Jimmy Carson... Why did his career never take off?

[vadim sharifijanov]

honest question: do we know that jimmy carson was some smart guy who educated himself and made piles of money?

i mean, as opposed to some chl guy who didn’t go to college and waltzed into a corner office in daddy’s firm (or daddy’s golf buddy’s firm, or whatever) after he retired because hockey players were mean to him?

i honestly don’t know one way or the other. but i always assumed it was the latter, and that is def how ppl used to talk about jimmy carson back in the day.

 

[Jumptheshark]

honest question: do we know that jimmy carson was some smart guy who educated himself and made piles of money?

i mean, as opposed to some chl guy who didn’t go to college and waltzed into a corner office in daddy’s firm (or daddy’s golf buddy’s firm, or whatever) after he retired because hockey players were mean to him?

i honestly don’t know one way or the other. but i always assumed it was the latter, and that is def how ppl used to talk about jimmy carson back in the day.

Even before he retired he knew he was going to be involved in financial planning and other things. And yes, he has qualifications in the field and is somewhat respected in the field by all accounts

Bruce McNail on on Carson

In a weird way, I knew Jimmy’s heart was not as much into it,” says McNall of his friend, who neither smoked, drank nor partied with teammates. “He was an intellectual, multidimensional guy, read the Wall Street Journal, and so many other players just don’t have his opportunities and interests. So I always thought, deep down, that maybe long-term hockey wouldn’t be for him.

Carson came from a well off family and knew the importance of money very early

 

[Hoser]

honest question: do we know that jimmy carson was some smart guy who educated himself and made piles of money?

i mean, as opposed to some chl guy who didn’t go to college and waltzed into a corner office in daddy’s firm (or daddy’s golf buddy’s firm, or whatever) after he retired because hockey players were mean to him?

i honestly don’t know one way or the other. but i always assumed it was the latter, and that is def how ppl used to talk about jimmy carson back in the day.

His family was fairly well-off, but they weren't in the financial planning business. When he retired from playing hockey he worked at Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner & Smith; hardly "waltzing into a corner office at daddy's firm". He has worked for Allstate for many years now (see https://agents.allstate.com/james-carson-sterling-heights-mi.html).

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

thx. out of curiosity what did his parents do? or were they multigenerationally wealthy?

i think edmontonians talk about carson and mike comrie in the same breath.

 

[Hoser]

His father owned some real estate. His grandfather was a restauranteur. Financially solid but not fabulously wealthy. (Whereas Bill Comrie is worth hundreds of millions of dollars.)

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Dude went to a rather exclusive private school in the Pointes. Probably fabulously wealthy in comparison to quite a few of his teammates' parents. I guess it's all relative..single digit millionaire isn't anything special for some, for others it's a fat cat.

I wouldn't want to judge him as I don't know him personally, but I doubt he's some kind of remarkable financial genius. They probably played that angle up a bit because of the context he found himself in. Within the beer-swilling, blue collar hockey culture some of your teammates may think you're an aloof nerd if you read a book once in a while or read something other than the sports section of the newspaper. Doesn't make you a genius, but still means others may resent you for 'thinking you're something better' than them.

 

[Theokritos]

I wouldn't want to judge him as I don't know him personally, but I doubt he's some kind of remarkable financial genius. They probably played that angle up a bit because of the context he found himself in. Within the beer-swilling, blue collar hockey culture some of your teammates may think you're an aloof nerd if you read a book once in a while or read something other than the sports section of the newspaper.

Yeah, the quote saying he was an intellectual because he would read the Wall Street Journal was rather cringeworthy und pretty telling.

 

[FerrisRox]

honest question: do we know that jimmy carson was some smart guy who educated himself and made piles of money?

i mean, as opposed to some chl guy who didn’t go to college and waltzed into a corner office in daddy’s firm (or daddy’s golf buddy’s firm, or whatever) after he retired because hockey players were mean to him?

i honestly don’t know one way or the other. but i always assumed it was the latter, and that is def how ppl used to talk about jimmy carson back in the day.

