Proposal: John Davidson

[SuperGenius]

Thanks to the first bolded.

Yes, to the second bolded

Bob was still an RFA.

I argued ad nauseam over the summer as to why Johansen should have been signed to a 6 year deal. Not going to revisit it now beyond this brief cap analysis.

I just look at it this way. Had he been signed to a 6 year at $6.5 per, we'd be looking at this:

2015-16, 16-17,17-18,18-19,19-20 at $6.5 million for Johansen.

Now we're looking at

15-16...............$3 million
16-17 ..............$6 million
17-18...............$8 million minimum
18-19 on.............?????????????????

Even if he resigns with the Jackets, his salary will likely throw a wrench in the salary cap starting in 17-18 where a long term deal would have delayed that unitl 2020-21. 3 years of potential cap issues which could have been avoided.

I know Bob was an RFA, but in his last year of RFA, he signed a lucrative deal. You're suggesting Joey will force aribitration then walk once UFA hits. The same suggestion could have been made about Bob. I don't think it's safe to assume Joey's going to walk based on the negotiation or his present contract. It could just as easily work out fine and he ends up with the max deal to be a member of the CBJ into his early 30s.

You're also assuming this kind of long term deal was not offered or that if it was, Joey would've signed it. Perhaps Joey's camp wanted the shorter deal so he could get more sooner than later. I don't want to keep rehashing this, but there's far too little we know to intelligently predict anything about the future.

CBJ lack wing prospects, the guys that score..

CBJ need depth and organization.... depth is what Detroit thrives on...

Did Detroit get this depth and veteran leadership in less than 3 years? Did it magically fall out of the sky or did it take some time and suffering to get to that point?

 

[MAHJ71]

The honeymoon is definitely over. I'll give him next season though.

 

[blahblah]

Did Detroit get this depth and veteran leadership in less than 3 years? Did it magically fall out of the sky or did it take some time and suffering to get to that point?

Meh, why bother? This team has more depth than it ever has. The depth is pretty good as well.

I have no idea what the obsession is with Detroit, but whatever. When you are winning at the pro level it's far easier to be a lot more patient with your prospects. If Detroit was sitting last in the conference for their third or fourth straight year, I wonder how patient their FO would be then.

Robert is just throwing out conventional wisdom.

 

[Nordique]

Simple question, is CBJ President John Davidson giving you as a fan what you expected?

Last season, yes.

This season, undeterminable due to injuries.


Yes, go ahead and call me an apologist.

 

[Jackets16]

IMO, you judge a GM or a President based on where you were, where you are now, and where you are going. If you think we are in worse shape now and our future doesn't look good, then I really don't know what to say.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

He's done a good job, all things considered. When will this witch hunt end?

 

[alphafox]

He's done a good job, all things considered. When will this witch hunt end?

Next season. This board devolves pretty badly due to the Jekyll and Hyde nature of the team, but usually settles back down in the offseason.

 

[CoachWithNoTeam]

This is the second post in which I've seen someone lump center prospects in with wings.

Rychel, Milano, Bjorkstrand, Dano have all spent more time at wing than at center in the last few years. Dano and Bjorkstrand played center at WJC but have mostly been used at wing. As far as I know, Milano or Rychel havent played center hardly at all. A case could be made for Dano, but last year he was on Chaput's wing and this year it seems like he has been on Tynan's wing, except when he has been up here, on the wing. I don't deny that he can play center, I just expect him to continue to play wing more.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

He's done a good job, all things considered. When will this witch hunt end?

LOL I knew someone would get that pic. I mean, it only required like 3 leaps of logic (4-5 to relate it to your comment.)

 

[Dr. Fire]

JD has done fine. He has taken a very deliberate approach to building a team. Certainly the Horton situation, and the hard to imagine amount of injuries have derailed, or rather, set things back a bit this season.

I think that it is natural for their to be disappointment this season, and I also think people are starting to get impatient.

I am taking the approach that the guy knows what he is doing, and sooner rather than later we will be a contender.

 

[CAMSANITY]

Personally, I like the legitimacy that JD has brought to our organization. I feel like we aren't considered a joke by the league anymore. I believe in the direction we are going and I think next year we are going to get the team we deserve to see on the ice.

 

[CBJSlash]

Personally, I like the legitimacy that JD has brought to our organization. I feel like we aren't considered a joke by the league anymore. I believe in the direction we are going and I think next year we are going to get the team we deserve to see on the ice.

+1

Sometimes you get kicked in the balls.

 

[blahblah]

Rychel, Milano, Bjorkstrand, Dano have all spent more time at wing than at center in the last few years. Dano and Bjorkstrand played center at WJC but have mostly been used at wing.

When HF is grading our prospects they use their criteria. There are player in that list they don't consider wing. You need that context to form an intelligent debate with who is grading our system. It doesn't matter how they are used right now, it matters what HF considers their position.

Frankly I don't give a crap either way, but you keep ignoring the key part of the comment "wing". Milano is our elite top end forward in the system, but HF considers him a center prospect so it screws with their grade. Dano is also still considered by them as center prospects.

Did that help or are you still going to to insist on changing the context of the conversation mid-stream so that you are talking about one thing and others are talking about something totally different?

 

[CBJx614]

When HF is grading our prospects they use their criteria. There are player in that list they don't consider wing. You need that context to form an intelligent debate with who is grading our system. It doesn't matter how they are used right now, it matters what HF considers their position.

Frankly I don't give a crap either way, but you keep ignoring the key part of the comment "wing". Milano is our elite top end forward in the system, but HF considers him a center prospect so it screws with their grade. Dano is also still considered by them as center prospects.

