Post-Game Talk: Jets lose again to the Sharks 3-0

[hockeyarena]

Connor-Dubois-Ehlers and Barron-Lowry-Harkins were tops in xGF%, not that that's the only measure.

Am I the only one that reads xGF% as "give an F %"? The consequences of being a Jets fan lol

 

[Jack7222]

Connor-Dubois-Ehlers and Barron-Lowry-Harkins were tops in xGF%, not that that's the only measure.

Connor Dubois Ehlers
Perfetti Schief Nito
Barron Lowry Harkins
Namestnikov Stenlund Wheeler

Seems like it would be alright in an alternate universe where the team wasn't imploding

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Am I the only one that reads xGF% as "give an F %"? The consequences of being a Jets fan lol

I read it as ex-girlfriend percentage. Scheifele is very highly ranked.

 

[GeorgeJETson]

Am I the only one that reads xGF% as "give an F %"? The consequences of being a Jets fan lol

I wasn't, but I will be from now on

 

[White Out 902]

I turned the game off in the second period and fell asleep. I woke up in the third period and played some video games while keeping the score open on my phone. I knew they weren't going to do anything, but I wanted to be able to catch overtime in case we got lucky. We played pretty well, had a lot of chances, and the Sharks didn't have much. However, there seems to be something wrong psychologically with our team right now. I'd like to think that if we can fix that, we can do something and maybe have a few fun games in the playoffs. But something is just really going on between the ears of our team. I've never seen players with as high a skill level as Nic or Kyle be completely flaccid with the puck.
At the end of the day, I still want to win and want this team to do well. I'm going to allow myself to get excited for the game and hope that the Calgary game next week is meaningful for us. Speaking of Calgary, there's a lot of spiking the football and celebrating of our demise over there. I don't think we're done yet, and I don't want to be done.

 

[Duke749]

Connor-Dubois-Ehlers and Barron-Lowry-Harkins were tops in xGF%, not that that's the only measure.

To be honest, I’d rather have Harkins in the line up 10-10 times over Saku at this point.

 

[JetsUK]

Connor-Dubois-Ehlers and Barron-Lowry-Harkins were tops in xGF%, not that that's the only measure.

To be honest, I’d rather have Harkins in the line up 10-10 times over Saku at this point.

Worth trying, but can't see Bowness changing up his 4th line.

Both Harkins and AJF add some speed and skill over SakMan, but you can't teach height.

 

[Larabee]

A question for everyone here.
The Jets have made a big deal about drafting and trading for players with high character. It’s part of their core philosophy.
And I think they were generally successful at getting those types of players.
So what happened to these young guys that were such hard workers in their early years.
You can say that professional hockey players can become complacent once they sign their big contracts, but that’s true for all teams.
My guess is that they were never held accountable, and just like raising kids that way, it never works out in the long run.
They learn that they can get away with whatever they want, and even if they don’t know they’re doing it, they’re not giving a full effort because there have never been consequences.
Would love to hear other thoughts on this.

The city has a lot to do with it as well, especially if there’s no chance of winning. If you’re not happy where you live, getting traded is not a bad thing. A young man’s incentive comes on and off the ice.

 

[Potential]

2 things keep really bothering me, if Scheifele is a cancer in the room how does all the rest of our top 6 players playing like shit have anything to do with players not liking Scheifele. I have worked with alot of people over my years of work and not gotten along fantastic with every single one and it didn't effect my quality of work one bit . To me we are putting too much blame on Scheifele, yes he definitely deserves alot but so do alot of players, Dubois has disappeared for large chunks of games, Connor has been missing since January, Wheeler is awful, Pionk hasn't been good, and Schmidt couldn't hit the net with a slapshot if his life depended on it . And if Bowness actually thinks playing Wheeler top minutes, top line and top PP minutes and dropping Ehlers to the 3rd line is smart coaching i don't want Bowness here as our coach because that's not remotely smart coaching.

