anderson played their worst hockey of the their careers as well.

With that being said, Karlsson was also terrible to start the year and fully deserves it but he's still near the - range because this team hasn't done good enough to get his +/- back up.

Actually Karlsson was -7 in the first 34 games and -11 in the last 34 games, so it would appear your theory doesn't wash, nor does looking elsewhere for the cause of his defensive play.

 

[Tuna99]

I think he needs a summer off to rejuvenate, he's had Sochi, the Alfie fiasco and the injury to come back from - I'm not giving him a mulligan but it's been a tough season on him expectations, injury and leadership wise, he's wearing an A as a 23 year old, he's playing for a horrible team, he went to Sochi and his best bud and Captain left, let's give him a bit of breathing room.

I like him as our next Captain, when he Gets the drive to be the best back we'll all be in love again.

Remember his pass to Mac this season on the open net? It turned Ottawa's season around and they went on their 12-4 run after that, he is the franchise and provides the magic, I still love watching him

 

[Holdurbreathe]

His skating is still not where it once was- not sure it will ever get there, but I'm happy it's even where it is now.

The team has scored 140 ES goals and 3 SH goals this year.

Conversely, we've given up 155 ES goals and 8 SH goals.

That's a difference of 20 goals to the minus side of the ledger, so it's hard to pin it all on our offensively unmatched defenceman.
Can he still improve defensively? Yes, of course. Are 23 year old defencemen thought to be past the point of development at the NHL level? Hardly.

Totally agree, but to look at Cowen, Gryba or any other Senator with a critical eye and give Karlsson's defensive lapses and poor decision making a pass is bias and unfair.

EK is young and will continue to develop his overall game, but there are negatives to his play that are costing the team at times.

While he is responsible for a great deal of offence overall, his ES play is a net negative.

IMO if the team is going to have success, the guy that is playing an average if 21 minutes a game ES, cannot be a defensive liability.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

I think he needs a summer off to rejuvenate, he's had Sochi, the Alfie fiasco and the injury to come back from - I'm not giving him a mulligan but it's been a tough season on him expectations, injury and leadership wise, he's wearing an A as a 23 year old, he's playing for a horrible team, he went to Sochi and his best bud and Captain left, let's give him a bit of breathing room.

I like him as our next Captain, when he Gets the drive to be the best back we'll all be in love again.

Remember his pass to Mac this season on the open net? It turned Ottawa's season around and they went on their 12-4 run after that, he is the franchise and provides the magic, I still love watching him

Actually I wish he was wearing an "A", if he had been maybe this team would have come together better.

I do appreciate he is young and has had some personal issues this year, but those issues haven't stopped him from playing well with the puck.

EK just needs to focus on his defensive game, it may not be as much fun but its how games are decided.

 

[HockeySens]

What I dont understand is he has the worst +- rating out of all the sens dman and by quite a bit too. Sure he plays the most minutes but he also has the most points by a wide margin. Cowen is -2, Gryba is + 6 , Phillips is -11, Methot is -2. I dont understand how Cowen has -2 and Karlsson -18 when they were paired for a big chunk of the season. Im not sure wether this shows how misleading +- is or if there is some truth to it. It makes sense that the sens with the worst +- is Michalek and Spezza and the best are Turris, Ryan and MacArthur. My guess is that Karlsson really got problems defensively and while the -18 might be an exaggeration but it also reflects his play.

 

[Northern Neighbour]

Another big reason for his negative +/- is turnovers. He's turning the puck over a lot this year, and they're leading to goals. And it's not just the high number of giveaways, but also where they take place, such as in the neutral or at the blueline that leads to odd-man rushes the other way.

 

[Spez]

Big sens fan but even I'll admit Karlsson did not deserve to win the Norris that year. The problems with that trophy started when Chara was robbed of the Norris the one year Lidstrom won it at as a minus player. I felt like the voters gave him the Norris because they thought he was going to retire that season. The year Karlsson won it was the year Weber should have won it. Weber is so much better than Karlsson it's not even close. Everyone would trade for Weber any day of the week. I also believe that Suter was robbed of the Norris last season as well. Subban was good but not Norris level good. Karlsson put up a lot of points when he won it but the Norris trophy d-man should be great in both zones not just an offensive wizard. Karlsson still has a long way to go to prove he's not just a one dimensional d-man. He's still soft when defending and needs to use his smarts better like Lidstrom/Neidermayer did.

 

[Neiler]

+/- is a silly stat. There's 6 players on the ice, not 1. If your goalie stinks everyone is affected. If you have a crappy D partner you suffer. If you play with crappy forwards all the time you suffer. And vice versa in all scenarios.

Also people seem to be adding this stat up lately I've noticed which makes no sense. You can't say these 3 guys are collectively -39 if they play together every single shift. It makes it sound dramatic like the line has given up 39 more than they scored when really, collectively, they only gave up 13. If that makes sense...

Just ignore +/- and enjoy EK.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

+/- is a silly stat. There's 6 players on the ice, not 1. If your goalie stinks everyone is affected. If you have a crappy D partner you suffer. If you play with crappy forwards all the time you suffer. And vice versa in all scenarios.

