Player Discussion Jonathan Drouin - Invisible Man Edition

[cphabs]

Imagine how sick it would be if Drouin fulfilled his potential. Sigh...

2nd coming of Theo Fluery IMO So close but the kid has no soul.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Weather he learns to be more trusted and consistent in the 200' game, He's not going to drive offense on his own or by playing with players younger or less skilled than him. Right now, Domi is the only good fit. We need more offensive top 6 talent and proven top 2C's

Drouin’s 200 ft game isn’t changing no matter how much you want it too. He will always be a liability defensively. If he tries to play mistake free hockey, we’ll still give up goals when he’s on the ice while he doesn’t contribute offensively which is the only reason he’s in the NHL. The only hope with this kid is he can put up the points to make up for his defensive shortcomings. 50-60 points is underwhelming for what he brings in every other aspect, not to mention his consistency.

 

[Kimota]

Why though? He's been given prime PP minutes. And he has to actually earn prime ice-time at ES. Tatar earned his ice-time over him and if Drouin isn't creating enough offense at ES, he's not going to get ice-time over a player that is actually responsible defensively.

We all know that Drouin has talent, but talent alone means nothing. He has to actually play hard, stay engaged and use his head.

But not everybody has to be treated the same way, esp, in this day and age. Cutting icetime and thinking "prove me wrong" has the opposite effects for some guys. We have to accept that Drouin is a streaky guy.

And it is reductive and dinosaur thinking to go I have two players that don't produce, one is good defensively, one is bad defensively, I'll play more the guy that is good defensively. If anything the opposite should be the way to go cause the skilled guy can explode at anytime.

 

[Captain Mountain]

But not everybody has to be treated the same way, esp, in this day and age. Cutting icetime and thinking "prove me wrong" has the opposite effects for some guys. We have to accept that Drouin is a streaky guy.

And it is reductive and dinosaur thinking to go I have two players that don't produce, one is good defensively, one is bad defensively, I'll play more the guy that is good defensively. If anything the opposite should be the way to go cause the skilled guy can explode at anytime.

Julien's pretty much entirely abandoned development priorities for the rest of the season. It's why he's screwing around with Kotkaniemi too.

And lets be real, if you want to win, you want to allocate more ice-time to players that have more of a net positive effect. Habs consistently get outchanced when Drouin is on the ice and based on shuffling lines, he's the biggest culprit why.

And any player can explode at any time. Look at Kulak.

Lets also remember that Drouin is still getting prime ice-time on the PP. Those are the choicest scoring minutes there are. If he starts producing there, it gives him a pretty clear route for him to get more ES minutes.

 

[LaP]

Julien's pretty much entirely abandoned development priorities for the rest of the season. It's why he's screwing around with Kotkaniemi too.

And lets be real, if you want to win, you want to allocate more ice-time to players that have more of a net positive effect. Habs consistently get outchanced when Drouin is on the ice and based on shuffling lines, he's the biggest culprit why.

And any player can explode at any time. Look at Kulak.

Lets also remember that Drouin is still getting prime ice-time on the PP. Those are the choicest scoring minutes there are. If he starts producing there, it gives him a pretty clear route for him to get more ES minutes.

It's strange we have been doing that for 25 years now without much success.

 

[CalgarySnow]

How could you know that?[/QUOTE]

Because nothing about his game has changed and even the coach alluded to him not putting the effort in during practice.

 

[groovejuice]

Mistakes happens. Find a creative solution to repair it.

Easier said than done, I'm afraid. Drouin has done very little to ingratiate himself with GMs around the league. In a trade he won't command anywhere near what Tampa got for him from the Nobargain guy.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Drouin’s 200 ft game isn’t changing no matter how much you want it too. He will always be a liability defensively. If he tries to play mistake free hockey, we’ll still give up goals when he’s on the ice while he doesn’t contribute offensively which is the only reason he’s in the NHL. The only hope with this kid is he can put up the points to make up for his defensive shortcomings. 50-60 points is underwhelming for what he brings in every other aspect, not to mention his consistency.

I think it's reasonable to expect some more maturity moving forward. How much more?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Like in Tampa?

Yes. He actually produced very well for a 20 and 21 year old for them. Do you think he never ever grows from where he was at age 20? I guess you do.

 

[Captain Mountain]

It's strange we have been doing that for 25 years now without much success.

No "we" haven't. Therrien was incredibly bad at that. So was Carbonneau. Vigneault wasn't great at it too.

allocating more ice-time to players that have more of a net-positive effect doesn't mean play grinders all the time, play players that play the "right" way or play guys that don't make mistakes.

It means playing guys that can outperform the opposition. Drouin's offensively gifted, but his significant defensive shortcomings severely limit his ES upside. Anything he creates offensively he gives up the other way. Its why he's a more of a PP guy.

