Player Discussion: Johnny "Hockey" Gaudreau

[CBJWerenski8]

I don't get the discourse around signing Gaudreau. Was it putting the cart before the horse? Maybe, sure. But you do not say no to a player like that. The Rangers launched a rebuild and signed Panarin anyway.

While Johnny can/should be better, its not his fault that Jarmo has been unable to surround him with a better situation. I still think the signing was worth it (and it almost certainly was worth it as far as a CBJ revenue standpoint) but if we're going to capitalize on his "best years" we better get moving soon.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I don't get the discourse around signing Gaudreau. Was it putting the cart before the horse? Maybe, sure. But you do not say no to a player like that. The Rangers launched a rebuild and signed Panarin anyway.

While Johnny can/should be better, its not his fault that Jarmo has been unable to surround him with a better situation. I still think the signing was worth it (and it almost certainly was worth it as far as a CBJ revenue standpoint) but if we're going to capitalize on his "best years" we better get moving soon.

By the same token it’s also not Jarmo’s fault that he signed a very a good player who showed up in his doorstep wanting in and that player hasn’t been as good.

 

[Napoli]

By the same token it’s also not Jarmo’s fault that he signed a very a good player who showed up in his doorstep wanting in and that player hasn’t been as good.

Columbus, where overachievers become underachievers!

 

[ViD]

I honestly believe you put McDavid to Columbus and he won’t score more than 100 points

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I honestly believe you put McDavid to Columbus and he won’t score more than 100 points

I'll respectfully disagree with you. He's making a plug Zach Hyman a 50 goal scorer this year. If he were put with Fantilli, it may become on the Draisatl/McDavid combination level over time.

One of the big factors in signing a player to a long term deal is accurate analysis of his motivation and compete levels. Looks like Jarmo whiffed big time on Johnny Hockey. It also didn't help that most players have peaked in offensive production by Gaudreau's age. At this point, the contract is trending toward the worst 5 in the league level. That's on the GM.

 

[behemolari]

I honestly believe you put McDavid to Columbus and he won’t score more than 100 points

75ish

 

[behemolari]

He was playing really well right before the new year/Christmas break

And ever since I think he’s checked out. I don’t think he’s playing poorly, but he’s just blending in. Which isn’t ideal either.

looks correct

 

[NotWendell]

How many players, outside of Bobrovsky and draft picks, have come here and actually gotten significantly better? Maybe we should explore that instead?

 

[CBJWerenski8]

credit to Johnny, he was flying yesterday. Best player on the ice

 

[Nanabijou]

How many players, outside of Bobrovsky and draft picks, have come here and actually gotten significantly better? Maybe we should explore that instead?

Panarin, Foligno, Dubinsky, Tyutin are just a few off the top of my head - at least if you looked at their first 2-3 years here compared to the 2-3 years prior to their trades.

 

[stevo61]

credit to Johnny, he was flying yesterday. Best player on the ice

I hope they leave that line alone for now if Boone comes back too. It felt good and the other middle lines could use Boone's help. Maybe even with KJ-Fantilli and they can split center duties and offer a stabilizing prescence

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Panarin, Foligno, Dubinsky, Tyutin are just a few off the top of my head - at least if you looked at their first 2-3 years here compared to the 2-3 years prior to their trades.

Malhotra, Letestu, (Jack) Johnson, Nikitin, Bobrovsky

 

[Forepar]

Malhotra, Letestu, (Jack) Johnson, Nikitin, Bobrovsky

Agree with your list At early times, would add Vermette and Huselius, but not sure their uptick in performance lasted long enough to stay on the list.

 

[stevo61]

Agree with your list At early times, would add Vermette and Huselius, but not sure their uptick in performance lasted long enough to stay on the list.

That 1st full Vermette season created a lot of false hope for me

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I understand the frustration that led to the original question but the answer is genuinely "most players who came here just as they were entering their primes and just needed a bigger role".

 

[stevo61]

I understand the frustration that led to the original question but the answer is genuinely "most players who came here just as they were entering their primes and just needed a bigger role".

Which are the players good teams can find and why some harp on our pro scouting. We've got some good ones along the way but not as much lately. Something Florida for example has been good at

 

[Viqsi]

Agree with your list At early times, would add Vermette and Huselius, but not sure their uptick in performance lasted long enough to stay on the list.

Add to that "early hopes" list Norrena. Until they figured him out.

And on the for-real list, Hejda, Foligno, MacKenzie, and Hainsey.

 

[NotCommitted]

Which are the players good teams can find and why some harp on our pro scouting. We've got some good ones along the way but not as much lately. Something Florida for example has been good at

Florida has done great in that respect lately but if those same players would've been brought into CBJ, would they really have been great finds? They've had their swiss army knife 1C for years, something the CBJ has practically no experience of.

Barkov is the kind of player you can pretty much give any two wingers with some talent and he'll make them look like great hockey players while taking the toughest matchups and zone starts and then when everyone else goes for a line change, he plays extra 15 seconds and single handedly forces an o-zone draw.

The Panthers have done a great job in the recent years acquiring players both through drafting and trades and now they have 3rd line which can help carry some of that load for Barkov. That also puts them in a position where they can have a 2nd line build around Matthew Tkachuk fed like 70 percent o-zone starts against weaker competition. I bet a lot of players would look pretty fine in that situation. And even before Tkachuk they had Huberdeau, they just decided an upgrade was in order there

edit: my point is not to defend CBJ pro scouting but just point out if you want to compare it to other teams, Panthers is not a good comparison.

