Joseph vs Formenton

[Agent Zub]

If it came down to keeping only one of them. Who do you take?

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[bert]

If it came down to keeping only one of them. Who do you take?

They have to keep both what's this poll about? Whats the logic here. Sens need to be hard to play against too. Quite clearly with a gun to my head it's Formenton. Most underrated player on the sens on hf boards. They are young and inexpensive, exactly the types of players you need to fill out the bottom of your roster.

 

[Agent Zub]

They have to keep both what's this poll about? Whats the logic here. Sens need to be hard to play against too. Quite clearly with a gun to my head it's Formenton. Most underrated player on the sens on hf boards. They are young and inexpensive, exactly the types of players you need to fill out the bottom of your roster.

they are both good player with potential who may both go the way of Brown in wanting higher salary. I think its easy to see a future in which both want a 4m/5m payday. and no way we can do both.

 

[saskriders]

I keep Formenton because I see his skill set as more unique. That speed is so deadly and if he can ever find some breakaway moves that work it will be amazing.

 

[SensontheRush]

Joseph because you don't have to worry about THE scandal.

 

[Akrapovince]

Formenton is a future Goodrow, Coleman, Hagel type player. With that being said, it all comes down to value.

I’d rather keep Formenton but if we’re getting hypothetically and for conversation sake a first for him and a third/fourth Joseph, you have to get rid of Formenton.

 

[bert]

Formenton is a future Goodrow, Coleman, Hagel type player. With that being said, it all comes down to value.

I’d rather keep Formenton but if we’re getting hypothetically and for conversation sake a first for him and a third/fourth Joseph, you have to get rid of Formenton.

None of those players are close to as good as him at the same age. Joseph worth more than a 3rd round pick. Don't think they have to choose on these guys yet.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Haven't seen enough of Joseph yet to really make an informed decision.

Ask again in January or so.

 

[JD1]

With the top 6 that we have for the next two years, neither of these guys is going to get the opportunities offensively to put big numbers that lead to big contracts. At best they'll end up in that elite 3rd line level, playing super pk minutes and shutdown roles. Very valuable minutes, but not minutes that lead to big contracts

 

[toxic poster]

this is a conversation for next off season as some younger prospects start kicking the door down and we get a little tighter on the cap

 

[bicboi64]

I say Formenton based off that speed for now, but need to see more of Joseph

 

[Psycroptic86]

Went with Formenton. I would like to see more of Joseph before declaring anything.

 

[Qward]

Luckily, we can have both.

 

[SENStastic]

Luckily, we can have both.

Not for long though. One of will most certainly needs to be traded by next summer to make room for Greig and save some money for the offseason signings for Debrincat, Stutzle, Pinto and Zub. Would like to see one more full season of each on our roster before deciding who's better to keep long term.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Formenton, it's not even close.

 

[bert]

Not for long though. One of will most certainly needs to be traded by next summer to make room for Greig and save some money for the offseason signings for Debrincat, Stutzle, Pinto and Zub. Would like to see one more full season of each on our roster before deciding who's better to keep long term.

At the very least 1 full season. I don't think this is absolutely the case. Debrincat may need to be moved depending on what they can sign Stutzle for and if he is even willing to extend. Then they'll keep both.

 

[Sun God Nika]

we need to keep both.

we gave away Brown for nothing.

a 2 line team isn't going to get the job done.

 

[Xspyrit]

None of those players are close to as good as him at the same age. Joseph worth more than a 3rd round pick. Don't think they have to choose on these guys yet.

I don't get the "he'll be decent one day" vibe

Kid just scored 18 ES/PK goals in his 22 y/o rookie season and LED the NHL in short handed goals. I actually think he's a strong candidate to become the NHL leader for the most short handed goals, and pretty soon. The actual leaders are getting older

Active NHL Players - Short-Handed Goals Leaders

Active NHL players who hold the all-time record for the most short-handed goals in NHL. All-time short-handed goal leaders for active NHL players.

www.quanthockey.com

He's already 71st on that list, 1 less goal than Claude Giroux...

Sure he doesn't have the Goodrow/Coleman experience but he's already equal to them in production

AF 2021-22 : 0.41 PPG
BC 2021-22 : 0.41 PPG
BG 2021-22 : 0.42 PPG

And he has that Elite McDavid-esque speed

if we’re getting hypothetically and for conversation sake a first for him and a third/fourth Joseph

Just want to remind people of this thread below. Not any kind of "first". People would not be ok with a late first for him.