Yeah we've been piling on Scheif as we're a frustrated bunch here right now. You're right about Dubois and Pionk as well.

Connor I'm willing to give some leeway on, as he's very much a streaky player, and feeds off of the energy of his teammates (which is pretty much null these days).

I know Wheeler is also a popular whipping boy here, but I'm also willing to cut him some slack for now as he seems to be trying his best (although I will argue that he should be a third line player at most and his current deployment is baffling and hurting the team).

The sense I get with Scheif and Dubois (and also Dillon) is that they just don't want to be here. I think Mark was hoping we would trade him last off-season after all of the turmoil and exit interview drama, but when he talked to Bowness he was willing to try one more time. I think it's pretty clear he's just going through the motions now, so I wouldn't expect too much from him for the rest of the year. It's interesting that Mark feels that he is at his best when he is mucking and scrumming along the boards, because even by that metric he hasn't been meeting it this past while as so often he avoids or half-asses contact and doesn't fight for pucks, leading to giveaways.

Similar story with Dubois. These are two large men who could impose their will if they wanted to, but doing so has a cost with regards to their bodies, and both have decided that this team is not worth it I guess. It sucks, because they are both very skilled, and when they are on they are very exciting players.

 

[Potential]

The city has a lot to do with it as well, especially if there’s no chance of winning. If you’re not happy where you live, getting traded is not a bad thing. A young man’s incentive comes on and off the ice.

Yeah, I think this is more a 'grass is always greener' type of scenario. Scheif wants to be in SoCal, Florida or maybe Vegas, or otherwise a big city franchise. Similar case with Dubois - obviously wants to be in Québec.

 

[Weezeric]

I’m going to be in Winnipeg and attending the game on Friday and the Flames game next week. Haven’t been to see the Jets at home since the last game before the pandemic shutdown.

I’m pretty excited to see what happens. Either they win and build a bit of momentum before the playoffs, or they stink and the crowd boos them off the ice. Either way, it’s going to be fun!

 

[WpgSteve]

This team has collapsed down the stretch to varying degrees every season sine 2018. They are emotionally fragile and can't recover when things go bad. They have devolved to blaming each other in public now. I don't see how we climb out of this.

The problem is bigger than Scheifele, Bones or anyone else, and I don't think it's fair to single anyone out. It seems to be a team culture issue that is frustrating to everyone.

It's almost over. I for one will try to remember this core fondly. Despite its problems, there were a lot of good moments.

I guess you could say I'm at the acceptance stage of grief with this team.

 

[DRW204]

I’m going to be in Winnipeg and attending the game on Friday and the Flames game next week. Haven’t been to see the Jets at home since the last game before the pandemic shutdown.

I’m pretty excited to see what happens. Either they win and build a bit of momentum before the playoffs, or they stink and the crowd boos them off the ice. Either way, it’s going to be fun!

Hopefully nice weather and enjoy psot game festivities somewhere.

 

[tbcwpg]

Connor-Dubois-Ehlers and Barron-Lowry-Harkins were tops in xGF%, not that that's the only measure.

To be honest, I’d rather have Harkins in the line up 10-10 times over Saku at this point.

I only saw the 1st period last night, and that was between my eyes fluttering open and shut - but I did see the Gregor goal and saw a big number 8, two feet away from him seemingly unaware of what was going on. I'm not even sure if it was Saku's fault there but it was the only image I have from last night.

 

[WolfHouse]

I only saw the 1st period last night, and that was between my eyes fluttering open and shut - but I did see the Gregor goal and saw a big number 8, two feet away from him seemingly unaware of what was going on. I'm not even sure if it was Saku's fault there but it was the only image I have from last night.

Never really imagined that saku maenelaenen is the cancer in that locker room!!

 

[Jets 31]

Yeah we've been piling on Scheif as we're a frustrated bunch here right now. You're right about Dubois and Pionk as well.

Connor I'm willing to give some leeway on, as he's very much a streaky player, and feeds off of the energy of his teammates (which is pretty much null these days).

