Value of: Jordan Eberle to the Leafs.

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

In my Alex Wennberg to the Leafs thread I mentioned Seattle had a couple players I wanted.

One of them is Wennberg.

The other, at least in terms of forwards is Jordan Eberle.

I want Jordan Eberle for a different reason than I want Alex Wennberg.

Alex Wennberg is somebody I want for the PK because the PK just straight up sucks.

Jordan Eberle is the depth scorer I want, I just don't know that Mcmann Tavares Robertson is a 3rd line that will get it done in a playoff series.

But Eberle Tavares and Jarnkrok is something I'd have alot more confidence in.

I think that would give Toronto 3 scoring lines and I think come playoff time whoever wins will need that, I think stars cancel eachother out, I think it will come down to the depth and I think Jordan Eberle would be a key addition.

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[TheImpatientPanther]

How much cap space does TOR actually have?
Feels like their fans want 3 or 4 players brought in with less than $3-4 mil in space?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

It seems like you are going on gut instinct here rather than any actual data. Statistically, Robertson would have more goals and points than Eberle this year if Robertson had player Eberle's ES and PP minutes.

If Eberle came to Toronto he would get Robertson's ice time. Why do we think he would provide more scoring than NR? He is a bigger cap hit and would have an acquisition cost. I am not sure I get the upside of this move.

I'm assuming you meant to qoute me and not him? Because the post you qouted has absolutely nothing to do with anything you said.

 

[conFABulator]

In my Alex Wennberg to the Leafs thread I mentioned Seattle had a couple players I wanted.

One of them is Wennberg.

The other, at least in terms of forwards is Jordan Eberle.

I want Jordan Eberle for a different reason than I want Alex Wennberg.

Alex Wennberg is somebody I want for the PK because the PK just straight up sucks.

Jordan Eberle is the depth scorer I want, I just don't know that Mcmann Tavares Robertson is a 3rd line that will get it done in a playoff series.

But Eberle Tavares and Jarnkrok is something I'd have alot more confidence in.

I think that would give Toronto 3 scoring lines and I think come playoff time whoever wins will need that, I think stars cancel eachother out, I think it will come down to the depth and I think Jordan Eberle would be a key addition.

It seems like you are going on gut instinct here rather than any actual data. Statistically, Robertson would have more goals and points than Eberle this year if Robertson had player Eberle's ES and PP minutes.

If Eberle came to Toronto he would get Robertson's ice time. Why do we think he would provide more scoring than NR? He is a bigger cap hit and would have an acquisition cost. I am not sure I get the upside of this move.

I'm assuming you meant to qoute me and not him? Because the post you qouted has absolutely nothing to do with anything you said.

Yes, changed it. Thanks

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

It seems like you are going on gut instinct here rather than any actual data. Statistically, Robertson would have more goals and points than Eberle this year if Robertson had player Eberle's ES and PP minutes.

If Eberle came to Toronto he would get Robertson's ice time. Why do we think he would provide more scoring than NR? He is a bigger cap hit and would have an acquisition cost. I am not sure I get the upside of this move.


Yes, changed it. Thanks

First of all I like Robertson, I have said for awhile now, I think he has a hell of a shot and health permitting I think he's capable of being a 25 goal scorer, so this is not a player that I hate.

That being said you tried to use Data to suggest that he would have more goals and points than Eberle, if he was given Eberle ice time and PP time, I don't know where or how you came to that conclusion because there is no possible way we can know that, you call it Data but you yourself are going on gut instinct.

What I do know 100% for certain is that today Jordan Eberle is a better player than Nick Robertson, will that be the case in 3 years? Maybe not, but TODAY Jordan Eberle is a better player than Nick Robertson and It's not up for debate.

Personally I don't want 2 rookies on the 3rd line come playoff time, and no Knies is not the same, he was on the team that won a round last year, he's been on the team since day 1.

Robertson and Mcmann haven't been, they don't have the experience of winning a round and they weren't here from day 1.

Robertson and Mcmann could make the 3rd line a weak point come playoff time.

If you bring in Jordan Eberle and hold Jarnkrok out until the playoff start you don't need to worry about that because Jordan Eberle has been a big game player going back to his days in Junior.

I want this team to get better and right now a 3rd line of Eberle Tavares Jarnkrok, or even Eberle Tavares Mcmann if you you wanted to put Jarnkrok on the 4th line.

Is better than a line of Robertson Tavares Mcmann.

It simply is.

 

[conFABulator]

First of all I like Robertson, I have said for awhile now, I think he has a hell of a shot and health permitting I think he's capable of being a 25 goal scorer, so this is not a player that I hate.