One of the reasons for the Paul Coffey trade, to re-acquire Jimmy Carson, was because Bruce McNall didn't want to include him in the Gretzky trade in the first place. Carson and McNall formed a fast friendship and their bond, in large part, was based around their mutual interest in the stock market and discussing business. The two even went in on a race horse together. Carson's disconnect in Edmonton was because he didn't do the things that young hockey players did. He didn't want to go to bars and chase women after games. While the guys all talked about the things that 22 year old guys talk about in the locker room, Carson was reading the Wall Street Journal and playing the stock market.

By his own admission, he soon realized he was more passionate about business and the financial industry than he was about hockey.

 

[FerrisRox]

Yeah, the quote saying he was an intellectual because he would read the Wall Street Journal was rather cringeworthy und pretty telling.

Telling of what?

He didn't say he was an intellectual because he read the Wall Street Journal he said he was an intellectual and cited reading the Wall Street Journal as something he did that was very different than most hockey players in the late 1980's.

 

[agentblack]

well here we are in 2018 and dougie hamilton was traded twice immediately after posting 40+ point seasons because he was going to too many museums in his spare time.

Ha! i was about to say something similar
More things change...

 

[Theokritos]

He didn't say he was an intellectual because he read the Wall Street Journal

True, but...

he said he was an intellectual and cited reading the Wall Street Journal as something he did that was very different than most hockey players in the late 1980's.

...it was cited to exemplify or highlight that he was an intellectual.

Telling of what?

Of how little it apparently took for the people in question to view and label someone as an "intellectual".

 

[Nick Hansen]

I wouldn't want to judge him as I don't know him personally, but I doubt he's some kind of remarkable financial genius. They probably played that angle up a bit because of the context he found himself in. Within the beer-swilling, blue collar hockey culture some of your teammates may think you're an aloof nerd if you read a book once in a while or read something other than the sports section of the newspaper. Doesn't make you a genius, but still means others may resent you for 'thinking you're something better' than them.

Dougie Hamilton going to the museum got him traded.

 

[FerrisRox]

True, but...



...it was cited to exemplify or highlight that he was an intellectual.



Of how little it apparently took for the people in question to view and label someone as an "intellectual".

I think you are making a leap that isn't there. I don't think anyone is suggesting he's an intellectual because he read the WSJ. I think he was saying how different Carson was than others and the examples he cited was that he didn't drink or party, he was an intellectual and he read the Wall Street Journal, all things that would make him stand out from the rest of the players.

 

[Hoser]

I wouldn't want to judge him as I don't know him personally, but I doubt he's some kind of remarkable financial genius. They probably played that angle up a bit because of the context he found himself in. Within the beer-swilling, blue collar hockey culture some of your teammates may think you're an aloof nerd if you read a book once in a while or read something other than the sports section of the newspaper. Doesn't make you a genius, but still means others may resent you for 'thinking you're something better' than them.

The quotes from old articles describe him as not being chummy with teammates because, in part, he was interested in finances and politics. But no one characterized him as "some kind of remarkable financial genius".

 

[Killion]

The quotes from old articles describe him as not being chummy with teammates because, in part, he was interested in finances and politics. But no one characterized him as "some kind of remarkable financial genius".

All kinds of outliers over the years, guys who simply dont run with the pack, loners... Jacques Plante, Bob Baun, Carl Brewer, Ken Dryden...

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

The quotes from old articles describe him as not being chummy with teammates because, in part, he was interested in finances and politics. But no one characterized him as "some kind of remarkable financial genius".

I think people have a bit of a disconnect about the term 'intellectual' there because we've all known people who were into finance and politics and could hardly be described as intellectuals. I mean if you talk about interest in finance and intellectual, you probably should be talking about guys like Nassem Taleb, Milton Friedman or Friedrich Hayek.

Meanwhile I grew up around guys who were very much into finance and then ended up starting their own businesses or going into accounting or consulting. I would not have described them as intellectuals and I very much doubt they would have done so themselves either. They were certainly not stupid, but they weren't so much into matters of the mind either. Based on my life experience, it's kind of a bro thing to do. Maybe it's not the 'bro' thing to do if your dad is working in the oil fields or is a delivery driver, but if you're from a well-to-do family it comes pretty naturally for 'bros' as it's seen as an obvious avenue to money and status.

On the other hand, there were kids who liked to read their self-written poems to each other, listen to classical music, play classical instruments, go to the opera and stage performances. This group rarely got along with the 'bros' who were into finance. I had friends like that, one wrote a play as a teenager and ended up becoming a theatre director, another became a sociologist, another a novelist. This was not the type of kid who played sports competitively.

