Yeah, even the Carter trade was better than that. Maybe the reason Columbus was able to land Nathan Horton was because the other clubs couldn't insure him and backed out? We'll likely never know.
Confirmed with Link: John Tortorella is the New Head Coach
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Yeah, even the Carter trade was better than that. Maybe the reason Columbus was able to land Nathan Horton was because the other clubs couldn't insure him and backed out? We'll likely never know.
I think you're putting too little emphasis on trading. Howson doesn't get credit for Voracek when he turns around and trades him for a cancer. Likewise, Howson should also lose points for trading away a first in that same deal and thus, not being able to draft anybody.
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That is an angle I hadn't put much thought to. If CBJ were the only team willing to take the risk in 2013, that would explain what I thought at the time was a deeper discount by Horton on contract price (although not term) than I expected, and would also have explained the initial love affair that Horton appeared to genuinely have toward CBJ and Columbus in general - if CBJ were the only club willing to take a risk on him, imagine how that made him feel, especially if he was confident that shoulder injuries would heal (and the back issue had not yet sprouted its ugly head)!
Having said that, however, Bruins' brass appeared surprised and hugely disappointed upon learning that Horton was leaving B's, per the "Behind the B" episodes in 2013. If B's brass were being straight up, that would suggest that B's brass didn't have any knowledge of insurability problem (or they had other contracts to insure). That wouldn't fit this narrative; who knows what posturing Bruins' brass were up to when those episodes were filmed. For various reasons they may not have wanted Horton to think (even after the fact) that they didn't want him, or that they had knowledge of injury issues that made insuring his contract impractical, impossible or simply not efficient, even for Boston.
As you said. Lee, we will probably never know the whole story. The one thing I do KNOW is that I would have loved to have seen a healthy Nathan Horton leading the CBJ the past 3 years...He and Boone would have been hell together to play against, especially with what then appeared to be a big potential RyJo in between them.
I could see CBJ brass falling in love with that idea then (Boone would have been Horton's protege, he hadn't made his splash with big club yet), and taking an educated gamble on Horton. On a team willing to spend excess cash, so what if he ended up LTIR? But CBJ is not a team with unlimited cash or sources of revenue, and JD/JK were relatively new to CBJ at that time (JD came on board in fall of 2012, JK Feb 2013), looking to make a splash in the early offseason of 2013, thinking Horton was a major brick, knowing the insurance/health gamble, but thinking the shoulder was the only big concern and it would heal. They mis-calculated CBJ ownership's willingness to pay LTIR pay of $5M + per year if the gamble failed, and my theory is that they hadn't been there long enough to know better and they may not have effectively communicated all the nuances to ownership because the risk of having some injury (not the shoulder) put Horton into shutdown mode seemed small especially when compared to the potential upside, and LTIR would address any cap space issues if injury was a long-term issue, to the point that it may have seemed a no-brainer to them from their StL days (and other franchises) that $5M x 5 for this low-risk gamble on talent and character would be supported by ownership. They have since discovered that CBJ is not StL, in terms of television contract, ownership $, etc....
I don't have an issue with the Horton deal, if it had ended there. From a pure HOCKEY perspective, if JD/JK took that calculated gamble, I'm good with that.
It is the effects of the subsequent Clarkson substitution (cap hit / contract term / expansion draft) that drive me batty.
Why did I start this post?
We've killed this issue before, and I get more nauseated each time I re-visit it. 
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It certainly didn't appear that this was the case.
You already mentioned the utter disappointment from the Bruins. Seriously, Chiarelli looked crushed. Why would he fake that?
And the reaction from reporters around the league was "why would Horton go to Columbus?" Implying that money wasn't the reason why, that he could have gotten that deal elsewhere. Remember "Green acres" and all that crap?
The Jones Zone
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CBJWerenski8
Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
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Byrral
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I was one who didn't know much about Torts other than his past success and mostly his failures in his career (You Tube videos and Larry Brooks). I remember back when Porty first mentioned Torts was being considered as a possible replacement and when they first announced his hiring I gasped in agony. I wondered how this franchise could go any lower.
After the Joey saga, even though I thought getting Jones was good, I thought we should have gotten more and wondered how long it would take for the team to implode. Don't know how long his shelf life will be but he has changed the culture and mind set of the team. He deserves a lot of credit and his personality and character is much more engaging than I ever realized he could be.
The man is intense and his passion is undeniable. The team seems to have followed his lead this year.
After the Joey saga, even though I thought getting Jones was good, I thought we should have gotten more and wondered how long it would take for the team to implode. Don't know how long his shelf life will be but he has changed the culture and mind set of the team. He deserves a lot of credit and his personality and character is much more engaging than I ever realized he could be.
The man is intense and his passion is undeniable. The team seems to have followed his lead this year.
Torts just illustrates how truly awful Richards was. I enjoy having a head coach that has a clue. I don't know how long his shelf life will be here, but there is no question he's getting the most out of these players.