 

[stevo61]

Florida has done great in that respect lately but if those same players would've been brought into CBJ, would they really have been great finds? They've had their swiss army knife 1C for years, something the CBJ has practically no experience of.

Barkov is the kind of player you can pretty much give any two wingers with some talent and he'll make them look like great hockey players while taking the toughest matchups and zone starts and then when everyone else goes for a line change, he plays extra 15 seconds and single handedly forces an o-zone draw.

The Panthers have done a great job in the recent years acquiring players both through drafting and trades and now they have 3rd line which can help carry some of that load for Barkov. That also puts them in a position where they can have a 2nd line build around Matthew Tkachuk fed like 70 percent o-zone starts against weaker competition. I bet a lot of players would look pretty fine in that situation. And even before Tkachuk they had Huberdeau, they just decided an upgrade was in order there

edit: my point is not to defend CBJ pro scouting but just point out if you want to compare it to other teams, Panthers is not a good comparison.

Getting guys like Reinhart, Bennett, Verhaghe, Forsling and Montour for what they did is fantastic work any way you slice it

 

[DarkandStormy]

Well, look, on the bright side, we didn't give him the Huberdeau contract.

 

[majormajor]

Florida has done great in that respect lately but if those same players would've been brought into CBJ, would they really have been great finds? They've had their swiss army knife 1C for years, something the CBJ has practically no experience of.

Barkov is the kind of player you can pretty much give any two wingers with some talent and he'll make them look like great hockey players while taking the toughest matchups and zone starts and then when everyone else goes for a line change, he plays extra 15 seconds and single handedly forces an o-zone draw.

The Panthers have done a great job in the recent years acquiring players both through drafting and trades and now they have 3rd line which can help carry some of that load for Barkov. That also puts them in a position where they can have a 2nd line build around Matthew Tkachuk fed like 70 percent o-zone starts against weaker competition. I bet a lot of players would look pretty fine in that situation. And even before Tkachuk they had Huberdeau, they just decided an upgrade was in order there

edit: my point is not to defend CBJ pro scouting but just point out if you want to compare it to other teams, Panthers is not a good comparison.

Getting guys like Reinhart, Bennett, Verhaghe, Forsling and Montour for what they did is fantastic work any way you slice it

Barkov wasn't 100% in the last playoff run, not even their best player. Their pro scouting would make any team good, it's not just Barkov.

 

[VT]

Which are the players good teams can find and why some harp on our pro scouting. We've got some good ones along the way but not as much lately. Something Florida for example has been good at

Centers are Alfa and omega. Did we want to opportunity to get such centers in drafts? Except Fantilli not. So, our situation: Adam is still young, Voronkov and Jenner are not top 6 centers, we will see what Sillinger. Johnson is playing winger and not fact he will be a center.

Florida drafted Barkov and Lundell (we drafted after Panthers, and only Peterka has better stats than players after Chinakhov), get Bennett (btw, the most of you did not want him). Has experienced coaches. And still, if the Pens hadn't lost to Chicago, they wouldn't have been in the PO last season.

We have problems but not in scouting.

---
Tkachuk and Reinhardt wanted to sign with Florida. Not fact Montour and Forsling would be good here. And conversely, that Boqvist, Bean and Provorov would not have been better in Florida.

Do we know how Laine would play with Lundell/Bennett if he were healthy (and I assure you he would be, because there is such a thing as the law of acceptability) if he had 1PPG? Or a Marchenko/Chinakhov like that? How would Sillinger play on the third line?

 

[majormajor]

Centers are Alfa and omega. Did we want to opportunity to get such centers in drafts? Except Fantilli not. So, our situation: Adam is still young, Voronkov and Jenner are not top 6 centers, we will see what Sillinger. Johnson is playing winger and not fact he will be a center.

Florida drafted Barkov and Lundell (we drafted after Panthers, and only Peterka has better stats than players after Chinakhov), get Bennett (btw, the most of you did not want him). Has experienced coaches. And still, if the Pens hadn't lost to Chicago, they wouldn't have been in the PO last season.

We have problems but not in scouting.

Not really in amateur scouting, that much I'd agree on.

The Jackets' pro scouting has been rough though.

And regarding Florida, Barkov and Lundell weren't their best in the last playoff run, they're also two of just a handful of drafted players on that whole team, they were not built through the draft. That team is a pro scouting masterclass.

Forsling is a good example of the kind of defender pickup our team needed, instead our pro scouts came up with Severson, Provorov, and Gudbranson. A huge expenditure to get those players!

 

[VT]

Not really in amateur scouting, that much I'd agree on.

The Jackets' pro scouting has been rough though.

And regarding Florida, Barkov and Lundell weren't their best in the last playoff run, they're also two of just a handful of drafted players on that whole team, they were not built through the draft. That team is a pro scouting masterclass.

Forsling is a good example of the kind of defender pickup our team needed, instead our pro scouts came up with Severson, Provorov, and Gudbranson. A huge expenditure to get those players!

Barkov made many things in defense, play without the puck, played against the best lines.
Both are centers and they are very important.
Would Forsling, Montour be so good here? Compare Florida's team and our.

 

[stevo61]

Barkov made many things in defense, play without the puck, played against the best lines.
Both are centers and they are very important.
Would Forsling, Montour be so good here? Compare Florida's team and our.

Thats not a defense at all. We dont know how those guys would look because we never acquire them. Atleast they tried with Bean but not much else.

And who cares what trades fans want or dont, we dont get paid to make the team better, our management does. They havent been so great at adding veterans around the kids