Proposal: - Would you have traded Alex Formenton for a late 1st round pick at the past deadline?

I am very curious about this Alex Formenton is 22 y/o, he has played 77 games with 18 goals and 31 points in 15:26 TOI/GP and nearly 2 mins of PK per game. League leading 5 goals short-handed, none of his points came on the PP and he doesn't get a lot of PP There's a stretch earlier this...

forums.hfboards.com

I'd trade Formenton if the goal was to get a Chychurn/Carlo but we stupidly gave away Connor Brown so we can NOT trade Formenton and Joseph now

Teams who only have a Top-6 don't win much in the NHL, and it's hard to even make the playoffs if you're built like that.

 

[SENStastic]

At the very least 1 full season. I don't think this is absolutely the case. Debrincat may need to be moved depending on what they can sign Stutzle for and if he is even willing to extend. Then they'll keep both.

Would be so painful if we couldn't extended Debrincat, it would mean we're actually regressing than progressing and burned a year trying to compete for no good reason. That with Giroux likely taking a step back does not bode well for our progress if he ends up being dealt elsewhere. I get we'll recoup the value spent to get him, but we'll lose 2 years of progress at the same time, while also opening a big hole in the top 6, and another one the year after once Giroux leaves. I'd honestly rather lose both Joseph and Formenton rather than Debrincat.

 

[Xspyrit]

Not for long though. One of will most certainly needs to be traded by next summer to make room for Greig and save some money for the offseason signings for Debrincat, Stutzle, Pinto and Zub. Would like to see one more full season of each on our roster before deciding who's better to keep long term.

We have 34 M$ in cap space for 2023-24. My extensions below are very approximative, the important thing here is the overall total. Stutzle/DeBrincat accepting to be paid like the rest of the core (have to cross our fingers on this)

Tim Stutzle at 8.0
Alex DeBrincat at 8.0
Shane Pinto at 2.0
Alex Formenton at 2.0
Mathieu Joseph at 2.0
Artem Zub at 5.0
Erik Brannstrom at 2.0

29 M$

So we would have 5 M$ left and a lineup like this :

Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
DeBrincat - Stutzle - Giroux
Formenton - Pinto - Joseph
Kelly

Chabot - Zub
Sanderson - Zaitsev
Brannstrom

Forsberg

Guys like Greig, Kastelic, Crookshank, JBD, Thomson, Sogaard, etc will still be cheap and will be asked to fill out the roster

But it seems pretty obvious that Zaitsev will be moved by then to save money (or create cap space hopefully)

For 2024-25, most of the team will be signed and all of Murray, Ryan and Del Zotto dead cap hit will come off the books (as well as Zaitsev if we kept him)

We're fine as long as we are ready to spend near the cap and our management doesn't make mistakes, very small margin for error. The the following year, Giroux AAV comes off the books to allow the raise for a guy like Sanderson/Pinto for example.

 

[TeamRenzo]

They have to keep both what's this poll about? Whats the logic here. Sens need to be hard to play against too. Quite clearly with a gun to my head it's Formenton. Most underrated player on the sens on hf boards. They are young and inexpensive, exactly the types of players you need to fill out the bottom of your roster.

My thoughts exactly!

 

[Cosmix]

I don't get the "he'll be decent one day" vibe

Kid just scored 18 ES/PK goals in his 22 y/o rookie season and LED the NHL in short handed goals. I actually think he's a strong candidate to become the NHL leader for the most short handed goals, and pretty soon. The actual leaders are getting older

Active NHL Players - Short-Handed Goals Leaders

Active NHL players who hold the all-time record for the most short-handed goals in NHL. All-time short-handed goal leaders for active NHL players.

www.quanthockey.com

He's already 71st on that list, 1 less goal than Claude Giroux...

Sure he doesn't have the Goodrow/Coleman experience but he's already equal to them in production

AF 2021-22 : 0.41 PPG
BC 2021-22 : 0.41 PPG
BG 2021-22 : 0.42 PPG

And he has that Elite McDavid-esque speed



Just want to remind people of this thread below. Not any kind of "first". People would not be ok with a late first for him.

