Prospect Info: July 2023 - after draft - Red Wings Prospect voting #7

[Henkka]

Cossa wins 6th round.

#1 LD - Simon Edvinsson 86.8% (6th overall, 1st round, 2021 draft)
#2 C - Marco Kasper 80% (8th overall, 1st round, 2022 draft)
#3 C - Nate Danielson 68.0% (9th overall, 1st round, 2023 draft)
#4 LD - William Wallinder 35.7% (32nd overall, 2nd round 2020 draft)
#5 RD - Axel Sandin Pellikka 43.9% (17th overall, 1st round, 2023 draft)
#6 G - Sebastian Cossa 56,9% (15th overall, 1st round 2021 draft)

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[RabidBadger]

Should be a layup for "The Passenger" this round

 

[Frk It]

Mazur yet again.

Add Buium and/or James for next round, please.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Mazur because we have hit the point where NHL readiness outweighs perceived upside.

I would add James next

 

[PelagicJoe]

Glue soda bomb

 

[RRhoads]

It's a landslide. Can move to 8th. Add James.

 

[NickH8]

Mazur. Then Soderblom then Augustine

 

[WaW]

Curious because I didn't see his name come up during the last time we did these votes two months ago...not that I think he's on say, Mazur's level, but are we completely down on Cross Hanas? 17 points in 30 games as a middle sixer in GR last year in his first taste of pro hockey isn't bad.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Curious because I didn't see his name come up during the last time we did these votes two months ago...not that I think he's on say, Mazur's level, but are we completely down on Cross Hanas? 17 points in 30 games as a middle sixer in GR last year in his first taste of pro hockey isn't bad.

I wouldn't say completely down, but he's in my mix of "enh, his trajectory looks fine but I'm not expecting to get a NHL player" group. Any of those guys can overperform (I think a couple of them probably will) and get themselves right into the mix of "I think there's an interesting player there someday," but we just have too many interesting prospects for me to take Hanas here. After Mazur, Lombardi, AlJo and Soderblom are gone, I think that Hanas will start getting votes.

 

[Frk It]

I wouldn't say completely down, but he's in my mix of "enh, his trajectory looks fine but I'm not expecting to get a NHL player" group. Any of those guys can overperform (I think a couple of them probably will) and get themselves right into the mix of "I think there's an interesting player there someday," but we just have too many interesting prospects for me to take Hanas here. After Mazur, Lombardi, AlJo and Soderblom are gone, I think that Hanas will start getting votes.

Based on what he did in the AHL last year I think it’s kind of silly to put him in that group, and I would be curious to see what other kind of players you are lumping him in with.

While we have a boatload of defensive prospects we are not nearly as deep at forward.

Curious because I didn't see his name come up during the last time we did these votes two months ago...not that I think he's on say, Mazur's level, but are we completely down on Cross Hanas? 17 points in 30 games as a middle sixer in GR last year in his first taste of pro hockey isn't bad.

He was winning the poll for the #10 spot in the threads Henkka was doing back in May. Not sure why we just stopped where we did, but he would have been top 10.

 

[Vector Cereal]

I think at the least Hanas and James should be on there before a vote is cast for Gibson or Cleveland.
Also Buium is in that group for sure

 

[jaster]

Has Hanas improved his skating beyond that of a C league rec player?

 

[Frk It]

Has Hanas improved his skating beyond that of a C league rec player?

Don’t quit your day job, bud (hope it’s not scouting)

 

[lilidk]

Have no idea who's Cleveland and Gibson, but sounds familiar

 

[jaster]

Don’t quit your day job, bud (hope it’s not scouting)

What’s your evaluation of his skating? Did it improve this past year? Was it already good a year ago?

 

[Christien]

Lombardi, add Hanas

 

[Frk It]

View attachment 728471

What’s your evaluation of his skating? Did it improve this past year? Was it already good a year ago?

If it was bad as you continuously say it is they wouldn’t have played him in the top 6 in Grand Rapids last year and he wouldn’t have been able to be as effective as he was.

Full stop.

So either you are wrong or embellishing or both.

I think his skating is below average but not awful. If he was 5’10 I would probably be concerned by it. At his height of like 6’1 or 6’2” I don’t think it hinders him that much.