I have become a 100% Torts fan. Last year he said we should watch what this team would be like after a whole training camp with him. And you know what? He was right. This guy knows what he is doing.
cbjfaninmo
4 those about 2 rock
It has definitely been fun watching this team and what he has done so far. I am also excited about the depth Jarmo is building too. A fun ride so far!
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Okay, I'm prepared to admit it: I was wrong about John Tortorella.
I was convinced that he was too much of an overpassionate hothead who'd do more browbeating than coaching and that was the last thing we needed. But he's done something truly remarkable - he not only said that he's learned better and moderated his style, he's actually done it. He's shown trust in players who make mistakes and given them opportunities to redeem themselves, he's adapted the system he coaches to the players we have and the times we live in, and he's done so calmly and with a fair attitude.
Okay, he still gets cross with reporters now and again. But I can forgive him that, because he's learning from his mistakes and doing better. There are so many people who just absolutely refuse to do that, or never go quite far enough, and folks who demonstrate it and do so well are always held in high esteem by myself.
Good work, Torts. Keep it up. You've proven me wrong so far and the crow tastes amazing because it has the wonderful seasoning of success.
I was convinced that he was too much of an overpassionate hothead who'd do more browbeating than coaching and that was the last thing we needed. But he's done something truly remarkable - he not only said that he's learned better and moderated his style, he's actually done it. He's shown trust in players who make mistakes and given them opportunities to redeem themselves, he's adapted the system he coaches to the players we have and the times we live in, and he's done so calmly and with a fair attitude.
Okay, he still gets cross with reporters now and again. But I can forgive him that, because he's learning from his mistakes and doing better. There are so many people who just absolutely refuse to do that, or never go quite far enough, and folks who demonstrate it and do so well are always held in high esteem by myself.
Good work, Torts. Keep it up. You've proven me wrong so far and the crow tastes amazing because it has the wonderful seasoning of success.
Socks
Stuff and Things Man
Okay, I'm prepared to admit it: I was wrong about John Tortorella.
I was convinced that he was too much of an overpassionate hothead who'd do more browbeating than coaching and that was the last thing we needed. But he's done something truly remarkable - he not only said that he's learned better and moderated his style, he's actually done it. He's shown trust in players who make mistakes and given them opportunities to redeem themselves, he's adapted the system he coaches to the players we have and the times we live in, and he's done so calmly and with a fair attitude.
Okay, he still gets cross with reporters now and again. But I can forgive him that, because he's learning from his mistakes and doing better. There are so many people who just absolutely refuse to do that, or never go quite far enough, and folks who demonstrate it and do so well are always held in high esteem by myself.
Good work, Torts. Keep it up. You've proven me wrong so far and the crow tastes amazing because it has the wonderful seasoning of success.
I couldn't have said it better myself. I was skeptical but Torts has proven himself. To hell with what other people say, he's our guy and he's the right guy.
CBJSlash
Registered User
Love this guy. Was always one of my favorites in the league and he's exceeding my expectations in a few aspects (in particular there's a lot more teaching than fire). Happy for him to get to 500. Great for USA hockey.
We are very fortunate to have him. He will have the opportunity with this team to show that he's one of the best coaches of all time. If he can get 5-8 highly competitive seasons in this city he will be a legend.
We are very fortunate to have him. He will have the opportunity with this team to show that he's one of the best coaches of all time. If he can get 5-8 highly competitive seasons in this city he will be a legend.
I don't know if I ever opposed Torts' hiring - I did say I didn't think a regular hard-ass was necessarily what the team needed. It was a very hard working bunch with good conditioning scores.
That is, outside of Johansen, who maybe did need a kick - and I thought Johansen was perhaps the biggest reason they brought in Torts, to try and salvage the player. What a start it was for him. Joey leaves the team on the road trip, perhaps ducking from Torts. He can't be salvaged and gets moved for Jones (best trade in franchise history?) and the team started to click, with a winning record for the two months after that.
This year's play has more than confirmed it that Torts hasn't been a regular hard-ass. The players seem to love him. He's got them believing and learning. All three of our coaches deserve a ton of credit for the learning part. But I love the way Torts has them on an even keel and playing confident without losing focus, playing greedy, playing with each other and believing in each other.
That is, outside of Johansen, who maybe did need a kick - and I thought Johansen was perhaps the biggest reason they brought in Torts, to try and salvage the player. What a start it was for him. Joey leaves the team on the road trip, perhaps ducking from Torts. He can't be salvaged and gets moved for Jones (best trade in franchise history?) and the team started to click, with a winning record for the two months after that.
This year's play has more than confirmed it that Torts hasn't been a regular hard-ass. The players seem to love him. He's got them believing and learning. All three of our coaches deserve a ton of credit for the learning part. But I love the way Torts has them on an even keel and playing confident without losing focus, playing greedy, playing with each other and believing in each other.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
So long as he's doing this, yep.
Of course, if he abruptly reverts back to Clownshow Torts of ages gone past, all bets are off and goodwill goes away. But at this point that now looks like something that can be avoided rather than the virtual guarantee I'd expected it to be. Which is awesome.
