Jets v1.0 Offered Hamilton market

[blues10]

I was at the Manitoba Hockey Hall of Fame dinner this past Saturday October 5. Among the inductees was former Winnipeg Jets v1.0 owner Barry Shenkarow. Builder category.

During his induction speech Mr. Shenkarow told many stories of the trials and tribulations during his ownership of the Jets franchise. Many had been know before such as the Canucks dislike of the Jets entering the league.

What was the most interesting story and one that I had never heard before was Hamilton being offered up as a relocation market for the Jets.

The way Shenkarow told it was that Dale Hawerchuk would be traded to the Toronto Maple Leafs and in exchange the Leafs would lessen their grip on the Southern Ontario market and allow the Jets to relocate to Hamilton. Needless to say Shenkarow turned down the offer and was telling the story as an indication of his attempts to have the franchise remain in Winnipeg and his commitment to the market. He would likely be an extremely wealthy man today if he had taken the offer.

He did not mention the year and I didn’t have a chance to ask him after but would surmise that it was somewhere between 1985-90. Copps being opened in 85 and Hawerchuk traded in 90.

Has anyone heard this story before?This was the 1st time I heard mention of it.

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[mouser]

Might get better responses in the History forum, but let’s leave it here for now on the BoH.

 

[ColinM]

Neat story, but I think if there was ever a serious offer for the Jets from Hamilton it would have come to light in 1995.

 

[cutchemist42]

Yeah sometimes you get some cool stories from those. I remember Chipman at something like one of those mentioning getting asked by the NHL if they could handle getting the Preds during the 00s.

 

[HisIceness]

I thought I remember reading on this board some time ago that it was the Nordiques that Hamilton was pursuing.

 

[blues10]

Neat story, but I think if there was ever a serious offer for the Jets from Hamilton it would have come to light in 1995.

Just for some clarification.

It was the Jets v1.o moving to Hamilton under the ownership of Barry Shenkarow, Team President and majority owner of the Winnipeg Jets. It was well before 1995 as Hawerchuk was gone in 1990. Shenkarow refused the offer. Likely why it died in its tracks.

The offer was never from Hamilton. The offer was from the Toronto Maple Leafs to open up the region and allow the Jets under their existing ownership at the time to move in to Hamilton.

Likely many i's to dot and t's to cross to get an arena lease, and more but a Jets relocation to Hamilton would have recieved full support of the Leafs as well as the Jets getting a TV viewing area.

 

[Tawnos]

I have a feeling that if Winnipeg moved to Hamilton in the 80s, they would've been done in by the CDN struggles of the 90s.

Granted... it's just a hunch without basis in objective facts.

 

[hui43210]

Yes I heard it before, the offer was in 1983. It's mentioned in a Winnipeg Jets history book that came out around 2006-2007. If I recall, Scott Taylor was the author of the book, so while he definitely does not constitute a trustworthy source, this corroborates the story.

 

[KevFu]

Just for some clarification.

It was the Jets v1.o moving to Hamilton under the ownership of Barry Shenkarow, Team President and majority owner of the Winnipeg Jets. It was well before 1995 as Hawerchuk was gone in 1990. Shenkarow refused the offer. Likely why it died in its tracks.

The offer was never from Hamilton. The offer was from the Toronto Maple Leafs to open up the region and allow the Jets under their existing ownership at the time to move in to Hamilton.

Likely many i's to dot and t's to cross to get an arena lease, and more but a Jets relocation to Hamilton would have recieved full support of the Leafs as well as the Jets getting a TV viewing area.

I think we can use some logic to narrow down the time frame...

This kind of maneuver does not seem out of character for former Leafs owner Howard Ballard. Peter Pocklington says that Ballard offered to trade franchises for $50 million in cash in the early 80s. Ballard owned the Leafs from 1972 to 1990. Shenkarow was part of Jets ownership from 1979-1996. Hawerchuk was off the Jets by 1990.

Hawerchuck averaged 107 points per season in his first seven seasons.... but if you look at his 130 point season in 1984-85... he was 21 and had 426 career points before turning 22.

Plus by 1985, the advent of regional Sports Networks hadn't yet become the massive boom in sports as business as it is today, and just two years earlier the Devils' rights fees to the Rangers, Islanders and Flyers combined was "only" $20 million to move into the market.

So the idea that Ballard would offer the territory fees for Hawerchuk in 1985 is not crazy.
Free agency was practically non-existent, and the compensation for signing a free agent was your 5th best player.
The open territory of Hamilton wasn't providing any additional revenue to the Leafs, primarily because regional sports networks were in their infancy (TSN was in its infancy as well).

That offer of taking a 22-year old Hawerchuk for $7-10 million in "opportunity cost" is not crazy at all.

 

[hui43210]

You know I just remembered another thing about that book that had the Hamilton story. It perpetuated the myth that the first Winnipeg Whiteout occurred in 1985, when in fact it was 1987. I remember the Free Press pushing that narrative in the age of YouTube and looking like a bunch of idiots.... Which I assume they are since it's the Free Press.

Anyways, that's just to say that the 1983 date I gave may not be as solid as I originally thought lol.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

That would've been a fascinating precedent to set. Waiver of territorial rights (or, perhaps more accurately, not being opposed in the BoG to any kind of relocation or expansion vote) in exchange to player rights? Wonder how many teams would be up for a potential long term hit to their fanbase reach by surrendering a nearby city in exchange for short term player rights or draft compensation. It'd also open the door to outright bribery though, hey we will support your rights to a team in exchange for x.

 

[DannyGallivan]

The way Shenkarow told it was that Dale Hawerchuk would be traded to the Toronto Maple Leafs and in exchange the Leafs would lessen their grip on the Southern Ontario market and allow the Jets to relocate to Hamilton.

