Jim Robson Division 2nd Round - Hartford Whalers vs. Victoria Salsa

[Hawkey Town 18]

Hartford Whalers

Coach: Pat Quinn
Assistant coach: Dave Tippett

John LeClair - Wayne Gretzky (C) - Jari Kurri
Gary Roberts (A) - Russell Bowie - Bill Mosienko
Hec Kilrea - Rod Brind'Amour (A) - Trevor Linden
Simon Gagne - Jonathan Toews - Corey Perry
Vincent Lecavalier, Patrick Sharp

Brian Leetch - Moose Johnson
Kevin Lowe - Rob Blake
Steve Smith - Rob Ramage
Erik Karlsson

Tony Esposito
Tim Thomas

PP1: Brian Leetch - Rob Blake - John LeClair - Wayne Gretzky - Jari Kurri
PP2: Russell Bowie - Rob Ramage - Gary Roberts - Rod Brind'Amour - Bill Mosienko

PK1: Kevin Lowe - Moose Johnson - Rod Brind'Amour - Jonathan Toews
PK2: Steve Smith - Rob Blake - Wayne Gretzky - Jari Kurri


VS.

VICTORIA SALSA​

Head Coach: Punch Imlach
Captain: Jean Beliveau
Alternate Captains: Alex Delvecchio, Earl Seibert


Doug Mohns - Jean Beliveau (C) – Rod Gilbert
Alex Delvecchio (A) – Mickey MacKay – Vic Stasiuk
Don Marshall - Ralph Backstrom –Claude Provost
Camille Henry - Ivan Hlinka - Cully Wilson


Doug Wilson - Earl Seibert (A)
Barry Beck – Alexei Kasatonov
Carol Vadnais - Jamie Macoun

Spares: Eric Staal - C, Dave "Tiger" Williams - LW, Stan Smyl - RW, Brian Engblom - D


Martin Brodeur
Mike Vernon



PP1
Camille Henry - Jean Beliveau – Rod Gilbert
Alex Delvecchio – Doug Wilson

PP2
Doug Mohns – Ivan Hlinka - Mickey MacKay
Barry Beck – Carol Vadnais


PK 1
Don Marshall – Claude Provost
Earl Seibert - Alexei Kasatonov

PK 2
Alex Delvecchio - Mickey MacKay
Jamie Macoun – Barry Beck
​

Click to read more...

 

[markrander87]

Wow looks like the key to me winning at the ATD is to shut my big mouth....I've been extremely busy the past couple weeks. Thank you for those who voted for me.

In terms of this series here, i'm not going to bash the Hartford team (yet) but I really like this match up for the Salsa. Obviously Wayne - Jari is an excellent duo but in a smaller draft like this I don't think it has as much umph as past years.

My team is very strong down the middle with Beliveau/MacKay/Backstrom/Hlinka so Wayne will have a tough match up regardless of which line he is against.

Jari is also up for a tough match up against either Mohns/Delvecchio/Marshall.

Outside if the top line I see no real threat offensively.

The biggest gap to me in this series is the Goaltending with Brodeur being head and shoulders better then Tony.

 

[MadArcand]

In terms of this series here, i'm not going to bash the Hartford team (yet) but I really like this match up for the Salsa. Obviously Wayne - Jari is an excellent duo but in a smaller draft like this I don't think it has as much umph as past years.

I'm not gonna bash the team... *bash bash bash*

My team is very strong down the middle with Beliveau/MacKay/Backstrom/Hlinka so Wayne will have a tough match up regardless of which line he is against.

Your team is strong down the middle, aye... except that each every one of my centers is better than the counterpart on your team.

Outside if the top line I see no real threat offensively.

*bash bash bash*

 

[markrander87]

I'm not gonna bash the team... *bash bash bash*


Your team is strong down the middle, aye... except that each every one of my centers is better than the counterpart on your team.

*bash bash bash*

Are you going to address the goaltending match-up? To me that is by far the most glaring difference between these 2 clubs.

 

[MadArcand]

Are you going to address the goaltending match-up? To me that is by far the most glaring difference between these 2 clubs.

I agree, Vernon is absolutely abysmal and the difference between him and Thomas is indeed glaring.

 

[Elvis P]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and predict this match will be the most fun to read.

 

[markrander87]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and predict this match will be the most fun to read.