Cyclones Rock
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I was neutral on him but obviously am not anymore.
I like the fact that he's got some fire in his arsenal that he hasn't shown yet. I hope he allows his instincts to guide him and not be concerned with what the media or some faux moralists think about him if he finds it necessary to exhibit some of the "old Torts".
The Jackets have the best winning percentage and goals differential in the league, the combination of which strongly suggests that this 29 game performance is not a fluke. The PP% of 27.7 is best in the league while the PK is ranked a middle-of-the-pack 14th.
Shot attempts 5 vs 5 is +58 which is 13th in the league. Goals against 5 vs 5 is 39, which is best in the league, but game adjusted ranks roughly 4th. Bob's save percentage (.932) is tied for 7th in the league among goalies who have appeared in 10 games or more.
There's nothing that I can find that suggests that the Jackets can't come close to sustaining what they're doing. Given that they rank in the mid to upper echelon among any metric I can find, it would be very hard to suggest that coaching isn't a significant part of the equation. I doubt anyone would have seriously thought that the CBJ had a top 5 NHL roster when the season began in October.
Torts has won a Stanley Cup and it appears that reports of his NHL shelf life demise have been greatly exaggerated.
I like the fact that he's got some fire in his arsenal that he hasn't shown yet. I hope he allows his instincts to guide him and not be concerned with what the media or some faux moralists think about him if he finds it necessary to exhibit some of the "old Torts".
The Jackets have the best winning percentage and goals differential in the league, the combination of which strongly suggests that this 29 game performance is not a fluke. The PP% of 27.7 is best in the league while the PK is ranked a middle-of-the-pack 14th.
Shot attempts 5 vs 5 is +58 which is 13th in the league. Goals against 5 vs 5 is 39, which is best in the league, but game adjusted ranks roughly 4th. Bob's save percentage (.932) is tied for 7th in the league among goalies who have appeared in 10 games or more.
There's nothing that I can find that suggests that the Jackets can't come close to sustaining what they're doing. Given that they rank in the mid to upper echelon among any metric I can find, it would be very hard to suggest that coaching isn't a significant part of the equation. I doubt anyone would have seriously thought that the CBJ had a top 5 NHL roster when the season began in October.
Torts has won a Stanley Cup and it appears that reports of his NHL shelf life demise have been greatly exaggerated.
roccerfeller
jets bromantic
Congrats Jackets fans
More than torts working out for you guys, I'm just happy to see you guys doing well.
You've had a lot of tough years and it just puts a big smile on my face to see the hardcore jackets fans rewarded this year!
I too had torts on the out but boy was I wrong. always admired his passion
More than torts working out for you guys, I'm just happy to see you guys doing well.
You've had a lot of tough years and it just puts a big smile on my face to see the hardcore jackets fans rewarded this year!
I too had torts on the out but boy was I wrong. always admired his passion
If we were to play .500 hockey the rest of the way we'd have 97 points, which would almost certainly guarantee a playoff spot. That is, we play even Hurricanes-level hockey and we'd still be good for the post-season.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-ar...ts-stunning-success-roundtable-154107117.html
It is hilarious how much the national writers refuse to think any differently about Torts.
It is hilarious how much the national writers refuse to think any differently about Torts.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
I look at that and I get the impression that many folks just haven't noticed that he really is showing he's learned to moderate his own attitude more. Neale's bit in that article, though, is right on point and almost exactly matches where I've been. Wyshynski himself seems mostly embittered by our lunatic fringe but is trying to rise above that. Cooper is mostly noncommittal.
And Lambert is still whining, because he's Lambert and being a troll is how he makes the big bucks.
I liked the Lambert part at the end. You have to have some haters to prove wrong at the end of the year.
section 204
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- Jun 26, 2008
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I'm not sure that I have enough optimism in the tank to believe that eventually we won't all wake up and find that the last 6 weeks weren't all a dream.
It's hard for them (and me) to believe because it happens so infrequently that an adult, established and successful in their field, actually makes a significant change. Almost everyone drifts into the future further along the trajectory of their past, and what we are seeing from Torts is a rare departure, both in scope and magnitude. I hope for it to be real, but I'm also cautious because of track record, and I understand why these writers, also set in their ways, have a hard time crediting Torts for what seems to be the most significant turnaround from one season to the next in the last 20 years.
What track record, though? Apart from his year with VAN, as a coach he has a very good track record that includes a Stanley Cup and multiple deep runs in the playoffs.
If you're referring to his track record in dealing with the media... I'm not concerned by that.
If you're referring to his track record for "losing the room", well with VAN I'm not sure he ever had it; a lot of NYR fans would still like to have him and wished he hadn't been let go; and I'm not sure of the story in Tampa.
Point is, in my opinion the deep dislike of the guy speaks to the sensibility of those who feel that way as much as it does him.
Also, congrats coach.
edit: oops, just saw that this wasn't the Win #500 thread, where his past is already being discussed.
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