 

[KevFu]

That would've been a fascinating precedent to set. Waiver of territorial rights (or, perhaps more accurately, not being opposed in the BoG to any kind of relocation or expansion vote) in exchange to player rights? Wonder how many teams would be up for a potential long term hit to their fanbase reach by surrendering a nearby city in exchange for short term player rights or draft compensation. It'd also open the door to outright bribery though, hey we will support your rights to a team in exchange for x.

When you think about it, the fact that what you're giving up is "opportunity cost" and not real actual dollars, and then consider the average age and average tenure of an NHL owner... I'm surprised more owners don't sell their territorial rights just for some cash, period.

It's cute to point to say the Devils and Islanders and see that the NY Rangers ceded territorial exclusivity for a total of $10 million in the 1970s and early 80s, and say "NJD/NYI bring in $260 million in revenue each year, and the Rangers traded it for $10 million."

But the Rangers wouldn't have made the revenue that the Devils/Islanders did, because they can't play 123 home games instead of 41. They can't sell TV rights to 235+ TV games instead of 82. They can't sell 48,000 tickets per game instead of 20,000.

Long term, giving up exclusivity in a market is dumb. Giving up the market 49 miles away is not very dumb. The average NHL owner has owned his team for less than 12 years. Bruce McNall doesn't care how much revenue the Anaheim Ducks bring in per year, he got his $25 million in rights fees and then got out.

Even if the Hamilton hurt the Leafs by a dollar -- which they probably wouldn't -- it wouldn't matter to Howard Ballard after 1990.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Yes I heard it before, the offer was in 1983. It's mentioned in a Winnipeg Jets history book that came out around 2006-2007. If I recall, Scott Taylor was the author of the book, so while he definitely does not constitute a trustworthy source, this corroborates the story.

I believe and I could be wrong--around the time this happened the following terms were being used

"Would consider it"
"Explore Options"
"Think about it"


you get the drift-

I read a few years ago where the leafs said they would consider it but would still need some compensation as they viewed Hamilton their area

Then you have the buffalo angle or problem--Buffalo is just over a one hour drive from Hamilton and I believe they felt they should be compensated as well

 

[Jets4Life]

You know I just remembered another thing about that book that had the Hamilton story. It perpetuated the myth that the first Winnipeg Whiteout occurred in 1985, when in fact it was 1987. I remember the Free Press pushing that narrative in the age of YouTube and looking like a bunch of idiots.... Which I assume they are since it's the Free Press.

Anyways, that's just to say that the 1983 date I gave may not be as solid as I originally thought lol.

I remember reading something about the Hamilton market pursuing the Jets NHL franchise in 1983, but cannot recall what source it was from. When the Jets 2.0 made the playoffs in 2015, TSN 1290 and the WFP both boasted about the "30th anniversary of the Whiteout." A number of us contracted the Free Press and 1290, and offered video evidence that it did not occur until 1987. In fact, the original song "Everybody Wear White Tonight!" was a spoof off Wang Chung's late 1986 hit "Everybody have fun tonight." How could the Jets have been playing this song in the 85 and 86 playoffs if it did not even exist at the time?

Some of us lost respect for the WFP, since video evidence and articles from 87 made it impossible to dispute it's origins.In fact, the Whiteout was a direct response to the "C of Red" Calgary had started during their run to the Stanley Cup Finals in 1986. The campaign motto at the time was "Let's Whiteout the Flames!"

 

[New User Name]

I have a feeling that if Winnipeg moved to Hamilton in the 80s, they would've instantly been one of the top draws in the league. A top 5 revenue team.

Granted... it's just a hunch without basis in objective facts.

 

[dkitson16]

In 1985 there was a shareholder takeover bid of Winnipeg by Micheal Gobuty which fell short. The belief was it was led by Harold Ballard who wanted to move the team to Hamilton. This from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - May 18, 1985 - I never double checked to see if a similar story appeared in Winnipeg papers.

The book Thin Ice reported that in 1983 Shenkarow threatened to sell Winnipeg within 30 days unless he got a more favourable lease. Rumoured locations included Pheonix, Seattle, Saskatoon and Hamilton. The book also reported that the NHL was in favour of this (presumably a move to an american city) as they never wanted Winnipeg in the NHL. I didn't record their sources but the book often relied on local papers as sources.

 

[Stephen]

I'm guessing it would have been earlier in the 80s when Hawerchuk was a bigger star and Harold Ballard was cooking up schemes to trade franchises with the Edmonton Oilers...

Hawerchuk himself requested a trade back to Toronto around 1990, but ended up in Buffalo for whatever reason. But that was around the time Ballard died.

 

[Jets4Life]

The book Thin Ice reported that in 1983 Shenkarow threatened to sell Winnipeg within 30 days unless he got a more favourable lease. Rumoured locations included Pheonix, Seattle, Saskatoon and Hamilton. The book also reported that the NHL was in favour of this (presumably a move to an american city) as they never wanted Winnipeg in the NHL. I didn't record their sources but the book often relied on local papers as sources.

If this had occurred, the NHL would only have been interested in Seattle in 1983. The NHL never wanted any of the WHA teams that merged. The hand of the NHL was forced when the WHA's presence was making most teems bleed red ink. Absorbing the WHA would have meant putting an end to the escalating salaries of the 70s, since the NHL would once again have a monopoly.

As for the teams mentions, Hamilton and Saskatoon would have been a hard "no" by the owners. Considering that Houston was in talks at one point to become the 22nd team, and the NHL owners were hesitant due to the city being in a Southern US market (this is at a time when Atlanta had recently folded, and LA was losing money), the only viable option for the Jets at the time would have been Seattle.