Jimmy Carson - Not really a "bust" as described?
- Thread starter Habsfan18
- Start date
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
As a 2nd overall pick, I would not say he is a bust, but definitely below average.
2nd overall picks with better careers than Carson (2000-2004 picks somewhat projected)::
Dionne, Pronger, Heatley, Malkin, Shanahan, E. Staal, Paiement, Redden, Bellows, Lysiak, Babych, Muller, Tardif, Simpson, Spezza, Yashin, Marleau, Beck, Linden, Sedin, Nedved, Tallon, Walter.
2nd overall picks with lesser careers (2000-2004 picks somewhat projected):
Richard, S.Turgeon, P.Turnbull, Lehtonen, Tverdovsky, Legwand, Chapman, Falloon, D.Smith, Zyuzin, Dean, Chyzowski
2nd overall picks with better careers than Carson (2000-2004 picks somewhat projected)::
Dionne, Pronger, Heatley, Malkin, Shanahan, E. Staal, Paiement, Redden, Bellows, Lysiak, Babych, Muller, Tardif, Simpson, Spezza, Yashin, Marleau, Beck, Linden, Sedin, Nedved, Tallon, Walter.
2nd overall picks with lesser careers (2000-2004 picks somewhat projected):
Richard, S.Turgeon, P.Turnbull, Lehtonen, Tverdovsky, Legwand, Chapman, Falloon, D.Smith, Zyuzin, Dean, Chyzowski
revolverjgw
Registered User
Disappointing career arc, but definitely not a bust. A lot of very good players don't have a series of seasons as good as he had, and he had couple of 70ish point seasons later on. That's a pretty productive NHLer in any era. I think it's insane to call him a bust. I file him in with guys like Jim Carey, a legit talent whose head and heart wasn't in it. I don't consider that busting.
To me, a bust is someone like Hugh Jessiman, Jason Bonsignore or Terry Ryan. Highly touted guys that do absolutely nothing useful at the NHL level. Even Daigle led an NHL team in scoring and was reasonably productive at times.
Trottier
Very Random
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
It really depends how you define bust. If bust is defined as a complete failure, then no. But if a bust is a massive disappointment. Then yes, Carson is a guy who let down anyone who ever had faith in him.
mrhockey193195
Registered User
What really happened to Carson after the trade? Why did his numbers start to drop so early on in his career?
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
when all is said and done, those two are about even. Maybe slight edge to Murphy.
Ryan Van Horne
aka Scribe
Trivia time. Who is the only teenager -- other than Wayne Gretzky -- to score 50 goals in the NHL?
revolverjgw
Registered User
http://thehockeywriters.com/what-ever-happened-to-jimmy-carson/
Well, Carson embarked on a new career as a financial advisor. A quote from former owner of the Los Angeles Kings, Bruce McNall says about Carson’s decision to leave hockey: (LA Times)
“In a weird way, I knew Jimmy’s heart was not as much into it,†says McNall of his friend, who neither smoked, drank nor partied with teammates. “He was an intellectual, multidimensional guy, read the Wall Street Journal, and so many other players just don’t have his opportunities and interests. So I always thought, deep down, that maybe long-term hockey wouldn’t be for him.â€
I read a fantastic article on Carson dating back to about 1992, he was very candid about the downward swing of his career, i'll see if i can find it.
basically, I recall, his life in LA was perfect for him. He could do his thing on the ice, and live a very active, social life outside of the game, but not in the typical hockey fashions, as McNall pointed out in the quote in the last post.
His friends were lawyers, politicians and such, and he was an active republican. He had some verbal agreements on his future in LA with McNall and was absolutely blindsided by the trade, and to Edmonton, where his lifestyle simply did not fit. As an oiler, his social life went from cocktail parties with the rich and powerful to "drinkin with the boys" which just wasnt for him, and he wanted out. It took a year and a half for him to be traded, and by then, he just didnt have it in him.
Just seem like his unhappy life off the ice destroyed a potentially phenominal career on it.
basically, I recall, his life in LA was perfect for him. He could do his thing on the ice, and live a very active, social life outside of the game, but not in the typical hockey fashions, as McNall pointed out in the quote in the last post.
His friends were lawyers, politicians and such, and he was an active republican. He had some verbal agreements on his future in LA with McNall and was absolutely blindsided by the trade, and to Edmonton, where his lifestyle simply did not fit. As an oiler, his social life went from cocktail parties with the rich and powerful to "drinkin with the boys" which just wasnt for him, and he wanted out. It took a year and a half for him to be traded, and by then, he just didnt have it in him.
Just seem like his unhappy life off the ice destroyed a potentially phenominal career on it.
McGuillicuddy
Registered User
- Sep 6, 2005
- 1,296
- 198
Holy crap.
"His real name is Demetrios Kyriazopoulos, he is of Greek decent and his grandfather Americanized the name.:
Didn't see that one coming
.
"His real name is Demetrios Kyriazopoulos, he is of Greek decent and his grandfather Americanized the name.:
Didn't see that one coming
.If you're good enough to make excellent money playing hockey at the highest level, and if you're good enough to play enough games (400) to collect a healthy NHL pension once your career is finished, then you're not a bust. End of discussion.
Yes, Carson stuck around once the offence went south in 1993 (he was in Barry Melrose's doghouse throughout the 1993 playoffs). Teams kept giving him chances, hoping that the offence would return to even 91-92 levels. But even before the offence went bye-bye after the trade back to the Kings in 1993, he had played in over 500 NHL games.
