Speculation: Jvr 1v1 Bozak.

[Wafflewhipper]

While trying to get my head around some possible trade deadline decisions i confirmed at the hockeynews stats section, bozak and Jvr are tied for career points per game at .62.

Pretty respectable numbers if you are Jvr who is teflon man, but a very contrasting respect when it comes to Bozak.

The numbers are based on same number of years,7th each and about 20 games difference!

The hate Bozak recieves is a certain bias caused in the Kadri comparison. It is very disappointing that it had to come to that over the years really.

The point though being i was gauging trade options. Respect to Bozak for being a true professional playing with the lazy Kessel all them years too.

Should management trade either of the above mentioned though, Jvr is the better value. Bozak can't be given away though with a good cap hit and excellent ppg career that is seeming snubbed and not recognised.

I think in a no look at stats poll asking who has the most points per game career would see 100% Jvr result.

So. Would trading Jvr for a top pairing defenseman at the deadline be any better as a result than getting pick and prospect for Bozak who is always mentioned should be traded.

I say Bozak is more valuable to keep and Jvr is worth more traded. Thoughts. Qualifer: i respect both Bozak and Kadri.

Interested to see who is in favour of trading Jvr over Bozak!

Click to read more...

 

[Joey Hoser]

A contender could plop JVR onto their top line and it would improve most top lines around the league.

Can't do that with Bozak.

 

[TMLegend]

Bozak is definitely an underrated player, especially on this board. Very versatile, can lineup on the PK or PP and do an adequate job at any role you want him in. It's the main reason why I would rather keep Bozak and trade Kadri given the choice.

Bozak has never gotten his due here. Mostly from the Kadri camp and pro-Kessel crowd.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

A contender could plop JVR onto their top line and it would improve most top lines around the league.

Can't do that with Bozak.

Bozak has the same career value offensively with lesser trade value. So he would provide us with identicle offense but much less in trade value. The cap hits are similar also.

Yes Jvr does have that top line scoring. Thus the trade value. Would you trade equal value offensively on the lesser value(bozak) or elevated current value( Jvr) on a team 3 or 4 years out from contender? I'm just gauging opinion not scrutinizing opinions. Thanks.

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

I don't think there's really any question who is worth more.

We hope to get a first rounder for Bozak.

Getting JVR would require a first rounder plus - and if it's a late first rounder, the plus is significant.

Edit as I misunderstood the initial post a bit: I think "which guy do you trade" is a false dichotomy - you look at trade proposals for each one individually. And JVR has more value than Bozak for a reason. He's younger, fits definitively in the top six as opposed to 2nd/3rd liner Bozak, and still has the size/speed/skill to be a legitimate 200-foot player if he continues to improve his game under Babcock.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Bozak is definitely an underrated player, especially on this board. Very versatile, can lineup on the PK or PP and do an adequate job at any role you want him in. It's the main reason why I would rather keep Bozak and trade Kadri given the choice.

Bozak has never gotten his due here. Mostly from the Kadri camp and pro-Kessel crowd.

The option articulated was pick between Bozak and Jvr. If you want to trade Kadri thats fine. Try that conversation on in the many debates of the two previously.

Who holds long term value between Jvr and Bozak in a trading scenario. Also Bozak's next contract will likely drop in cap hit and Jvr's will increase.

Its a interesting comparison i will just sit back now for a bit and gauge opinion on . thanks.

Kadri is the youngest and is also.60 points per game career. Believed to be the best 200 foot player at present of the three.

 

[TheCLAM]

Bozak is definitely an underrated player, especially on this board. Very versatile, can lineup on the PK or PP and do an adequate job at any role you want him in. It's the main reason why I would rather keep Bozak and trade Kadri given the choice.

Bozak has never gotten his due here. Mostly from the Kadri camp and pro-Kessel crowd.

As a long-term piece Bozak age doesn't fit into the puzzle unless we plan on keeping him as a 2/3 third line center

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I don't think there's really any question who is worth more.

We hope to get a first rounder for Bozak.

Getting JVR would require a first rounder plus - and if it's a late first rounder, the plus is significant.

Edit as I misunderstood the initial post a bit: I think "which guy do you trade" is a false dichotomy - you look at trade proposals for each one individually. And JVR has more value than Bozak for a reason. He's younger, fits definitively in the top six as opposed to 2nd/3rd liner Bozak, and still has the size/speed/skill to be a legitimate 200-foot player if he continues to improve his game under Babcock.

Equal career points per game considered i suspect. Games played and years played is almost identicle.