I know Wheeler is also a popular whipping boy here, but I'm also willing to cut him some slack for now as he seems to be trying his best (although I will argue that he should be a third line player at most and his current deployment is baffling and hurting the team).

The sense I get with Scheif and Dubois (and also Dillon) is that they just don't want to be here. I think Mark was hoping we would trade him last off-season after all of the turmoil and exit interview drama, but when he talked to Bowness he was willing to try one more time. I think it's pretty clear he's just going through the motions now, so I wouldn't expect too much from him for the rest of the year. It's interesting that Mark feels that he is at his best when he is mucking and scrumming along the boards, because even by that metric he hasn't been meeting it this past while as so often he avoids or half-asses contact and doesn't fight for pucks, leading to giveaways.

Similar story with Dubois. These are two large men who could impose their will if they wanted to, but doing so has a cost with regards to their bodies, and both have decided that this team is not worth it I guess. It sucks, because they are both very skilled, and when they are on they are very exciting players.

Some good points but these guys all get paid millions of dollars to play a game, what city they play in shouldn't matter because once the season ends they go off to there mansions on the hill . And if any of these guys think playing like shit will help them getting a trade they are really dumb . If you are playing well it's alot easier to get traded because any team would want you . I could see guys mailing it in if we were long out of the playoffs but this wasn't the case, we were looking to be one of the top teams in West . Honestly i put alot of the blame on Bowness for his lineup choices and who dressed and who didn't and the fact we have changed the way we play. The defense was always aggressive and pinching and now we aren't doing that at all and don't get me started on our PP. Most of us on here can see how slow and stationary we are on the PP and if that's how Bowness wants it, it doesn't work and if that's not how Bowness wants it why isn't changing? If i'm Bowness and players aren't listening i'm changing the players, my 3rd and 4th line are playing the PP. What are the star players going to do, sit and sulk ? Good because now a team that they want to play for will see and say ya no.

 

[Guffman]

Headline should have been:

Jets show no PRIDEagainst Reimer.

 

[ERYX]

The city has a lot to do with it as well, especially if there’s no chance of winning. If you’re not happy where you live, getting traded is not a bad thing. A young man’s incentive comes on and off the ice.

This is unfortunate, but probably true. Personally, I always loved Winnipeg and miss it -- I'd move back in a heartbeat if I could, but various personal factors which I won't get into prevent it. But, on the other hand, I grew up there and I understand that people have different likes and desires. My own personal likes and desires are probably not shared by the majority at all ... but I found Winnipeg to be a nice size city, big enough that you had all the major attractions (for me at least) like an opera, ballet, good museums, excellent restaurants, without the downsides of a huge city like Toronto (which I try to avoid as much as possible -- I really hate huge bustling cities like that).

That said, I'd live even in Toronto or Vancouver without complaint if someone was paying me $500K let alone millions, let alone to play a game. But it's probably harder for an NHL player who lives that life to have that perspective since they've never really been one of us peasants ... they all went straight from being supported by their parents to being millionaires for the most part. Just the nature of the beast since for playing a game you're going to be at your best young so there isn't a realistic way to get some experience living real life before living the dream.

 

[ERYX]

Some good points but these guys all get paid millions of dollars to play a game, what city they play in shouldn't matter because once the season ends they go off to there mansions on the hill .

As I said in my reply to @Larabee I think your point is 100% spot-on in a vacuum ... but when I consider the lives these kids have led for the most part, I can see why they lack this perspective without condoning it. I suspect that this problem is even worse in today's society where kids growing up have it even easier than previous generations (man I sound old, but young kids do have a lot of luxuries I didn't and I don't think they're better for it -- and the worst part is that once they hit adulthood they've got it way worse than I did since my entire law degree cost me less than 1/3 of a single year of law school today and I bought my first house for $100K -- that house would sell for over $500K in Winnipeg today).

