Value of: Johan Larsson (BUF) to playoff contender

[Sabreality]

He should just stay put...for all the reasons listed in the OP. There's a list of a good 6 forwards who could/should go first.

well obviously, but big brain Botts thought it was a good idea to only give him 1 year taking him to UFA. Also Larry might want to get the hell off of this sinking ship 7/1 and provide for a contender.

 

[Dr Quincy]

3/4C UFA to be, constant effort, plays with an edge with positive 5o5 metrics with heavier Dzone deployment, solid at the dot, PK, 14min toi kinda guy.

Does a great job shifting the ice from D to O against stronger competition and more often than not wins his shifts.

Would be a great addition to a Center spine for some playoff dirty work

Whats the best Sabres could hope for...a 3rd? Second tier prospect with similar upside?

Johan Larsson is not a 3rd liner on any kind of playoff contender.

But yes, maybe worth a 3rd.

 

[Onry]

well obviously, but big brain Botts thought it was a good idea to only give him 1 year taking him to UFA. Also Larry might want to get the hell off of this sinking ship 7/1 and provide for a contender.

Well, BBB...wisely, but probably not...wanted a 1 year flier to evaluate the transition of his game into Ralph's. They need to sweeten the pot, although you're right..may be too late.

LOG...after Jack and a couple others...is all they got

 

[wej20]

Good 4th liner, Buffalo should re-sign him (and then sign a 2nd line centre followed by a 3rd line centre).

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

Agreed with most people on here. He’s good in his role as a 4th line centre. That should be more valuable to Buffalo than a 3rd considering their current centre depth. 2.000M, 2 years should do the trick and then it’s one less aspect to worry about because they are going to have a ton of turnover this offseason

 

[is the answer jesus]

well, yeah obviously...but considering Botts failed to lock him up, I'm not putting it past him to move him considering the other UFA's to trade are garbage.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if that's the route he takes. He's a terrible talent evaluator.

Totally agree and yet while other teams are making moves to make sure they aren't left stranded this summer, shoring up UFA-to-be's in their lineup, Mr. Bigheaded Genius whistles while Buffa-rome burns.

Next year is going to be so much fun with whatever former winger retreads are playing center and the gross contract they give Galchenyuk over the summer... :puke:

I was just thinking this the other day. The trade market is supposedly at a standstill so Botterill can't find a trade partner to improve the huge void at Center. So wouldn't the next logical solution be to keep one of the two actual centers you have on the roster? How have we not heard anything on the Larsson front? I think the most obvious answer is that Botterill has no intention on re-signing him.

 

[Sabreality]

somebody rescue Larsson please, we just want to see him play meaningful games lol

 

[Sabreality]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if that's the route he takes. He's a terrible talent evaluator.
I was just thinking this the other day. The trade market is supposedly at a standstill so Botterill can't find a trade partner to improve the huge void at Center. So wouldn't the next logical solution be to keep one of the two actual centers you have on the roster? How have we not heard anything on the Larsson front? I think the most obvious answer is that Botterill has no intention on re-signing him.

Yeah, I don't see how there hasn't been any info regarding a signing, especially considering the dearth of center talent on the roster. Seems like a nobrainer. Or Botts really believes he can sign someone else this summer, Cozens will be ready next year, Mitts will make a profound jump and his sites are on re-signing Lazar instead.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Johan Larsson is not a 3rd liner on any kind of playoff contender.

But yes, maybe worth a 3rd.

Any playoff team would love to have Larsson in their bottom 6. The guy eats defensive zone starts against quality opponents and shits out plus possession metrics. His ability to (a) retrieve the puck; (b) get it up ice; and (c) cycle like hell is excellent. Even if he walks this summer, I'm keeping that over a late 3rd.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Any playoff team would love to have Larsson in their bottom 6. The guy eats defensive zone starts against quality opponents and ****s out plus possession metrics. His ability to (a) retrieve the puck; (b) get it up ice; and (c) cycle like hell is excellent. Even if he walks this summer, I'm keeping that over a late 3rd.

4th line? Maybe. What contender has a worse C on their 3rd line?

Is Larsson an upgrade on Bozak? Eller? Coyle?

Even if you want that "type" of "eat d zone starts and still produce good metrics" a guy like Blueger in Pitt is superior.

I totally agree that there are teams that would give an asset for him as a 4th line C, but no.. he's not a 3rd line center on a contending team.

 

[Chainshot]

Yeah, I don't see how there hasn't been any info regarding a signing, especially considering the dearth of center talent on the roster. Seems like a nobrainer. Or Botts really believes he can sign someone else this summer, Cozens will be ready next year, Mitts will make a profound jump and his sites are on re-signing Lazar instead.

You’ve used the words no brainer and then pointed out a whole bunch of overly optimistic expectations for players that they easily might not reach. Clearly Jason’s insidious influence has started to get to you. I suggest detoxing by watching other teams.

 

[Sabreality]

You’ve used the words no brainer and then pointed out a whole bunch of overly optimistic expectations for players that they easily might not reach. Clearly Jason’s insidious influence has started to get to you. I suggest detoxing by watching other teams.

haha no, I don't believe that those things will happen...but we know Botts just might making Larry an afterthought for him.

 

[Chainshot]

haha no, I don't believe that those things will happen...but we know Botts just might making Larry an afterthought for him.

After three years of seeing what Jason thinks is and is not an NHL center? I’m ready for Jason to be an afterthought.

 

[tsujimoto74]

4th line? Maybe. What contender has a worse C on their 3rd line?