 

[jaster]

If it was bad as you continuously say it is they wouldn’t have played him in the top 6 in Grand Rapids last year and he wouldn’t have been able to be as effective as he was.

Full stop.

So either you are wrong or embellishing or both.

I think his skating is below average but not awful. If he was 5’10 I would probably be concerned by it. At his height of like 6’1 or 6’2” I don’t think it hinders him that much.

That's not a full stop. Half the AHL are guys whose skating holds them back from the NHL, including a lot of top-6 guys. I mean, yeah, I've been somewhat hyperbolic in the past to drive the point home, but my opinion is that his skating is going to be a big factor in keeping him from being an NHL regular. Look at Taro Hirose (AHL top line player). He's managed 60 NHL games over 5 years, but he's a terrible skater. And Hanas is worse. Maybe Hanas's superior size mitigates that, but I see a somewhat similar trajectory from here on out, career-wise. A quad-A player at best.

 

[Frk It]

That's not a full stop. Half the AHL are guys whose skating holds them back from the NHL, including a lot of top-6 guys. I mean, yeah, I've been somewhat hyperbolic in the past to drive the point home, but my opinion is that his skating is going to be a big factor in keeping him from being an NHL regular. Look at Taro Hirose (AHL top line player). He's managed 60 NHL games over 5 years, but he's a terrible skater. And Hanas is worse. Maybe Hanas's superior size mitigates that, but I see a somewhat similar trajectory from here on out, career-wise. A quad-A player at best.

Ok so can we say I think he might not get to nhl level skating instead of crap like rec league c skater?

I also think the AHL is a good league and guys having success there means something.

 

[Bench]

Guys there's still players I love for like... 4 more votes.

This prospect pool is really, really good.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

Guys there's still players I love for like... 4 more votes.

This prospect pool is really, really good.

And how often do we see franchises with prospect pools that have a super high end prospect like Edvinsson, also be surrounded by the sheer depth at every single position too like we do here.

You have a guy like Buchelnikov, who's probably ranked around like 10-12 for most Wings fans currently, though his "boom" could put him around 4-5 legitimately. Real long shot if I'm being realistic, but it's important that a guy like him is a depth guy for us - and not the one player we're banking on panning out.

Phenomenal scouting since the 2018-19 season. When other franchises start trying to tear down the "Yzerplan", they just simply aren't following along or they have infinite expectations.

 

[Henkka]

Hanas was #10 on the May voting, so he'll be there soon as an option.

 

[jaster]

Ok so can we say I think he might not get to nhl level skating instead of crap like rec league c skater?

I also think the AHL is a good league and guys having success there means something.

Taking this all too seriously, all the time, makes me uncomfortable . No one here is a pro scout. Have fun with it. I like to sometimes be hyperbolic in my language, with both the good and bad, for both players I like and don't like (some combos more frequently than others maybe). And especially when I see a lot of people overlooking an egregiously bad thing, or an unheralded good thing. Take the discussion in the other thread you just had, about Fabbri vs Berggren and where they fit in the lineup. Several people have thrown Fabbri on the 4th line (or traded) and Berggren in the top-6, a couple I've seen put him on the top line. Pretty comical. Fabbri is underrated on this forum because, naturally, prospects (and recent prospect graduates) are consistently overrated here. And Fabbri is an easy target because hE's AlWaYs InJuReD. It's fine. It's expected. But now I'm going to bring balance to the force and probably be hyperbolic every time Fabbri makes a good play this season

The AHL is a good league, sure. But it's not the NHL. And therefor guys having success there might mean something. It doesn't necessarily mean something. Again, consider the number of top AHL players who have never had much more than a cup of coffee in the NHL. Maybe Hanas makes it, I of course can't rule it out 100%. I never would for a young kid in that league. As long as there's still some runway and potential for development, there's a chance. But I'm also not going to hesitate to point out flaws and cast doubts. They can't all make it, and Hanas is an easy one for me to put near the bottom of the probability list.