Plus, Montreal's biggest issues is that they've had 2 forwards in the last decade hit 70 points. They need an elite offensive forward or two.

If Montreal had an elite player (especially someone who can create space and score), Montreal would be much better off. So would Drouin, since if Montreal had a weapon like that, their PP wouldn't be so putrid, and Drouin probably hits 60+ points with a real PP.

 

[LaP]

No "we" haven't. Therrien was incredibly bad at that. So was Carbonneau. Vigneault wasn't great at it too.

allocating more ice-time to players that have more of a net-positive effect doesn't mean play grinders all the time, play players that play the "right" way or play guys that don't make mistakes.

It means playing guys that can outperform the opposition. Drouin's offensively gifted, but his significant defensive shortcomings severely limit his ES upside. Anything he creates offensively he gives up the other way. Its why he's a more of a PP guy.

Plus, Montreal's biggest issues is that they've had 2 forwards in the last decade hit 70 points. They need an elite offensive forward or two.

If Montreal had an elite player (especially someone who can create space and score), Montreal would be much better off. So would Drouin, since if Montreal had a weapon like that, their PP wouldn't be so putrid, and Drouin probably hits 60+ points with a real PP.

Do you really think Weal and Thompson can outperform the competition for more than 20-30 games? If yes let's just agree to disagree. For me icing Weal and Thompson is the last 25 years in a nutshell. That's actually what we have been doing for 25 years.

 

[LaP]

Yes. He actually produced very well for a 20 and 21 year old for them. Do you think he never ever grows from where he was at age 20? I guess you do.

Actually some players never grow. In fact i think it's more common to see a player not improve upon his first 3 years than seeing a player significantly improve in the middle of his 20ies. Daigle best moments was his first 3 seasons. Same for Falloon.

There's incremental progress to be made in the middle of the 20ies but usually at that point what you see is what you get. Guys like St Louis are the exception more than the norm. Drouin could make some progress and become a Patch but more than that would be extremely surprising.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Do you really think Weal and Thompson can outperform the competition for more than 20-30 games? If yes let's just agree to disagree. For me icing Weal and Thompson is the last 25 years in a nutshell. That's actually what we have been doing for 25 years.

Do you honestly think they'd be playing in the spots they're playing in right now for 20-30 games? Really?

Weal has played real minutes for 13 games. He has 8 points in those 13 games.

Thompson has played well too.

Montreal doesn't have the superstar forward(s) that allows them to let specific complementary pieces play through issues when there is no margin for error. Julien spent all season playing Drouin more than he probably deserved, but Montreal can't afford to give him a lot of ES time when he's playing like he is and they need to basically win every game.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Actually some players never grow. In fact i think it's more common to see a player not improve upon his first 3 years than seeing a player significantly improve in the middle of his 20ies. Daigle best moments was his first 3 seasons. Same for Falloon.

There's incremental progress to be made in the middle of the 20ies but usually at that point what you see is what you get. Guys like St Louis are the exception more than the norm. Drouin could make some progress and become a Patch but more than that would be extremely surprising.

It's true, some players stall. But some don't. You or I don't know the Drouin future. He is improving, just not at a pace most would like to see.

 

[LaP]

Do you honestly think they'd be playing in the spots they're playing in right now for 20-30 games? Really?

Weal has played real minutes for 13 games. He has 8 points in those 13 games.

Thompson has played well too.

Montreal doesn't have the superstar forward(s) that allows them to let specific complementary pieces play through issues when there is no margin for error. Julien spent all season playing Drouin more than he probably deserved, but Montreal can't afford to give him a lot of ES time when he's playing like he is and they need to basically win every game.

Bookmark this and let's see how playing Weal and Thompson will work in the next 2 years. I bet you it wont work for more than a year.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Bookmark this and let's see how playing Weal and Thompson will work in the next 2 years. I bet you it wont work for more than a year.

I bet you Thompson isn't even back next year and Weal is a 4th liner/spare forward next year.

You're missing my point. At this specific point in time, it makes more sense to play them more, since they're playing well. That doesn't mean they will be playing where they are for a longer period of time. Montreal's trying to extend there season for more than 3 games, they don't have the luxury of hoping Drouin has suddenly figured out the defensive side of the game. It may happen, but probably not in the next 3 games.

I don't even get the Thompson hate, he's one of the least used forwards on the team at ES, he's seeing his ice time boost on the PK.

 

[nhlfan9191]

It's true, some players stall. But some don't. You or I don't know the Drouin future. He is improving, just not at a pace most would like to see.

He isn’t improving. That’s in your head. If anything right now, he’s regressing if we’re to believe he’s in the development curve you think he’s in. To imply a player whose been pointless in 20 out of 22 games is improving is ludicrous. He’s playing the worst hockey of his career right now. He’s 24, not 18. The maturity part of his game should be there by now and it’s not. And even if that is fixable, it’s concerning that he still hasn’t figured that part of his game out.