 

[Cor]

1v1 me bro

 

[Wafflewhipper]

1v1 me bro

Me? Well ok then lol.

 

[StatsNightHeroes]

I may be in the minority here but I'm moving JVR before Bozak, provided you get fair value for him which IMO begins with either a top 15 pick or really good prospect + another good/really good young piece. Cap wise his contract is a great bargain right now and he is in the prime of his career. I've made this point before but it's worth repeating, the return on JVR either at the TDL or this off season will be way more useful to this organization's future success then keeping him and having to sign him to a lucrative long term deal in a few years that will extend long past his prime and the value of which will be determine by his play in his prime.

As for Bozak, I'd also like to see him moved. But his contract isn't as great a bargain, especially for teams who would use him as their 3rd line C, so the return won't be nearly as good. He also strikes me as a good guy to help insulate and mentor some young guys. He's having an impressive career considering that he went undrafted and has been around for the numerous dumpster fire-esque lineups the Leafa have put out over the last few years. I'm sure he could teach Marner and Nylander some stuff, since all 3 of them are undersized right handed shot forwards with great mitts. Marner especially could benefit from having him around since they play at a similar pace. So if the price is right, move him. If not, he'd be one of my top picks to mentor the youth.

 

[Durrr]

Putting aside the whole Kadri vs Bozak thing, I fail to see how a 30 year old 2nd line center helps a rebuilding team, even if we didn't have a younger option in Kadri. Bozak would just end up leaving in 2 years anyways when his contract is up, so ship him out now for literally anything of value and let Kadri go into next season as the #1C and Nylander as #2. There really isn't much room for Bozak and Kadri, so take the younger one and move on.

Jvr, can still be a great player on this team going forward so I'd only look to trade him if the offers are where they need to be or if it looks like he won't resign here in 2 years. This means no TDL trades, as all you are really getting in those deals is late firsts and some okay prospects, look to move him at the draft if anything.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I may be in the minority here but I'm moving JVR before Bozak, provided you get fair value for him which IMO begins with either a top 15 pick or really good prospect + another good/really good young piece. Cap wise his contract is a great bargain right now and he is in the prime of his career. I've made this point before but it's worth repeating, the return on JVR either at the TDL or this off season will be way more useful to this organization's future success then keeping him and having to sign him to a lucrative long term deal in a few years that will extend long past his prime and the value of which will be determine by his play in his prime.

As for Bozak, I'd also like to see him moved. But his contract isn't as great a bargain, especially for teams who would use him as their 3rd line C, so the return won't be nearly as good. He also strikes me as a good guy to help insulate and mentor some young guys. He's having an impressive career considering that he went undrafted and has been around for the numerous dumpster fire-esque lineups the Leafa have put out over the last few years. I'm sure he could teach Marner and Nylander some stuff, since all 3 of them are undersized right handed shot forwards with great mitts. Marner especially could benefit from having him around since they play at a similar pace. So if the price is right, move him. If not, he'd be one of my top picks to mentor the youth.

Some nice factors to consider in this post. Well done. Bozak is a top 50 center at present points. 2nd line center going by center stats. I would be content keeping him as a third line center at a better cap hit than we are currently getting with him. He would be a good mentor i believe also.

Jvr puts us at the top of the trade deadline interest if he were to be made available. There is not a player supposedly available at this deadline that has a better cap friendly value.

We could capitalize on asset management moving him now at this deadline. Dumps us further in the standings and raises our potential draft winning percentage.

Gauthier doesn't look like he will be any more than a fourth line checking center. Which is about right.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Putting aside the whole Kadri vs Bozak thing, I fail to see how a 30 year old 2nd line center helps a rebuilding team, even if we didn't have a younger option in Kadri. Bozak would just end up leaving in 2 years anyways when his contract is up, so ship him out now for literally anything of value and let Kadri go into next season as the #1C and Nylander as #2. There really isn't much room for Bozak and Kadri, so take the younger one and move on.

Jvr, can still be a great player on this team going forward so I'd only look to trade him if the offers are where they need to be or if it looks like he won't resign here in 2 years. This means no TDL trades, as all you are really getting in those deals is late firsts and some okay prospects, look to move him at the draft if anything.

Take what you can get for Bozak and his .62 career average career. Jvr is great going forward with the identical career point average?

Just the thinking that is common on the board. but common none the less. Common throughout the thinking of G.M's too. Flawed in that our team can get such a higher trade value for the same career points.

I think determining the value is a combination of asset management when it is all boiled down. Jvr gets more expensive, Bozak gets cheaper playing third line center.