I'm now thinking back to all my posts on Madison Bowey when he was in Detroit. I hammered on that guy, plenty of hyperbolic language. I don't remember anyone batting an eye, other than the few people who thought he was actually good lol. But Cross Hanas should be off-limits for a fraction of the shade I threw on Bowey? Why? Because he's a prospect? It's the same thing I used to do with Pulkkinen, and Tvrdon, and Frk, and Ehn, and Saarijarvi, and more recently, McIsaac, and Tuomisto, and now Hanas. All guys with a massive flaw in their game that I felt would hold them back from becoming an NHL regular. Flaws that were apparent. Still, they all had plenty of cheerleaders. If fringe prospects can have fan clubs who overrate them, they can stand to have detractors that sometimes get hyperbolic

 

[Frk It]

Taking this all too seriously, all the time, makes me uncomfortable . No one here is a pro scout. Have fun with it. I like to sometimes be hyperbolic in my language, with both the good and bad, for both players I like and don't like (some combos more frequently than others maybe). And especially when I see a lot of people overlooking an egregiously bad thing, or an unheralded good thing. Take the discussion in the other thread you just had, about Fabbri vs Berggren and where they fit in the lineup. Several people have thrown Fabbri on the 4th line (or traded) and Berggren in the top-6, a couple I've seen put him on the top line. Pretty comical. Fabbri is underrated on this forum because, naturally, prospects (and recent prospect graduates) are consistently overrated here. And Fabbri is an easy target because hE's AlWaYs InJuReD. It's fine. It's expected. But now I'm going to bring balance to the force and probably be hyperbolic every time Fabbri makes a good play this season

The AHL is a good league, sure. But it's not the NHL. And therefor guys having success there might mean something. It doesn't necessarily mean something. Again, consider the number of top AHL players who have never had much more than a cup of coffee in the NHL. Maybe Hanas makes it, I of course can't rule it out 100%. I never would for a young kid in that league. As long as there's still some runway and potential for development, there's a chance. But I'm also not going to hesitate to point out flaws and cast doubts. They can't all make it, and Hanas is an easy one for me to put near the bottom of the probability list.

I'm now thinking back to all my posts on Madison Bowey when he was in Detroit. I hammered on that guy, plenty of hyperbolic language. I don't remember anyone batting an eye, other than the few people who thought he was actually good lol. But Cross Hanas should be off-limits for a fraction of the shade I threw on Bowey? Why? Because he's a prospect? It's the same thing I used to do with Pulkkinen, and Tvrdon, and Frk, and Ehn, and Saarijarvi, and more recently, McIsaac, and Tuomisto, and now Hanas. All guys with a massive flaw in their game that I felt would hold them back from becoming an NHL regular. Flaws that were apparent. Still, they all had plenty of cheerleaders. If fringe prospects can have fan clubs who overrate them, they can stand to have detractors that sometimes get hyperbolic

Lol I have always been a very serious/literal person for the most part, and also don’t have a lot of patience… so sorry about that.

I think once you get to this part of prospect pool you are dealing with a number of guys who have flaws. It’s just what flaws you are ok with and what ones aren’t you ok with. Hanas still needs to improve his first few steps, Buchelnikov still needs to gain 20 lbs, James/Buium/Savage need to show us more offense, etc.

In general I think it’s more constructive to try to discuss players game as it actually is, but I know I have embellished with players I don’t like too over the years. Never really had much time for Dekeyser as a player, probably was overly harsh on him a bunch.

 

[jaster]

Lol I have always been a very serious/literal person for the most part, and also don’t have a lot of patience… so sorry about that.

I think once you get to this part of prospect pool you are dealing with a number of guys who have flaws. It’s just what flaws you are ok with and what ones aren’t you ok with. Hanas still needs to improve his first few steps, Buchelnikov still needs to gain 20 lbs, James/Buium/Savage need to show us more offense, etc.

In general I think it’s more constructive to try to discuss players game as it actually is, but I know I have embellished with players I don’t like too over the years. Never really had much time for Dekeyser as a player, probably was overly harsh on him a bunch.

No apology necessary, all good.

You're right about flaws you can tolerate vs. not tolerate. We all have our biases based on what we think are the flaws, or combination of flaws, that hold players back or not. I like to think I discuss those things seriously as much as I kinda joke about them. But maybe not. I don't review my own posts lol.

I do think players have to have a lot of other things go right to overcome poor skating. More so than almost every other attribute anyway. Poor compete is probably the biggest red flag for me, but poor skating is right behind that.