Is Larsson an upgrade on Bozak? Eller? Coyle?

Even if you want that "type" of "eat d zone starts and still produce good metrics" a guy like Blueger in Pitt is superior.

I totally agree that there are teams that would give an asset for him as a 4th line C, but no.. he's not a 3rd line center on a contending team.

IMO, yes, yes, and isn't Coyle a RW?

 

[wej20]

IMO, yes, yes, and isn't Coyle a RW?

Eller has already scored 32 points this season, will probably finish with 50 or close to it. Bozak's on pace for 40 as is Coyle.

I like Larsson, seems like a real pain to play against but he's on pace for 20 points. A player who'll give you a solid 12 minutes on your 4th line plus be a regular on your PK.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Think he could get a third for sure.
Honestly think the sabres should resign him though.

 

[wej20]

Think he could get a third for sure.
Honestly think the sabres should resign him though.

Definitely think they should re-sign him, they need to get some better depth as you can't have Johan Larrsson being your 6th forward in both EV TOI/GP and TOI/GP.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Eller has already scored 32 points this season, will probably finish with 50 or close to it. Bozak's on pace for 40 as is Coyle.

I like Larsson, seems like a real pain to play against but he's on pace for 20 points. A player who'll give you a solid 12 minutes on your 4th line plus be a regular on your PK.

You're completely ignoring how those guys are used compared to Larsson. Larsson starts a lot more ES shifts in the defensive zone and gets 0 PP minutes. Also, his most offensively gifted regular linemate is Kyle Okposo. He actually showed good chemistry with Skinner over a handful of games when the lines were juggled because of injuries and put up a good stretch of points, but Kreuger hasn't gone back to that for whatever reason.

E: Comparing to Bozak and Eller. I have no problem ceding Coyle is better, though, again, I always thought of him more as a winger than a center.

 

[wej20]

You're completely ignoring how those guys are used compared to Larsson. Larsson starts a lot more ES shifts in the defensive zone and gets 0 PP minutes. Also, his most offensively gifted regular linemate is Kyle Okposo. He actually showed good chemistry with Skinner over a handful of games when the lines were juggled because of injuries and put up a good stretch of points, but Kreuger hasn't gone back to that for whatever reason.

E: Comparing to Bozak and Eller. I have no problem ceding Coyle is better, though, again, I always thought of him more as a winger than a center.

There is a reason he gets 0 PP minutes though. Larsson's a good 4th liner but I don't see him working on a 3rd line as he doesn't provide enough offense.

 

[Shnooks]

Buffalo needs to re-sign him. He's the only functional C we have behind Eichel on this roster.

He's been here long enough. It's time for new blood throughout the roster.

And he should be replaced next year by Rasmus Asplund.

The hope should be Eichel, Mittelstadt, Cozens, Asplund down the middle next year...best case scenario, but unlikely.

 

[Dr Quincy]

You're completely ignoring how those guys are used compared to Larsson. Larsson starts a lot more ES shifts in the defensive zone and gets 0 PP minutes. Also, his most offensively gifted regular linemate is Kyle Okposo. He actually showed good chemistry with Skinner over a handful of games when the lines were juggled because of injuries and put up a good stretch of points, but Kreuger hasn't gone back to that for whatever reason.

E: Comparing to Bozak and Eller. I have no problem ceding Coyle is better, though, again, I always thought of him more as a winger than a center.

I don't think anyone is ignoring how these guys are used. But I think just focusing on defensive zone starts is a really misleading way to look at a player's worth.

Everyone admits that Larsson is good on faceoffs, gets tough assignments and posts good possession metrics on a bad team. But teams that win in the playoffs get 30 or more points from their 3rd line centers. They just do. You can't roll out 2 scoring lines and 2 nonscoring lines and beat the best teams in the league.... Try to find a recent Cup winning team that had a #3 C that had less than 30 pts: Bozak- 38, Eller-38, Bonino- 37, Vermette-38, Stoll-27,

And the defensive zone start thing is a bit misleading. BUF isn't a good possession team, so they are going to have more defensive zone starts as is.

Now factor in that Eichel is at best "ok" defensively and by a huge margin the best offensive center on the team... he's going to get the bulk of OZ starts. BUF's other C options like Rodrigues/Johansson aren't guys you are going to give tough assignments to and you'll want to feed them as much OZ starts as possible. That leaves by default Larsson and Girgensons to do the DZ starts. They aren't too good offensively and they can do defense way better than MoJo and Rodrigues.

But for the good teams, you have guys like ROR and Bergeron et al who can play in any situation so they don't have to be fed OZ starts and can take DZ starts. Those teams don't need Larsson to take tough matchups because they'd rather have ROR or Bergeron on the ice a lot, even against top lines, than they would to have Larsson on the ice.

As a 4th line guy to throw out there and not get killed when the 3 scoring lines need a break ... absolutely there are playoff teams that can use him.

PS- And Coyle has taken pretty much the same # of faceoffs this year as Larsson. His linemates have fluctuated a lot during the year but most of the time he's been the center on the 3rd line with guys like Heinen, Bjork, Debrusk and Ritchie as his linemates.

 

[wej20]

He's been here long enough. It's time for new blood throughout the roster.

And he should be replaced next year by Rasmus Asplund.

The hope should be Eichel, Mittelstadt, Cozens, Asplund down the middle next year...best case scenario, but unlikely.

I think that's a recipe for another bad season for Buffalo. Desperately need a legit 2nd line centre. If they can't get one then maybe target a guy like Haula/Pageau/Soderberg, someone who is at least a good 3rd line centre.