Did that help or are you still going to to insist on changing the context of the conversation mid-stream so that you are talking about one thing and others are talking about something totally different?

Why does it matt what HF labels them? They're not playing wing. . So HF can label them whatever they want it doesnt make it true.

 

[blahblah]

Why does it matt what HF labels them? They're not playing wing. . So HF can label them whatever they want it doesnt make it true.

Did you actually read what I posted? The conversation started with Robert saying we were ranked 10th (by HF), weak at wing. It matters because people started arguing and throw out prospects that HF considers center prospects.

Here's the problem. I don't give a flying **** about the conversation as a whole. But having said that if someone is going to debate something, don't change the ****ing narrative mid-stream.

I haven't seen anything to even suggest that HF is capable of providing a reasonable grade for team and their prospects. They seem almost like a collection of bloggers. That's not a bad thing; but people like Robert really shouldn't be using them as an authoritative source. A couple of their contributors have been bloggers in which I can write a comprehensive article as the blogger really isn't even following the team. They aren't even following the players, they are just quoting stats. Most of the scouting reports haven't been updated since they were drafted; just a little yearly update that goes over their stats. But once again; if you are going to debate their grades debate it from their point of reference and not create your own. It's like debating the taste of Coke by citing a taste test of Pepsi. Not the greatest of analogies, but I'm sure you get the point.

Having said that, the draft year of 2013 looks a bit better than 2014 at this point. 2014 looks down over quite a few previous years. Not sure if it was just the draft year, as I haven't bothered to look much into it. After Milano, we've got a pretty good defensive d-man that we might seen in the NHL by the time he's 24 or 25. After that.... Nothing really stands out to me. A lot of projects in that draft year. Not sure what that says about our FO, if anything. Just a down year or have they seen something in a couple of these players that doesn't seem immediately apparent? It will be fun to see a couple get ELC's so I can see them in camp.

 

[CoachWithNoTeam]

Why does it matt what HF labels them? They're not playing wing. . So HF can label them whatever they want it doesnt make it true.

This is what I was going to say. This is the first anyone has brought up HF's grading criteria, so I don't think I changed the subject at all, blahblah. I don't really care how HF's writers rank any of our players. Or if they list Milano as a center even though he has spent almost all, if not 100% of his last two seasons at wing.

The original thing I was responding to was Robert saying that we need scoring wing prospects, so I was saying what I think about our prospects who have been playing wing... This whole conversation is about whether JD and the new FO has done a good job. I'm in the crowd that thinks this year is a slight abberation, but that the future is bright. A bad loss to Buffalo in february may make things look worse but whatever. The team has some work to do but I agree with more moves this front office has made than ones in the past.

JD's major move was bringing in his guy Jarmo before the 2013 draft. Now, that draft is looking like the best in our franchise (and obviously should be, considering we had more 1sts than we ever had). Outside of that, he's pretty much responsible for bringing integrity to the organization, and I believe he has done that. He doesnt get an A+ or anything but I think that the future of the organization is looking as bright as it ever has.

Edit: I stand corrected, Robert did mention us being 10th by HFs criteria a couple pages back. But that doesn't change the fact that I think we are strong at that position going forward.

 

[blahblah]

This is what I was going to say. This is the first anyone has brought up HF's grading criteria, so I don't think I changed the subject at all, blahblah.

/sigh

Page 1, look at Slightly's response to Robert and then follow the breadcrumbs. Robert is talking wings from a HF criteria perspective and you keep talking about.. well.. whatever criteria you feel like using at that moment in time. The criteria that matters is what the FO considers them, not how they are being used now. We know roles can be dictated by team compositions.

 

[CoachWithNoTeam]

/sigh

Page 1, look at Slightly's response to Robert and then follow the breadcrumbs. Robert is talking wings from a HF criteria perspective and you keep talking about.. well.. whatever criteria you feel like using at that moment in time. The criteria that matters is what the FO considers them, not how they are being used now. We know roles can be dictated by team compositions.

Yep, I corrected myself. I see that it was briefly mentioned that HF ranks us weak on wing. My response to that would be that we shouldnt take too much stock in them ruling us weak at wing, when they label people centers that are clearly wing... I would hope that the man, whom you decided to speak for, is willing to see that Milano and Dano are 1st round quality scoring wings, but I will wait for his response before passing judgement.

My criteria for judging the quality of a player is based on the eyeball test, their production relative to their age size and league, and whatever else I feel like using at that moment in time. Pretty much the same as HF's criteria, probably.

Anyway, to bring the conversation back to JD, I think the staff that he put in place, that brought in the players in our organization, have built us a strong organizational depth chart, built around a core that is 19-23 years old. I am pleased with the way things look.

 

[stevo61]

well Our center prospect who never really plays center (buts HF says hes a center so it must be right) Milano had 4 points tonight which brings up his ppg pace to 1.45 plus our WHL winger leads the league in goals with 46 and PPG with 1.8. Then we also have an AHL rookie who is tied for 5th in points among rookies. I think our wings are alright.

 

[db2011]

Team is not remarkably different from a xGMSH team. Anyone who wants to give the current FO high marks is either generous, optimistic, or both. No harm in that, but until im shown hard and clear evidence that we aren't where we'd be anyway, this FO is no different than any other untested, long-leashed management team.

Come on, fans, have some standards

 

[Cyclones Rock]

delete

 

[niflheim]

Sorry, who knows when expires JK and JD contract?

 

[Jackets16]

My opinion will change if he keeps the GM and HC even if they continue to perform poorly over the next couple of years.

 

[BluejacketNut]

JD chose JK as GM

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Sorry, who knows when expires JK and JD contract?

I don't know, but if they're long term deals then I hope the team has them insured.