 

[ahmedou]

Easier said than done, I'm afraid. Drouin has done very little to ingratiate himself with GMs around the league. In a trade he won't command anywhere near what Tampa got for him from the Nobargain guy.

Conditioning stint?

 

[The Great Weal]

Not that I want to make the playoffs 100%, but if this guy doesn't step up in these last 3 games, he better be traded. His performance is unacceptable.

 

[Megaforce]

Not that I want to make the playoffs 100%, but if this guy doesn't step up in these last 3 games, he better be traded. His performance is unacceptable.

Silly comments like these are what makes me rue the decline of this discussion forum.

Drouin played great. He set up two goals in the last game with third assists on great passes on the empty netter and the PP goal. What did Turtle Tatar do? Lady Gagaller? Why not pick on them? Why the irrational hatred for this one guy? You owe it to yourself to examine your contorted perspective.

The great Guy Lafleur has gone on record criticizing the coach for mishandling JD. That's a significant fact because 1-Lafleur knows a lot more about hockey than any of you. 2-Lafleur is on the Habs payroll so he's not saying this for nothing. And 3-Personally went through what JD is going through now before busting out as a superstar. You can't get speed, stickhandling and vision like Drouin very often. He's very good and only getting better. Start picking on players who merit it, not on the gifted, talented guys who are going to bring us forward.

 

[ahmedou]

He's living the present moment. Doens't have any clue of what to do or doing. Does he check his own hockeygames videotapes?

 

[The Great Weal]

Silly comments like these are what makes me rue the decline of this discussion forum.

Drouin played great. He set up two goals in the last game with third assists on great passes on the empty netter and the PP goal. What did Turtle Tatar do? Lady Gagaller? Why not pick on them? Why the irrational hatred for this one guy? You owe it to yourself to examine your contorted perspective.

The great Guy Lafleur has gone on record criticizing the coach for mishandling JD. That's a significant fact because 1-Lafleur knows a lot more about hockey than any of you. 2-Lafleur is on the Habs payroll so he's not saying this for nothing. And 3-Personally went through what JD is going through now before busting out as a superstar. You can't get speed, stickhandling and vision like Drouin very often. He's very good and only getting better. Start picking on players who merit it, not on the gifted, talented guys who are going to bring us forward.

When did he play great? 6 points in his last 23 games(most important stretch of the season) and 4 of them were against the Red Wings. Great player for sure. "Turtle" Tatar? "Lady" Gallagher? These guys battle hard every shift and are producing more than him without being gifted every possible chance to score points.

His "talent" is all he has. If he is going to be a head case, liability defensively and terribly inconsistent, then he better f***ing produce. He is NOT only getting better. He played better 2 years ago on Tampa.

 

[Megaforce]

When did he play great?

Drouin has played great all season in spite of a massive initiative by corrupted segments of the fan base to undermine him, as well as mismanagement by the coach.

He played great in the last game if you watched. As I noted, he got what would have been the third assist on two goals. Please acknowledge this fact, as it is a simple fact and I don't know if simple facts are even recognized by the haters anymore.

JD and Domi remain the only Habs forwards who can skate fast and stickhandle fast enough to enter the zone on a power play or other moments that need instant offense. Turtle Tatar was woefully slow in the crucial overtime in Carolina that cost us the season. Lady Gagaller was personally responsible for our last crucial overtime loss by being too slow to control the puck on the boards. Meanwhile Drouin, who proved he can win games in overtime with that amazing end-to-end goal in Edmonton, was sitting on the bench. Proof of coach's mismanagement at a crucial moments. Please acknowledge these facts. Take off the hater glasses. These are things that actually happened.

We know there's a sanctified popular narrative that Bergervin is a dunce, Sergachev is the Messiah, and Drouin, therefore is bad. Watch the actual games as a real Habs fan in the here and now, without the lens of distortion, and you'll evaluate events better.

 

[ahmedou]

Drouin played great. He set up two goals in the last game with third assists on great passes on the empty netter and the PP goal. What did Turtle Tatar do? Lady Gagaller? Why not pick on them? Why the irrational hatred for this one guy? You owe it to yourself to examine your contorted perspective.

Assisting to an empty netter and PP goal is this difficult? What did he've done in a persistent basis over this 2019/2019 season.

 

[ahmedou]

He isn’t improving. That’s in your head. If anything right now, he’s regressing if we’re to believe he’s in the development curve you think he’s in. To imply a player whose been pointless in 20 out of 22 games is improving is ludicrous. He’s playing the worst hockey of his career right now. He’s 24, not 18. The maturity part of his game should be there by now and it’s not. And even if that is fixable, it’s concerning that he still hasn’t figured that part of his game out.

The eye test never lie.