Bozak gets you less in teturn but provides the same offense as the higher valued younger player.

I think its prime time to capitalize on Jvr's value in trade before he is a $6,000,000 cap hit with a limited NTC kicking in next year. Moving him enhances our chances of a higher % of winning the lottery.

I believe the value is measured in keep and moved. Bozak has better keeper value and Jvr has better move value. Moving both is a possibility that would inevitably lead to youth coming in and cap flexability.

 

[TheProspector]

Yeah, they are very close players in terms of production and possession.

Bozak is probably a little more useful and valuable because of his faceoff ability.

I agree on perceived value -- most people would probably (erroneously) value JVR higher. And that would falsely due to credentialism or pedigree.

I'd like to keep both. But we need some defensive players around to surround them with, too...

 

[Suntouchable13]

Personally, I don't think that JvR will be worth the 6-7 million dollars a year he will be asking for in 2 years. Bozak, I don't think much of him and will continue not to. I don't believe he is a good player on a good/great team. I'd move them both over the next 2 seasons.

 

[Durrr]

Personally, I don't think that JvR will be worth the 6-7 million dollars a year he will be asking for in 2 years. Bozak, I don't think much of him and will continue not to. I don't believe he is a good player on a good/great team. I'd move them both over the next 2 seasons.

JVR is easily worth the 6-7 million he'll be asking for, that's not even really debatable at this point imo. The guy proved this season that he could produce with even mediocre line mates.

Look at what this team has done since he went down with injury, we've scored something like 9 goals in 12 games.

 

[Menzinger]

I'd have absolutely no issue trading them both.

If I had to choose one, I'd go with JVR. He's younger, and I trust him more to be able to produce with harder usage than Bozak. the main issue though is age.

JVR can/should be traded though, because the Leafs likely won't be competitive until he needs a new contract, which he'll likely want something close to 6-7 million per year over 6 years. And that type of deal takes place mostly in his 30s.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I'd have absolutely no issue trading them both.

If I had to choose one, I'd go with JVR. He's younger, and I trust him more to be able to produce with harder usage than Bozak. the main issue though is age.

JVR can/should be traded though, because the Leafs likely won't be competitive until he needs a new contract, which he'll likely want something close to 6-7 million per year over 6 years. And that type of deal takes place mostly in his 30s.

We could trade both and replace then from the Marlies in Nylander and brown. Big dollars saved on contracts plus the return, plus the better draft winning % effect.

I am hoping lou guts out as many of the big contracts as possible. Young high end prospects gained, picks gained and complete tank gained suits me just fine.

Jvr is not a player i eant to give $6,000,000 in two year either.

 

[Ovate]

We could trade both and replace then from the Marlies in Nylander and brown. Big dollars saved on contracts plus the return, plus the better draft winning % effect.

Or we could keep both and add Nylander and Brown. While I do believe we should trade both of them, the fact that we have Marlies in the pipeline isn't something that should drive that decision.

 

[Ovate]

JVR has been outproducing Bozak while they were in the same situation (on a line with Kessel and then on a line with Parenteau). JVR's average P/G is being dragged down from his days in Philly when he was young and still developing his game. JVR is also several years younger, a couple inches taller, and better at driving possession. I think it's pretty clear that JVR is the better player and that he's a better fit for a rebuild due to his age. Is JVR enough better for Bozak that we shouldn't trade him? No, but that doesn't mean we should settle for a return either.

 

[bunjay]

If JVR ever really starts throwing his weight around like he could...oh man. It would bring back memories of Bertuzzi when he and Naslund looked unstoppable. All else being equal -- it's not, but let's pretend it is -- JVR's physical gifts make him automatically more valuable than Bozak.

Through no fault of his own Bozak also suffers from not having a sexy role. He's not a top line centre, nor is he a 1b or second line centre on most contenders. JVR is arguably a top line winger on most teams.

JVR's finish > Bozak's playmaking.

 

[91Kadri91*]

Yeah, they are very close players in terms of production and possession.

Bozak is probably a little more useful and valuable because of his faceoff ability.

I agree on perceived value -- most people would probably (erroneously) value JVR higher. And that would falsely due to credentialism or pedigree.

I'd like to keep both. But we need some defensive players around to surround them with, too...

No they're not.

 

[Gallagbi]

JVR is a better scorer, younger, and has produced with better linemates. I'd also say he's better defensively and better along the boards.

It's nice the stats are close, but not surprising given Bozak's been stapled to the first line.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Trade them both for all I care. Both are remnants of a core that failed here. If I had to choose to keep one it'd be JVR.