That being said you tried to use Data to suggest that he would have more goals and points than Eberle, if he was given Eberle ice time and PP time, I don't know where or how you came to that conclusion because there is no possible way we can know that, you call it Data but you yourself are going on gut instinct.

What I do know 100% for certain is that today Jordan Eberle is a better player than Nick Robertson, will that be the case in 3 years? Maybe not, but TODAY Jordan Eberle is a better player than Nick Robertson and It's not up for debate.

Personally I don't want 2 rookies on the 3rd line come playoff time, and no Knies is not the same, he was on the team that won a round last year, he's been on the team since day 1.

Robertson and Mcmann haven't been, they don't have the experience of winning a round and they weren't here from day 1.

Robertson and Mcmann could make the 3rd line a weak point come playoff time.

If you bring in Jordan Eberle and hold Jarnkrok out until the playoff start you don't need to worry about that because Jordan Eberle has been a big game player going back to his days in Junior.

I want this team to get better and right now a 3rd line of Eberle Tavares Jarnkrok, or even Eberle Tavares Mcmann if you you wanted to put Jarnkrok on the 4th line.

Is better than a line of Robertson Tavares Mcmann.

It simply is.

I appreciate you declaring you are not a NR hater, you didn't come across as one but it is good to know this is a hockey discussion and not just someone with an axe to grind.

My assessment was based on data. NR has played almost exactly half of the minutes JE has this year. I simple doubled NR's stats and it came up as more goals and points than JE has this year. Not exactly scientific, but more than an instinct. You could argue that if NR for steady, increased ice time that his stats would more than double to especially if he got too PP minutes like JE does.

I do get not wanting to rely on rookies and I like JE as a player but we don't know if JE would out produce a young, healthy (this year) fully of energy rookie.

We do know that he is $5.5M on the cap and we can't fit that in without a major subtraction from our roster. We might even have difficulty fitting him in at 75% retained, which would require us paying a price to a second team to take the 25%.

We just paid a 3rd and a 6th for Lyubushkin with 75% retention. It was retention on a smaller amount too. What would Eberle cost us? 2nd and 4th? We don't have a second. Is this the guy you want to pay a first for as a rental? Is the upgrade on NR enough for that?

That was my point.

 

[belair]

I appreciate you declaring you are not a NR hater, you didn't come across as one but it is good to know this is a hockey discussion and not just someone with an axe to grind.

My assessment was based on data. NR has played almost exactly half of the minutes JE has this year. I simple doubled NR's stats and it came up as more goals and points than JE has this year. Not exactly scientific, but more than an instinct. You could argue that if NR for steady, increased ice time that his stats would more than double to especially if he got too PP minutes like JE does.

I do get not wanting to rely on rookies and I like JE as a player but we don't know if JE would out produce a young, healthy (this year) fully of energy rookie.

We do know that he is $5.5M on the cap and we can't fit that in without a major subtraction from our roster. We might even have difficulty fitting him in at 75% retained, which would require us paying a price to a second team to take the 25%.

We just paid a 3rd and a 6th for Lyubushkin with 75% retention. It was retention on a smaller amount too. What would Eberle cost us? 2nd and 4th? We don't have a second. Is this the guy you want to pay a first for as a rental? Is the upgrade on NR enough for that?

That was my point.

Robertson has absolutely no track record of production at the NHL level. 'Simply' doubling Robertson's production based on icetime isn't scientific. It's nonsense.

Eberle would be a hands down upgrade over Robertson. Eberle averages 50 points a year dating back to when he was Robertson's age.

That being said, I don't think that Eberle is helping the Leafs enough for what he'd realistically cost. They have very little trade capital to work with and even less cap space. He falls into that expensive rental category that Toronto wants to avoid.

 

[conFABulator]

Robertson has absolutely no track record of production at the NHL level. 'Simply' doubling Robertson's production based on icetime isn't scientific. It's nonsense.

Eberle would be a hands down upgrade over Robertson. Eberle averages 50 points a year dating back to when he was Robertson's age.

That being said, I don't think that Eberle is helping the Leafs enough for what he'd realistically cost. They have very little trade capital to work with and even less cap space. He falls into that expensive rental category that Toronto wants to avoid.

Nonsense? You think projections based on performance is nonsense? It's a small sample size but it is not nonsense.

In the past six seasons, Eberle has passed 45 points exactly once. What is this track record of success you refer to. Robertson in his career is already at 31 point pace and Eberle plays 70% more minutes per game, with lots of PP time and points. Why do we think he would get that ice time on Toronto?