I think the 'intellectual' tag was slapped on Carson because within the narrow framework of a hockey team and hockey culture..you're looking at kids who worry about hockey 1st and 2nd in life and then girls and then beer. In comparison, someone who's into finance and reads WSJ might come off as intellectual, but that doesn't mean he'd be seen as an intellectual in society at-large.

 

[Hoser]

I think the 'intellectual' tag was slapped on Carson [...]

You are "slapping the 'intellectual' tag" on him, you are purporting people called him "some kind of remarkable financial genius".

In all the articles from the time we've quoted in this thread "intellectual" was used once: by Bruce McNall, in a retrospective interview. One guy, who happened to be Carson's friend and former employer, described him as "intellectual". Not "an intellectual", with a proverbial capital 'I'.

No matter what labels you want to attach to him he was open about not being receptive to the "hockey culture"—if you want to call it that—that entailed boozing and chasing skirts. (I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Carson was a teetotaler, but don't quote me on that.) What you said earlier here rings true to me:

Within the beer-swilling, blue collar hockey culture some of your teammates may think you're an aloof nerd if you read a book once in a while or read something other than the sports section of the newspaper. Doesn't make you a genius, but still means others may resent you for 'thinking you're something better' than them.

Again, the only one here calling him "an intellectual" and "some kind of remarkable financial genius" is you, and that's all I have taken issue with. Otherwise I agree with everything else you're saying.

Well, except this:

I think people have a bit of a disconnect about the term 'intellectual' there because we've all known people who were into finance and politics and could hardly be described as intellectuals. I mean if you talk about interest in finance and intellectual, you probably should be talking about guys like Nassem Taleb, Milton Friedman or Friedrich Hayek.

Who's to say Carson doesn't talk about guys like Nassem Taleb (never heard of him), Milton Friedman (heard of him!), or Friedrich Hayek (... hmm, don't think I've heard of him; only guy named Hayek that stands out in my memory was the guy who owned Swatch)? You yourself said "I wouldn't want to judge him as I don't know him personally". Well bucko, you're doin' it right now...

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Sorry, but you can't say it's me who's slapping that tag on him and then give two examples of others doing it. Especially as they're sounding as if they're giving a narrative of a general perception rather than some secret personal insight. Do you think, given the perspective I have given in this thread, I would have called Jimmy Carson intellectual if he had not been called that by someone else? I don't think the word would have come to my mind at all.

 

[Hoser]

Sorry, but you can't say it's me who's slapping that tag on him and then give two examples of others doing it.

wat

What two examples of others doing it? What are you talking about?

 

[AmericanDream]

All kinds of outliers over the years, guys who simply dont run with the pack, loners... Jacques Plante, Bob Baun, Carl Brewer, Ken Dryden...

Joe Murphy.....

 

[Killion]

Joe Murphy.....

Yeah.... and rather tragic situation... looks to be a rather extreme case of post concussion syndrome, winding up destitute, homeless. Number 1 pick in 86, won a Cup with the Oilers in 90, 7-20 or more goal seasons... very sad.

 

[The Panther]

Yeah.... and rather tragic situation... looks to be a rather extreme case of post concussion syndrome, winding up destitute, homeless. Number 1 pick in 86, won a Cup with the Oilers in 90, 7-20 or more goal seasons... very sad.

It seems that there's gonna be some kind of intervention from ex-teammates for Murphy this fall.

Let's hope so, as his family seems not willing to help.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

friedrich hayek was the father of neoliberalism, our current economic framework. that is all.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

His family was fairly well-off, but they weren't in the financial planning business. When he retired from playing hockey he worked at Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner & Smith; hardly "waltzing into a corner office at daddy's firm". He has worked for Allstate for many years now (see https://agents.allstate.com/james-carson-sterling-heights-mi.html).

i would venture to guess that 50% of the people who work at merrill lynch waltzed into a corner office at daddy's golf buddy's firm.

see themoreyouknow's post above about finance bros.

 

[Austerlitz]

He was from Detroit after all, so it's not as though "freezing cold winter city" was something he had never experienced or couldn't handle

Having lived in both places... there is really no comparison weather-wise. At all. Edmonton is a whole different beast.