Also people seem to be adding this stat up lately I've noticed which makes no sense. You can't say these 3 guys are collectively -39 if they play together every single shift. It makes it sound dramatic like the line has given up 39 more than they scored when really, collectively, they only gave up 13. If that makes sense...

Just ignore +/- and enjoy EK.

Think this year's version of the team took your advice, they just ignore the goals against and attempt to outscore the opposition.

How has that worked out for them?

 

[YNWA14]

Karlsson isn't good defensively. He's an elite offensive talent that struggles in his own zone. This means that he needs a team to insulate him defensively or a goalie that can help cover for him. Neither of those things are present this year. When that stuff is present his +/- will look a lot better like most offensive players.

 

[HavlatMach9]

disagree. he's fine defensively. there are aspects of his defensive which are good and pivoting problems are causing him problems again after the injury.

 

[YNWA14]

disagree. he's fine defensively. there are aspects of his defensive which are good and pivoting problems are causing him problems again after the injury.

This is an excuse. He's soft on the boards, he doesn't show urgency in the zone, he often cheats out of the zone to try and get a jump on the offence and he's outmuscled easily in battles for the puck. Not to mention he's often enough out of position and allows the other team to get to the puck first in 50/50 chances like 90% of the time.

This is completely ignoring his pivoting and perceived skating issues.

 

[HavlatMach9]

This is an excuse. He's soft on the boards, he doesn't show urgency in the zone, he often cheats out of the zone to try and get a jump on the offence and he's outmuscled easily in battles for the puck. Not to mention he's often enough out of position and allows the other team to get to the puck first in 50/50 chances like 90% of the time.

This is completely ignoring his pivoting and perceived skating issues.

he uses his stick along the board which makes him effective anyhow, his loose stick and stick work is really good. He doesn't really cheat out there offensively as much as he plays the percentage game. He tries to be in position and follows free opponents around which he's is really good at spotting. Out-muscled in the rare times he doesn't just use his speed to separate himself from the opponent. If there's a hint of a loose puck, it's his.

Can't argue with urgency, it's disturbing but good at the same time that it's fixable but still disturbing. A lot of actual goals could have been prevented if he just skated as hard as every other player does.

 

[Margaret Trudeau*]

On the Sens he's expected to score/ setup goals and there isn't proper coverage for his rushes.

On team Sweden he didn't have to rush as much and he dominated the tournament.

I think what's happening now is a bit of what happened to Alfie in the playoffs when he tried to do too much.

 

[Qward]

Please take 2 minutes to see if another thread already exists before creating a new one.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Lmao @ people thinking he naturally isn't good defensively.

Someone needs to go re-watch the Olympics and realize how 3-4 of Sweden's best defenders were worse than him defensively including OEL who Cujomi couldn't get enough of at the beginning of the year claiming he'd trade the two straight up. Yet now, Karlsson is the one who needs insulating.

Karlsson in his Norris year was above average and last year was very good. This year he has been bad but it's not like there haven't been drastic impacts to affect his play.

I'm not trying to create excuses but it's hard not to blame a broken arm when you aren't pitching as hard as you used to previously.

The fact that Karlsson is playing on a bad team only ADDS to his recovery struggles not cause it exposes his actual defensive liabilities

Since Alfie left, Karlsson has turned into a Kovalevish player. Extremely talented but rarely play with passion. And he still leads all defencemen in points. Imagine if we could find a coach and/or player/captain who can put him in his Place.

False. Karlsson didn't try as much in defensive zone but always tried his best in the offensive zone and he is ten times more effective in offensive zone and spends more time there. Hence it still tips the scale towards the better positive impacts.

Kovalev used to go invisible both ends of the ice and therefore the comparison is invalid.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Big sens fan but even I'll admit Karlsson did not deserve to win the Norris that year. The problems with that trophy started when Chara was robbed of the Norris the one year Lidstrom won it at as a minus player. I felt like the voters gave him the Norris because they thought he was going to retire that season. The year Karlsson won it was the year Weber should have won it. Weber is so much better than Karlsson it's not even close. Everyone would trade for Weber any day of the week. I also believe that Suter was robbed of the Norris last season as well. Subban was good but not Norris level good. Karlsson put up a lot of points when he won it but the Norris trophy d-man should be great in both zones not just an offensive wizard. Karlsson still has a long way to go to prove he's not just a one dimensional d-man. He's still soft when defending and needs to use his smarts better like Lidstrom/Neidermayer did.

I would say he deserved the Norris that year. He was a beast.

This year hasn't been his best. He has been a bit of a mess in his own zone for stretches this year, and still isn't quite there with his skating. He definitely isn't worst guy on this team in his own end....which is pretty scary.

 

[playasRus]

I wonder if we're overplaying him. Not because I think we have better options but because maybe these 25+ min nights tire him, and take away his best asset, his speed, making him omre likely to make mental lapses and be taken advantage of. His best ability defensively is to backcheck, outwork and take the puck away. Gotta be hard to have the energy to do that when you're playing 25min every night.

Guys like Webber and Suter don't need as much energy because they don't rush the puck as much so they're not as tired when playing 25min.