Who here wishes they could make a few million bucks, and get a pension, by playing in the NHL?
Yes, Carson stuck around once the offence went south in 1993 (he was in Barry Melrose's doghouse throughout the 1993 playoffs). Teams kept giving him chances, hoping that the offence would return to even 91-92 levels. But even before the offence went bye-bye after the trade back to the Kings in 1993, he had played in over 500 NHL games.
Who here wishes they could make a few million bucks, and get a pension, by playing in the NHL?
Could this be the article you mention? Albeit from late 1990.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1136019/1/index.htm
I'd agree with those who call Carson a disappointment rather than a failure. If nothing else he's a walking rebuke to those who insist that any high scoring forward of the 80s could have matched Gretzky's scoring rate had they played for the Oilers.
Last edited:
Bust might be a bit harsh considering the guy had a few 100 pt seasons, but his overall career was a HUGE disapointment. Imagine what people would be saying in 6 years if Stamkos was getting bounced around the league, benched in the playoffs, and scoring only 28 points in a near full season.
Career-wise, he's clearly a dissapointment.
He is interesting though, because unlike most other high draft choices with dissapointing careers, it wasn't because of a miscalculation of his ability or stalled development. He actually had the type of peak years that you would project a prospect like him could potentially have. But he just wasn't able to sustain that high level of play.
He's the boogeyman for all fans of players who start their careers off looking like a future Hall-of-Famer (And there quite a few players in the league like that right now).
He is interesting though, because unlike most other high draft choices with dissapointing careers, it wasn't because of a miscalculation of his ability or stalled development. He actually had the type of peak years that you would project a prospect like him could potentially have. But he just wasn't able to sustain that high level of play.
He's the boogeyman for all fans of players who start their careers off looking like a future Hall-of-Famer (And there quite a few players in the league like that right now).
More than most realize. He was the big piece coming back in the deal and was expected to replace Gretzky. He just wasnt cut out to take that kind of pressure. Then he gets traded to his hometown and is behind Yzerman and Fedorov. By that time it was just too late and his heart wasnt in it anymore.
I'm not sure those outside of Western Canada, who weren't watching from an Edmonton perspective, would call a guy with his early career numbers a wholesale bust. Even in that era, 100 points was a milestone. Precipitous decline and a disappointing career, certainly. He simply wasn't wired like most hockey players.
Mayor Bee
Registered User
- Dec 29, 2008
- 18,085
- 531
For the sake of perspective...
In Carson's first three years, he was 10th in scoring, behind eight HOFers and Bernie Nicholls. Heck, of the five below Carson, three are HOFers plus Dino Ciccarelli and Doug Gilmour. During that same span, he was 5th in goals (behind Yzerman, Gretzky, Lemieux, and Robitaille).
For further consumption, consider this. Among players in their first three seasons, Carson is 7th in goals (behind four HOFers, plus Ovechkin and Bure) and 11th in points (eight HOFers, plus Ovechkin and Crosby). Among players in their first three seasons who were 18 as a rookie, Carson is 3rd in points (Gretzky, Hawerchuk, Crosby) and first in goals.
There are plenty of other guys who aren't far off of Carson's pace in the last category who don't have the same type of...I don't want to say acrimony, but it's not exactly indifference either. I'm thinking of guys like Dan Quinn, Ed Olczyk, Bobby Carpenter, and so on. There's some long careers mixed in there, but nothing that would put a guy even into marginal HOF status.
I think the focus on Carson would be for two reasons:
1) He was an 18-year-old rookie at the time, and
2) He was a major part of the Gretzky trade
In Carson's first three years, he was 10th in scoring, behind eight HOFers and Bernie Nicholls. Heck, of the five below Carson, three are HOFers plus Dino Ciccarelli and Doug Gilmour. During that same span, he was 5th in goals (behind Yzerman, Gretzky, Lemieux, and Robitaille).
For further consumption, consider this. Among players in their first three seasons, Carson is 7th in goals (behind four HOFers, plus Ovechkin and Bure) and 11th in points (eight HOFers, plus Ovechkin and Crosby). Among players in their first three seasons who were 18 as a rookie, Carson is 3rd in points (Gretzky, Hawerchuk, Crosby) and first in goals.
There are plenty of other guys who aren't far off of Carson's pace in the last category who don't have the same type of...I don't want to say acrimony, but it's not exactly indifference either. I'm thinking of guys like Dan Quinn, Ed Olczyk, Bobby Carpenter, and so on. There's some long careers mixed in there, but nothing that would put a guy even into marginal HOF status.
I think the focus on Carson would be for two reasons:
1) He was an 18-year-old rookie at the time, and
2) He was a major part of the Gretzky trade
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
lacked heart big time and he had an ego the size of the moon. He is one of those players who had lots of talent--but a two cent head
he also never learned how to play in his own zone and he was not a good stick handler
Ad
Upcoming events
-
2024 NHL Draft Lottery Team that wins #1 pick - PICK ONLY ONE TEAMWagers: 17Staked: $19,742.00Event closes- Updated:
-
Stanley Cup 2024 Stanley Cup Champion - ONLY BET ONE TEAMWagers: 10Staked: $17,327.00Event closes- Updated:
-
Game 2 Carolina Hurricanes @ NY Rangers - NYR leads 1-0Wagers: 4Staked: $2,309.00Event closes
- Updated:
-
