John Klingberg vs John Carlson

[Machinehead]

This is so true man. A miracle they won Lord Stanley with him.

They also have Orlov-Niskanen, the best defensive pair in hockey, but we'll ignore that.

 

[Midnight Judges]

This is the first I'm hearing that he was good defensively last regular season. Even from Caps fans

He was very good defensively last season. He was like 5th in Norris voting or something, and rightfully so.

/Caps fan.

 

[um]

They also have Orlov-Niskanen, the best defensive pair in hockey, but we'll ignore that.

I wish!

Whenever people put down Carlson Niskanen suddenly turns into an elite defensemen, very weird.

 

[Kcb12345]

He was very good defensively last season. He was like 5th in Norris voting or something, and rightfully so.

/Caps fan.

He was 5th in Norris voting because he led dmen in points. If he was as good defensively as you're saying he should've been nominated

 

[Stephen Gionta]

I voted Carlson but it was reallllyy close. flip of a coin for me

 

[Midnight Judges]

He was 5th in Norris voting because he led dmen in points. If he was as good defensively as you're saying he should've been nominated

Eh, Norris is a reputation award. I think that was the biggest thing holding him back last season. He was doing everything - PP, PK, etc and he also played much of the year with either Orpik or Djoos. Eventually he got paired with Michael Kempny - who was not a highly valued player - and he made Kempny look like a legit top 4 guy.

 

[Grabner]

I wish!

Whenever people put down Carlson Niskanen suddenly turns into an elite defensemen, very weird.

HF Board classic

 

[AD1066]

Carlson is more well-rounded

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Neither is Klingberg. I wouldn’t call either a defensive stalwart, but to say they’re bad defensively is ignorant.

So who are the defensemen that are bad defensively?

Because logic tells us for every defensemen who is above average defensively, there must be one who is below average.

Everyone wants to say that their defensemen are great defensively, and if they are bad they just call them “average”. It doesn’t work like that.

 

[LT]

So who are the defensemen that are bad defensively?

Because logic tells us for every defensemen who is above average defensively, there must be one who is below average.

Everyone wants to say that their defensemen are great defensively, and if they are bad they just call them “average”. It doesn’t work like that.

What even is your argument here?

We're talking about two defenders who are arguably top 10 in the league. There are literally hundreds of defensemen below them in caliber, most of whom are probably going to be worse defensively.

 

[NFKappaB]

Man this narrative is ridiculous. Klingberg isnt bad defensively... being a point producing monster on the backend does not make you bad defensively.

100% agree. I didn't vote in the poll...haven't seen much of Carlson to make a comparison.

But the overall narrative that a high producing defencemen is bad in his own zone is getting old.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

What even is your argument here?

We're talking about two defenders who are arguably top 10 in the league. There are literally hundreds of defensemen below them in caliber, most of whom are probably going to be worse defensively.

My point is that it’s easy to say that hundreds are worse, but if you actually had to list them, I bet a could strongly contest a lot of them.

I think every team has 1-3 defensemen who are better than klingberg defensively. That’s a lot of defensemen, and suddenly the super easy narrative of “he is good defensively” becomes harder to push

 

[LT]

I think every team has 1-3 defensemen who are better than klingberg defensively. That’s a lot of defensemen, and suddenly the super easy narrative of “he is good defensively” becomes harder to push

It’s also easy to say he’s bad defensively. Why don’t you list all the players who are better than him? I bet I could argue a majority of them with you.

 

[hairylikebear]

Last year, at even strength, out of all defensemen with over 1400 minutes played, sorted by GA/TOI60

Player	Season	Team	Position	GP	TOI	GA/TOI60	GF/TOI60	GF	GA
Seth Jones	17-18	CBJ	D	78	1521.38	1.93	2.56	65	49
John Klingberg	17-18	DAL	D	82	1528.28	2.00	2.87	73	51
P K.Subban	17-18	NSH	D	82	1469.43	2.04	2.74	67	50
Esa Lindell	17-18	DAL	D	80	1456.05	2.06	2.72	66	50
Alex Pietrangelo	17-18	STL	D	78	1537.45	2.07	2.65	68	53

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The 1400 minute ES TOI filter grabbed 41 defensemen so that is 2nd place among all first pairing players and a handful of top tier second pairing guys. There is an argument that rank is a little inflated, but he's absolutely a premier defender even if you ignore his amazing offensive ability.

 

[oconnor9sean]

If you want Klingberg to be a defenseman that physically punishes forwards, throws massive hits and makes awesome flips off the glass, then yes, he’s going to look bad in his own zone.

Now, if you want to use his strengths, which are his long reach on the poke check, his superb skating and the fact that he might be the most creative defenseman in the league at finding the soft spot in the forecheck and getting the puck out of the zone, then Klingberg will appear fantastic in his own zone.

 

[sr edler]

But the overall narrative that a high producing defencemen is bad in his own zone is getting old.

I’ve seen Klingberg in his own zone and he’s looked kinda lost at times. My judgement on his defense has zero to do with his offense. I’m not saying he’s outright bad defensively, I’m saying he’s not great.

Carlson showed in last years playoffs he could handle high pressure situations and come out on top.