And if any of these guys think playing like shit will help them getting a trade they are really dumb . If you are playing well it's alot easier to get traded because any team would want you . I could see guys mailing it in if we were long out of the playoffs but this wasn't the case, we were looking to be one of the top teams in West .

I think that it's likely that a lot of NHL players aren't that smart -- either because that's just how the genetics shook out, or because they've focused so much on the physical aspect for most of their lives. Also just the basic fact that half of any group of people will be below average intelligence, and average intelligence is probably a lot lower than we think.

There was a recent study about how few people have an "inner monologue"; NHL players would be no exception. Someone who doesn't have that inner "narrative" would probably not think things through the way you did and will just do what they feel. So they're not really thinking about what they're doing when dogging it because they're not happy. Also sports psychology is so complex and some people will get fired up when they want out and others will just get down and unable to get out of the rut even if they know they need to play better to get a trade.

Honestly i put alot of the blame on Bowness for his lineup choices and who dressed and who didn't and the fact we have changed the way we play. The defense was always aggressive and pinching and now we aren't doing that at all and don't get me started on our PP. Most of us on here can see how slow and stationary we are on the PP and if that's how Bowness wants it, it doesn't work and if that's not how Bowness wants it why isn't changing? If i'm Bowness and players aren't listening i'm changing the players, my 3rd and 4th line are playing the PP. What are the star players going to do, sit and sulk ? Good because now a team that they want to play for will see and say ya no.

I can only surmise that the thought is even the best players playing like garbage are still going to be more dangerous than 4th line on the PP. But that said, I don't see what there would be to lose since PP isn't scoring anyway and 3rd/4th line guys should be better at preventing short-handed goals against.

That said, I've never coached. The idea has always interested me, but it's just not something I've ever had time to get into, so I can't really speak to the ins-and-outs of why coaches do things. Bones is certainly not the only coach who keeps playing the top players even when they're trash.

 

[Jets 31]

As I said in my reply to @Larabee I think your point is 100% spot-on in a vacuum ... but when I consider the lives these kids have led for the most part, I can see why they lack this perspective without condoning it. I suspect that this problem is even worse in today's society where kids growing up have it even easier than previous generations (man I sound old, but young kids do have a lot of luxuries I didn't and I don't think they're better for it -- and the worst part is that once they hit adulthood they've got it way worse than I did since my entire law degree cost me less than 1/3 of a single year of law school today and I bought my first house for $100K -- that house would sell for over $500K in Winnipeg today).



I think that it's likely that a lot of NHL players aren't that smart -- either because that's just how the genetics shook out, or because they've focused so much on the physical aspect for most of their lives. Also just the basic fact that half of any group of people will be below average intelligence, and average intelligence is probably a lot lower than we think.

There was a recent study about how few people have an "inner monologue"; NHL players would be no exception. Someone who doesn't have that inner "narrative" would probably not think things through the way you did and will just do what they feel. So they're not really thinking about what they're doing when dogging it because they're not happy. Also sports psychology is so complex and some people will get fired up when they want out and others will just get down and unable to get out of the rut even if they know they need to play better to get a trade.


I can only surmise that the thought is even the best players playing like garbage are still going to be more dangerous than 4th line on the PP. But that said, I don't see what there would be to lose since PP isn't scoring anyway and 3rd/4th line guys should be better at preventing short-handed goals against.

That said, I've never coached. The idea has always interested me, but it's just not something I've ever had time to get into, so I can't really speak to the ins-and-outs of why coaches do things. Bones is certainly not the only coach who keeps playing the top players even when they're trash.

Nice reply and i agree with you.

 

[Jets 31]

The Dude may not be the brightest bulb in the room but i still want us to get going, play some fired up hockey and make the playoffs, it's been a long time without a White-out. Oh and separate Scheifele and Wheeler Bowness, it's not remotely working.

 

[Guffman]

The Dude may not be the brightest bulb in the room but i still want us to get going, play some fired up hockey and make the playoffs, it's been a long time without a White-out. Oh and separate Scheifele and Wheeler Bowness, it's not remotely working.