I'm sorry to get your hopes up but I am still extremely busy here with work so I will be on very little.



Why doesn't Tony Esposito host any house parties?

 

[Dreakmur]

Why doesn't Tony Esposito host any house parties?

Because nobody could get in, since he is such a good goalie and would stop everybody!

 

[markrander87]

Because nobody could get in, since he is such a good goalie and would stop everybody!

.....Because he's got no Cups

Martin Brodeur > > > > Tony Esposito


#Salsain5

 

[Elvis P]

Wow looks like the key to me winning at the ATD is to shut my big mouth....

I thought RB saying we shouldn't compare players who play the same position was the line of the draft. Then I read this.

 

[MadArcand]

#Salsain5

For the carnival prize, for sure.

Having two wingers who can barely hold on to 2nd line duty masquerading as 1st liners is surely worthy enough of that glorious accomplishment.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

I thought RS saying we shouldn't compare players who play the same position was the line of the draft. Then I read this.

Assuming no one else has an RS name, what did I say?

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

I like the structure of Victoria better, but that top unit for Hartford is hard to ignore.

 

[MadArcand]

It's not just top line, quick and dirty look at the offensive lines:

1st line - Gretzky > Beliveau, Kurri >> Gilbert, LeClair > Mohns
2nd line - Bowie > MacKay, Mosienko >> Stasiuk, Roberts << Delvecchio
3rd line - Brind'Amour > Backstrom, Linden < Provost, Kilrea = Marshall
4th line - Toews >> Hlinka, Perry >> Wilson , Gagne = Henry

I don't think any of Victoria's lines is better than their counterpart on Hartford, though 3rd line could be arguable. 1st and 4th lines are massively in my favor.

Of course, Victoria has obvious edge in net with Esposito << Brodeur (though Thomas >> Vernon)

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

I'll take Victoria's top 4 on D as well, but it's not a landslide or anything.

 

[markrander87]

It's not just top line, quick and dirty look at the offensive lines:

1st line - Gretzky > Beliveau, Kurri >> Gilbert, LeClair > Mohns
2nd line - Bowie > MacKay, Mosienko >> Stasiuk, Roberts << Delvecchio
3rd line - Brind'Amour > Backstrom, Linden < Provost, Kilrea = Marshall
4th line - Toews >> Hlinka, Perry >> Wilson , Gagne = Henry

I don't think any of Victoria's lines is better than their counterpart on Hartford, though 3rd line could be arguable. 1st and 4th lines are massively in my favor.

Of course, Victoria has obvious edge in net with Esposito << Brodeur (though Thomas >> Vernon)

That was cute…


Delvecchio is head and shoulders the best player on either 2nd line. My 2nd line is a clear step up from Hartfords. Yes with Gretzky - Kurri Hartford has the clear edge for 1st lines.

In terms of forwards the key in this series is the 3rd lines.

I really can't see any argument for Hartfords 3rd line over Victorias. Correct me if i'm wrong but Victorias 3rd line has got to be one of the best 3rd lines in the League. Marshal is a tier above Kilrea and Provost >>> Trevor Linden.

Mix in the fact he has Bran Leetch as his number one and the massive advantage Victoria has in nets the only advantage Hartford has is his top line.

It just seems as though people put on the blinders with Gretzky - Kurri and everything else is not important.

 

[markrander87]

Does anybody else see having to put Jonathan Toews on a first unit ATD PK as a serious red flag? No other forward are a better option then Toews? That is a serious lack of PK options.

 

[MadArcand]

Delvecchio is head and shoulders the best player on either 2nd line. My 2nd line is a clear step up from Hartfords.

Delvecchio ranked 37th in the recent HoH centers project (which brings us to him playing his minor position, though that's not particularly relevant here). Bowie ranked 44th. MacKay 52nd.

I agree that Delvecchio is the best player on either line, but if he's 'head and shoulders best', then your center is heads and shoulders worse than mine, and your absolutely abysmal RW is barely a blip on the radar when compared to Mosienko. To argue that a Delvecchio can overcome the massive gap at RW and C is asinine.

In terms of forwards the key in this series is the 3rd lines.

I really can't see any argument for Hartfords 3rd line over Victorias. Correct me if i'm wrong but Victorias 3rd line has got to be one of the best 3rd lines in the League.

Can't say I can see you presenting any kind of argument in favor of your own line in the first place...