Speaking of nonsense, can you tell me what the acquisition cost of Eberle would be a what moves the Leafs have to make to fit him in? My point was that this is a completely impractical suggestion. Prove me wrong, tell me how this could possibly work.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Nonsense? You think projections based on performance is nonsense? It's a small sample size but it is not nonsense.

In the past six seasons, Eberle has passed 45 points exactly once. What is this track record of success you refer to. Robertson in his career is already at 31 point pace and Eberle plays 70% more minutes per game, with lots of PP time and points. Why do we think he would get that ice time on Toronto?

Speaking of nonsense, can you tell me what the acquisition cost of Eberle would be a what moves the Leafs have to make to fit him in? My point was that this is a completely impractical suggestion. Prove me wrong, tell me how this could possibly work.

Making the money work is the easy part, there is always ways to do that, we just saw that with the Leafs, Ducks, Canes trade.

Another way to clear some space, and I wouldn't want to do this is send Nick Robertson down.

He doesn't need waivers so He could be sent down, That's almost 800K right there.

There is also sending money back.

Lots of ways to do this if they wanted too.

 

[belair]

Nonsense? You think projections based on performance is nonsense? It's a small sample size but it is not nonsense.

In the past six seasons, Eberle has passed 45 points exactly once. What is this track record of success you refer to. Robertson in his career is already at 31 point pace and Eberle plays 70% more minutes per game, with lots of PP time and points. Why do we think he would get that ice time on Toronto?

Speaking of nonsense, can you tell me what the acquisition cost of Eberle would be a what moves the Leafs have to make to fit him in? My point was that this is a completely impractical suggestion. Prove me wrong, tell me how this could possibly work.

Is that including last season and this season and the two COVID shortened seasons? I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by throwing that nugget of information out there. But Eberle would have put those numbers up if the games actually occurred. Based on his actual production.

Robertson has no NHL production to date. Because he's an undersized forward with limited ability at this point in his career. He may at some point hit another level, but it's pretty close to not occurring with the Leafs.

Eberle's production probably would dip if he played less. But if he'd be playing less, that's a sign that you shouldn't be trading for him.

 

[conFABulator]

Is that including last season and this season and the two COVID shortened seasons? I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by throwing that nugget of information out there. But Eberle would have put those numbers up if the games actually occurred. Based on his actual production.

Robertson has no NHL production to date. Because he's an undersized forward with limited ability at this point in his career. He may at some point hit another level, but it's pretty close to not occurring with the Leafs.

Eberle's production probably would dip if he played less. But if he'd be playing less, that's a sign that you shouldn't be trading for him.

What I am "trying to prove" is that I don't understand what this track record of performance is that makes Eberle such an attractive target for us to give up assets and destroy our salary structure for.

I am not saying NR is better than Eberle. In fact, I think Eberle would be a good add and probably better than NR. What I am saying is that:

a) There are lots of better targets than Eberle so what is the obsession with him?

b) The acquisition cost and salary of Eberle basically make this idea a non-starter

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Is that including last season and this season and the two COVID shortened seasons? I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by throwing that nugget of information out there. But Eberle would have put those numbers up if the games actually occurred. Based on his actual production.

Robertson has no NHL production to date. Because he's an undersized forward with limited ability at this point in his career. He may at some point hit another level, but it's pretty close to not occurring with the Leafs.

Eberle's production probably would dip if he played less. But if he'd be playing less, that's a sign that you shouldn't be trading for him.

Or it could be a sign that Eberle went to a deeper more talented team.

Let's face it there is no Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares or Rielly on Seattle

 

[belair]

What I am "trying to prove" is that I don't understand what this track record of performance is that makes Eberle such an attractive target for us to give up assets and destroy our salary structure for.

I am not saying NR is better than Eberle. In fact, I think Eberle would be a good add and probably better than NR. What I am saying is that:

a) There are lots of better targets than Eberle so what is the obsession with him?

b) The acquisition cost and salary of Eberle basically make this idea a non-starter

I'm not trying to suggest that Eberle would be an attractive target for the Leafs. In all of my posts I've even suggested how poor of a fit he'd be, considering cost.

Just kindly stating how silly it is suggesting that he and Robertson are equals.

 

[conFABulator]

I'm not trying to suggest that Eberle would be an attractive target for the Leafs. In all of my posts I've even suggested how poor of a fit he'd be, considering cost.

Just kindly stating how silly it is suggesting that he and Robertson are equals.

...and I never suggested they were equals. I was pointing out that Eberle was not so much better than Robertson they it would justify to acquisition cost and salary cap problems it would create.

I even said that Eberle is better right now just not addressing our primary issue and therefore not worth it.