Me too. It’s the last ride of the core. What a miserable way for them to leave Winnipeg by choking away an almost guaranteed playoff berth.

 

[KingBogo]

Some good points but these guys all get paid millions of dollars to play a game, what city they play in shouldn't matter because once the season ends they go off to there mansions on the hill . And if any of these guys think playing like shit will help them getting a trade they are really dumb . If you are playing well it's alot easier to get traded because any team would want you . I could see guys mailing it in if we were long out of the playoffs but this wasn't the case, we were looking to be one of the top teams in West . Honestly i put alot of the blame on Bowness for his lineup choices and who dressed and who didn't and the fact we have changed the way we play. The defense was always aggressive and pinching and now we aren't doing that at all and don't get me started on our PP. Most of us on here can see how slow and stationary we are on the PP and if that's how Bowness wants it, it doesn't work and if that's not how Bowness wants it why isn't changing? If i'm Bowness and players aren't listening i'm changing the players, my 3rd and 4th line are playing the PP. What are the star players going to do, sit and sulk ? Good because now a team that they want to play for will see and say ya no.

Just a quick comment on the bolded. We don't know how long PLD and Scheifele have wanted out of Winnipeg, but I'd guess it has been a very long time. At the last draft it was widely reported PLD was expecting to be traded, but it never materialized. A player in his position doesn't expect to be traded if you haven't asked to be traded. In terms of Scheifele at the exit interviews last season was widely criticized for implying maybe I want out to. Looking at that in hindsight my guess is had already asked to be traded by that point and likely asked again after that. Both PLD and Scheifele had very strong starts to the season thereby raising their trade values, but nothing was done. Chevy had from the end of last season, through the 2022 draft and free agency period, all summer and most of this season to make deals when their values were at the highest yet he didn't. This is not excusing their play, or the poor play of others, but Chevy's inaction and over conservative nature has played a huge role in this mess IMO.

 

[surixon]

Just a quick comment on the bolded. We don't know how long PLD and Scheifele have wanted out of Winnipeg, but I'd guess it has been a very long time. At the last draft it was widely reported PLD was expecting to be traded, but it never materialized. A player in his position doesn't expect to be traded if you haven't asked to be traded. In terms of Scheifele at the exit interviews last season was widely criticized for implying maybe I want out to. Looking at that in hindsight my guess is had already asked to be traded by that point and likely asked again after that. Both PLD and Scheifele had very strong starts to the season thereby raising their trade values, but nothing was done. Chevy had from the end of last season, through the 2022 draft and free agency period, all summer and most of this season to make deals when their values were at the highest yet he didn't. This is not excusing their play, or the poor play of others, but Chevy's inaction and over conservative nature has played a huge role in this mess IMO.

Fair points but which teams competing for top spot in their division move on from their top players when the goal is to make a run? I would think both players would be informed of that plan and would be made aware that a deal would happen in the offseason.

I don't excuse their poor play at all, they are professionals and it was clear the plan was to try to get in and take a last shot with this group.

I doubt either was expecting to get dealt during the year unless things went off the rails.

 

[snowkiddin]

Fair points but which teams competing for top spot in their division move on from their top players when the goal is to make a run? I would think both players would be informed of that plan and would be made aware that a deal would happen in the offseason.

I don't excuse their poor play at all, they are professionals and it was clear the plan was to try to get in and take a last shot with this group.

I doubt either was expecting to get dealt during the year unless things went off the rails.

Yeah, doesn’t make sense to move your top two centres when “going for it.” Just a few weeks ago there was debate about whether or not we should sell the farm for this team … thankfully, we didn’t.

How exactly was the team going to sell trading Scheif and PLD to the fans if they did that last year? We were just all up here saying we should be going all in on this core, but now we’re saying we should have traded them? Why exactly? Them quitting on the team doesn’t have much to do with them not being traded last offseason IMO, especially considering how well they started the season.