Hell, using your insane troll logic from 2nd lines: Brind'Amour is far and away the best player on either line, thus my line is infinitely superior (even if I'm slightly weaker on the wings).

Mix in the fact he has Bran Leetch as his number one and the massive advantage Victoria has in nets the only advantage Hartford has is his top line.

Is that even supposed to be an argument? Yes, I have Leetch, a solid #1. Is Seibert better? Sure. But then, Blake and Johnson are better than Kasatonov and Wilson. The D corps are basically equals.

 

[markrander87]

Also i'd like to point out another clear advantage for Victoria:

Punch Imlach>>>>Pat Quinn

What makes Pat Quinn a regarded ATD Coach? He's never won a cup and his playoff resume is very weak.

 

[MadArcand]

Does anybody else see having to put Jonathan Toews on a first unit ATD PK as a serious red flag? No other forward are a better option then Toews? That is a serious lack of PK options.

It's called chemistry and not overworking your guys, given that Kurri is better slotted with Wayne on 2nd unit.

But really, people living in glass houses shouldn't be installing indoor trebuchets. For a mere glance at your PP is enough to bewilder - Delvecchio on point of 1st unit, Hlinka and Mohns stinking up the second unit... this has to be one of the weakest PPs in the draft.

 

[Hobnobs]

 

[BillyShoe1721]

Does anybody else see having to put Jonathan Toews on a first unit ATD PK as a serious red flag? No other forward are a better option then Toews? That is a serious lack of PK options.

I don't know about a "serious red flag", but I agree that he is well below average as a first unit PKer, and Hartford's PKing forwards are below average.

 

[markrander87]

It's called chemistry and not overworking your guys, given that Kurri is better slotted with Wayne on 2nd unit.

It's called not drafting properly and not having the proper staff for your team. Guys like Linden, Mosienko, Kilrea etc.. just aren't on the same level defensively like Provost, Marshall, Delvecchio etc...

But really, people living in glass houses shouldn't be installing indoor trebuchets. For a mere glance at your PP is enough to bewilder - Delvecchio on point of 1st unit, Hlinka and Mohns stinking up the second unit... this has to be one of the weakest PPs in the draft.

You and 70's must have attended the same comedy classes, you're trying WAY too hard.

BTW if anybody is following this….His rebuttal is that Delvecchio is on my 1st unit PP

After looking over the past 5 ATD Rosters Delvecchio has been on his teams 1st PP unit every year.

Is this what you have to grasp at?


Better 2nd line
Better 3rd line
Better defense as a collective group
Massive edge in goaltending
Massive edge in coaches

He has Toews on an ATD 1st PK unit...

 

[MadArcand]

It's called not drafting properly and not having the proper staff for your team. Guys like Linden, Mosienko, Kilrea etc.. just aren't on the same level defensively like Provost, Marshall, Delvecchio etc...

Except for Delvecchio, every single forward of yours is significantly worse offensively than their counterpart on my team. Yes, you have better PKing forwards. It doesn't bloody matter when your forwards are completely inferior throughout the lineup.

BTW if anybody is following this….His rebuttal is that Delvecchio is on my 1st unit PP

No, it is that Delvecchio is on the point. But nice try.

Better 2nd line
Better 3rd line
Better defense as a collective group
Massive edge in goaltending
Massive edge in coaches

Much better 1st line
Better 2nd line
Equal 3rd line, with much better center (and, incidentally, easily the best defensive forward on either team)
Much better 4th line
Better defense as collective group (I don't have a Vadnais stinking up the ATD)
Infinitely better backup
Infinitely better PP

He has Toews on an ATD 1st PK unit...

Says the man who has 4th liner Stasiuk on 2nd line, has no 2nd PP unit that would be even MLD-worthy, no 4th line, no backup, and bloody Rod Gilbert as his best 1st-line winger

 

[Velociraptor]

Says the man who has 4th liner Stasiuk on 2nd line, has no 2nd PP unit that would be even MLD-worthy, no 4th line, no backup, and bloody Rod Gilbert as his best 1st-line winger

Come on now, MA. It's certainly not among the best second units but it is not a complete disaster. In fact your second PK unit would be in the same league you are suggesting his PP is, so its really not all that bad when you consider his 2nd PP unit will probably be seeing quite a bit of your PK units.