Proposal: - Would you have traded Alex Formenton for a late 1st round pick at the past deadline?

I am very curious about this Alex Formenton is 22 y/o, he has played 77 games with 18 goals and 31 points in 15:26 TOI/GP and nearly 2 mins of PK per game. League leading 5 goals short-handed, none of his points came on the PP and he doesn't get a lot of PP There's a stretch earlier this...

forums.hfboards.com

I'd trade Formenton if the goal was to get a Chychurn/Carlo but we stupidly gave away Connor Brown so we can NOT trade Formenton and Joseph now

Teams who only have a Top-6 don't win much in the NHL, and it's hard to even make the playoffs if you're built like that.

I agree that the C. Brown trade for a 2nd round pick is DUMB! I view it as another budget move rather than icing a better roster. I might forgive the move if it creates budget room for a top 4 D and the 2nd round pick is spent as part of that acquisition.

 

[DrEasy]

Put me on #teamjoseph, because:

- the return on a Formenton trade would likely be much higher
- Hockey Canada uncertainty (which I realize potentially contradicts the previous point)
- Joseph, in addition to his speed, has a lot of hockey IQ and underrated finish IMO. I think we're going to be very pleasantly surprised by his output this year.

 

[Agent Zub]

We have 34 M$ in cap space for 2023-24. My extensions below are very approximative, the important thing here is the overall total. Stutzle/DeBrincat accepting to be paid like the rest of the core (have to cross our fingers on this)

Tim Stutzle at 8.0
Alex DeBrincat at 8.0
Shane Pinto at 2.0
Alex Formenton at 2.0
Mathieu Joseph at 2.0
Artem Zub at 5.0
Erik Brannstrom at 2.0

29 M$

So we would have 5 M$ left and a lineup like this :

Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
DeBrincat - Stutzle - Giroux
Formenton - Pinto - Joseph
Kelly

Chabot - Zub
Sanderson - Zaitsev
Brannstrom

Forsberg

Guys like Greig, Kastelic, Crookshank, JBD, Thomson, Sogaard, etc will still be cheap and will be asked to fill out the roster

But it seems pretty obvious that Zaitsev will be moved by then to save money (or create cap space hopefully)

For 2024-25, most of the team will be signed and all of Murray, Ryan and Del Zotto dead cap hit will come off the books (as well as Zaitsev if we kept him)

We're fine as long as we are ready to spend near the cap and our management doesn't make mistakes, very small margin for error. The the following year, Giroux AAV comes off the books to allow the raise for a guy like Sanderson/Pinto for example.

you're probably underpaying all those players by a mill. Zub and Brann by like 500k.

 

[SENStastic]

We have 34 M$ in cap space for 2023-24. My extensions below are very approximative, the important thing here is the overall total. Stutzle/DeBrincat accepting to be paid like the rest of the core (have to cross our fingers on this)

Tim Stutzle at 8.0
Alex DeBrincat at 8.0
Shane Pinto at 2.0
Alex Formenton at 2.0
Mathieu Joseph at 2.0
Artem Zub at 5.0
Erik Brannstrom at 2.0

29 M$

So we would have 5 M$ left and a lineup like this :

Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
DeBrincat - Stutzle - Giroux
Formenton - Pinto - Joseph
Kelly

Chabot - Zub
Sanderson - Zaitsev
Brannstrom

Forsberg

Guys like Greig, Kastelic, Crookshank, JBD, Thomson, Sogaard, etc will still be cheap and will be asked to fill out the roster

But it seems pretty obvious that Zaitsev will be moved by then to save money (or create cap space hopefully)

For 2024-25, most of the team will be signed and all of Murray, Ryan and Del Zotto dead cap hit will come off the books (as well as Zaitsev if we kept him)

We're fine as long as we are ready to spend near the cap and our management doesn't make mistakes, very small margin for error. The the following year, Giroux AAV comes off the books to allow the raise for a guy like Sanderson/Pinto for example.

Again, way underestimating young studs extensions.
Stutzle is not getting Norris money, he'll be 9M+. Debrincat closer to 10M. Pinto at 2m? We'd be lucky if he's under 3.5M. People are really undervaluing the cost of retaining quality players, especially for a team like Ottawa. We'll have to pay fair market value, I don't see any of them taking a team discount for us.